Anonymous wrote:Twin toddlers aren't anywhere near as much trouble as a wheelchair, or as much trouble as helping a child in a wheelchair. May you learn from other people's experience and not your own.

Umm I think pp is talking about space wise? I have been in some pretty small bathrooms in my day and there are certainly some that I cannot imagine fitting 2 kids and me in. I've been in plenty of bathrooms that are not the size the pp stated they have to be for code.

Twin toddlers aren't anywhere near as much trouble as a wheelchair, or as much trouble as helping a child in a wheelchair. May you learn from other people's experience and not your own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really can't believe the number of threads on here about handicapped parking. Why is this the hill that people want to die on?

I have a handicapped parking tag. IT'S REALLY NOT THAT GREAT. It doesn't make my life bliss and perfection. I'm not shooting rainbows out of my ass constantly because of it. What the hell is the big deal?

There's two main voices in this fight. Those that absolutely need handicap parking, like wheelchair users that require the extra space in order to get in/out of their vehicle. And those with placards who get hollered/glared at. The first group is concerned because of the increasing demand for handicap parking and the lack of availability. The second group is concerned because they may lose their privilege to solve the first groups issue. Lastly, you have the general topic of fraud, which everyone likes to talk about.

Yes I fully understand that. But it seems to me that 99% of the threads on DCUM are started by Group #3. The fraudbusters. The self-appointed fraudbusters. And again, I repeat, WHY IS THIS THE HILL YOU WANT TO DIE ON?

Because you can save 30 seconds by parking in a close-in spot. It never fails to amaze me how people will sit in their cars and wait and wait for someone to exit a close-in space meanwhile there are tons of further-out spaces in which they could have parked and been in the store in less time than it took to wait for the close spot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I get that. Did you miss where I said I wouldn't use it if someone was there who needed it? But yes, I'm gong to use it if no one needs it. If no one needs it. Let me say that again. If no one needs it.

If a non-handicapped stall is available, you should always use it if you can. You have no way of knowing if someone will come into the bathroom a few moments later that needs it. Let me say that again, you should never use a handicap stall if you don't need to and a non-handicapped stall is available. If you don't need it.

Unlike handicapped parking spot, handicapped stall has no restriction in terms who can use it. If an overweight person prefers using it, he surely can. If a mother needs to help a young child use bathroom and wants some extra space to maneuver, she can use it. If a pregnant woman wants to use it, she should be able to. Whether one uses it or not depends on common sense, not law in this case. Many restrooms put baby changing board in the handicapped stall because if in the rare occasion a wheelchaired person comes in, he/she can wait a little just like others. It is completely different than the handicapped parking lot, without which a handicapped person will encounter great difficulty.

+1. If a person in a wheelchair HAPPENS to come in while I am in there with my twin toddlers, then they will just have to wait 47 seconds. For the love.

*Pee, not per

Can we give the NYT Ethicist the final word on this one? Per in the handicapped stall all you want . . .

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5167453

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm glad that you're referring to yourself as a child, because that's how you sound.
Other children in real life? Yeah, an anonymous forum of mostly adults, yourself excluded, is entirely representative of how I speak to children. Yes, you're right. Good one.

Your previous post gave an example of what you could do instead of explaining to your child who has the privilege of using the larger stall. At five, she should be able to read the logo if it's present, and to understand that other people, even other children, need more room because of a disability. Calm down and give it a try; unless she has a learning disability she will understand. If she does have a learning or cognitive disability, or perhaps if she has severe behavioral issues you are correct, you can use the stall.

If other people need the stall, as I have said 1000 times on here, they are welcome to use it and we will defer. As it is, most people use it because the regular stalls are hard pressed to fit one overweight person in there. When my daughter is in a one piece, she requests help. I cannot fit in the small stall. And that's what I choose to do. But perhaps it was you who said I was raising an offensive self-centered child. So you can understand that I don't give a crap when you say I can use the stall. I will use it when I deem fit, and that means when no one else is around or using it. I'm done talking to you.

NP here - yes, PP, none of these posters are the Boss of You and if you want to run the risk of inconveniencing disabled people who need the stall to make your life that much more pleasant, you can. If you want to teach your daughter that it's more important for you both to have extra elbow room while you change than to respect the needs of others (even if they're not immediately present right at the moment you walk into the stall), you can. If you want to teach your daughter that she should consider others only after she's made herself as comfortable as possible, you can.

What charming lessons for her to learn.

SHUT. UP. ALREADY. Ugh.

That was my first post on this thread. Relax, Doris.

Yeah, I'm sure it was, Felicia.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A handicapped stall is not the same thing as a handicapped parking space, people!! The stall has features that make it beneficial to a handicapped person, but those are not diminished by an able-bodied person using it for two minutes. The value of a handicapped parking space is its location, and it can't be used if an able-bodied person parks there. Pee all you want in the handicapped stall, as long as there is no one waiting to use it - the bathroom capacity is designed with the intent for able-bodied people to use that stall as well. Sheesh.

Actually there more similar than you think. Location of a handicap parking space is only one feature they provide. The most vital feature they provide to people that truly need them is the access aisle and barrier free route. The access aisle is very comparable to the extra space in a handicapped bathroom stall. And the barrier free route is very comparable to the wider door and grab bars. Without these extra features, those who use mobility aids, like wheelchairs and walkers, could not park or use the bathroom.

I think you missed the point.

Anonymous wrote:Think of an airplane bathroom. That's about the size of these regular stalls in the bathroom

Regular public bathroom stalls are way larger than airplane bathrooms. There are state and international plumbing codes that dictate the minimum size a bathroom stall can be. The minimum size is 30 inches wide by 60 inches long.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I get that. Did you miss where I said I wouldn't use it if someone was there who needed it? But yes, I'm gong to use it if no one needs it. If no one needs it. Let me say that again. If no one needs it.

If a non-handicapped stall is available, you should always use it if you can. You have no way of knowing if someone will come into the bathroom a few moments later that needs it. Let me say that again, you should never use a handicap stall if you don't need to and a non-handicapped stall is available. If you don't need it.

Because handicapped people shouldn't have to wait a turn like anyone else? They weren't there, they come in, they are next in line. Is this really a problem?

Apparently it's an assault on all humanity. Who knew?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I get that. Did you miss where I said I wouldn't use it if someone was there who needed it? But yes, I'm gong to use it if no one needs it. If no one needs it. Let me say that again. If no one needs it.

If a non-handicapped stall is available, you should always use it if you can. You have no way of knowing if someone will come into the bathroom a few moments later that needs it. Let me say that again, you should never use a handicap stall if you don't need to and a non-handicapped stall is available. If you don't need it.

Because handicapped people shouldn't have to wait a turn like anyone else? They weren't there, they come in, they are next in line. Is this really a problem?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since we are on a rant here...WTF people and handicap bathrooms. Am I the only one in the world who gets pissed when there are tons of open bathrooms and people go use the handicaped ones?

Yeah, yeah...you can't judge etc. Save the handicaped bathrooms for people who need them.

Why? It doesn't use the handicapped stall up, when a non-handicapped person uses it.

Now obviously it's different if a person plans to occupy the handicapped stall for a long time, or if a person who could use any stall rushes into the handicapped stall ahead of a person who can only conveniently use the handicapped stall.

+1. I'll use it if no one is otherwise waiting for it if I need to change clothes or I have my 5 year old daughter with me. They aren't dedicated bathrooms; they're available. But obviously I'm not heading in there if someone needs it is behind me.

For someone in a wheelchair that needs to do a lateral transfer in order to get on/off the toilet, the added space next to the toilet is vital. Without that extra space there would be no way for them to make the transfer. While on the other hand, a normal size stall has sufficient space to change clothes or attend to a 5 year old.

Um, NO, I find many of the smaller stalls only have room for the toilet and the stall door. I'm not generally claustrophobic, but some of these stalls, you need to stand on the toilet in order to open the door and exit, or squeeze between the toilet and the feminine product trash can, I don't want my clothing brushing up against the toilet and the stall... Add a child into the mix.... So if there is not a person in a wheel chair or otherwise handicapped waiting behind me, I use the handicapped stall for sure, I usually have 2 kids to keep track of and a stroller, and half the time, the baby changing station is in the stall. It's not exclusively for wheel chairs. Once I was waiting to use the big stall with my stroller and kids, the woman in the stall was breast feeding! I really had to pee. I explained to the poor new mom that there was a family bathroom with cozy chairs for nursing in another part of the mall. Just not a good situation for anyone, but I digress.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm glad that you're referring to yourself as a child, because that's how you sound.
Other children in real life? Yeah, an anonymous forum of mostly adults, yourself excluded, is entirely representative of how I speak to children. Yes, you're right. Good one.

Your previous post gave an example of what you could do instead of explaining to your child who has the privilege of using the larger stall. At five, she should be able to read the logo if it's present, and to understand that other people, even other children, need more room because of a disability. Calm down and give it a try; unless she has a learning disability she will understand. If she does have a learning or cognitive disability, or perhaps if she has severe behavioral issues you are correct, you can use the stall.

If other people need the stall, as I have said 1000 times on here, they are welcome to use it and we will defer. As it is, most people use it because the regular stalls are hard pressed to fit one overweight person in there. When my daughter is in a one piece, she requests help. I cannot fit in the small stall. And that's what I choose to do. But perhaps it was you who said I was raising an offensive self-centered child. So you can understand that I don't give a crap when you say I can use the stall. I will use it when I deem fit, and that means when no one else is around or using it. I'm done talking to you.

NP here - yes, PP, none of these posters are the Boss of You and if you want to run the risk of inconveniencing disabled people who need the stall to make your life that much more pleasant, you can. If you want to teach your daughter that it's more important for you both to have extra elbow room while you change than to respect the needs of others (even if they're not immediately present right at the moment you walk into the stall), you can. If you want to teach your daughter that she should consider others only after she's made herself as comfortable as possible, you can.

What charming lessons for her to learn.

Think of an airplane bathroom. That's about the size of these regular stalls in the bathroom. There is literally no room for your knees to fit and yes, it's hard for me to fit in there and help my daughter with her wet suit. You're right, I'm a horrible mother because I'm potentially inconveniencing potential users of wheelchairs who potentially will show up at the exact two minutes I'm using the stall, along with everyone else.
Thanks for the life lesson. Believe me when I tell you your argument means nothing to me because I have eyes and ears and see that I'm inconveniencing no one but people like you who will be offended at made up issues. I hope you're not teaching your children to be offended at everything under the sun.

Yes, I am entertained. Keep up the good work!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm glad that you're referring to yourself as a child, because that's how you sound.
Other children in real life? Yeah, an anonymous forum of mostly adults, yourself excluded, is entirely representative of how I speak to children. Yes, you're right. Good one.

Your previous post gave an example of what you could do instead of explaining to your child who has the privilege of using the larger stall. At five, she should be able to read the logo if it's present, and to understand that other people, even other children, need more room because of a disability. Calm down and give it a try; unless she has a learning disability she will understand. If she does have a learning or cognitive disability, or perhaps if she has severe behavioral issues you are correct, you can use the stall.

If other people need the stall, as I have said 1000 times on here, they are welcome to use it and we will defer. As it is, most people use it because the regular stalls are hard pressed to fit one overweight person in there. When my daughter is in a one piece, she requests help. I cannot fit in the small stall. And that's what I choose to do. But perhaps it was you who said I was raising an offensive self-centered child. So you can understand that I don't give a crap when you say I can use the stall. I will use it when I deem fit, and that means when no one else is around or using it. I'm done talking to you.

NP here - yes, PP, none of these posters are the Boss of You and if you want to run the risk of inconveniencing disabled people who need the stall to make your life that much more pleasant, you can. If you want to teach your daughter that it's more important for you both to have extra elbow room while you change than to respect the needs of others (even if they're not immediately present right at the moment you walk into the stall), you can. If you want to teach your daughter that she should consider others only after she's made herself as comfortable as possible, you can.

What charming lessons for her to learn.

SHUT. UP. ALREADY. Ugh.

That was my first post on this thread. Relax, Doris.