Anonymous wrote:

Although having multiple children in your teens is a recipe for disaster I'm inclined to agree with the adoptive parent of the FASD child above. Having multiple children before 21 is both a cause and a symptom.

I'm not against encouraging long term birth control but this is bigger than that.

The adoptive parent mentioned poor impulse control, inability to understand cause and effect and inability to understand money. All can be present in FASD children in general and was there in Shamika's family in particular. Shamika of course but when you listen carefully to her mother's story you hear this too.

It comes down to someone who innately doesn't have the ability to navigate the adult world on a minimal level raising multiple children who innately are going to have difficulty navigating the adult world under the best of circumstances but have a poor role model to make it worse.

Spending money to watch and manage these children and families is a good use of resources. Pay now or pay more later. Shelters, prisons, public defenders, rent funds, etc. all cost the tax payers money too and don't seem to change things for the families, children and our society.
Time for serious targeted help.

The social instabilty mentioned above such as 'men in and out' doesn't surprise me as the expectation of two mentally challenged people staying together is asking a lot. Remember the impulse control and other issues. Enormous pressures working against a long term relationship. Consider what your MC and UMC friends get divorced over and in poverty all those reasons are there plus a million more.

I'm the PP above who is the mom by adoption of FASD affected kids. I have often thought that it would be a good use of DC governmental money and resources to renovate and use the large number of 4 unit brick apartment buildings scattered throughout DC to provide this sort of supervised housing. Put a social worker team in one unit and three of these young mothers in the other. Require nexplanon or another form of long-term birth control which does not require an FASD-affected brain to remember to take/use it as a condition of residency. I will tell you that many (not all, but some) FASD-affected individuals can be taught life skills so long as they are in a supported, supervised environment. But DC's current policies regarding government housing, homeless shelters and foster care are not designed to provide that supervised environment, thus the cycle continues. FASD affected teens have normal teenage hormones but the judgment of young elementary school children---it is not surprising that Shamika got pregnant over and over, as ---apparently---did her mother. FASD is multi-generational without continuous and significant interventions.

If we had stronger/better/more accessible special education, are their interventions that would help FASD-affected children grow up to have better adult functioning, or is it the kind of brain impairment that will necessarily require the kind of young adult intervention you describe? I think your idea is a good one.

Although having multiple children in your teens is a recipe for disaster I'm inclined to agree with the adoptive parent of the FASD child above. Having multiple children before 21 is both a cause and a symptom.

I'm not against encouraging long term birth control but this is bigger than that.

The adoptive parent mentioned poor impulse control, inability to understand cause and effect and inability to understand money. All can be present in FASD children in general and was there in Shamika's family in particular. Shamika of course but when you listen carefully to her mother's story you hear this too.

It comes down to someone who innately doesn't have the ability to navigate the adult world on a minimal level raising multiple children who innately are going to have difficulty navigating the adult world under the best of circumstances but have a poor role model to make it worse.

Spending money to watch and manage these children and families is a good use of resources. Pay now or pay more later. Shelters, prisons, public defenders, rent funds, etc. all cost the tax payers money too and don't seem to change things for the families, children and our society.
Time for serious targeted help.

The social instabilty mentioned above such as 'men in and out' doesn't surprise me as the expectation of two mentally challenged people staying together is asking a lot. Remember the impulse control and other issues. Enormous pressures working against a long term relationship. Consider what your MC and UMC friends get divorced over and in poverty all those reasons are there plus a million more.

I'm the PP above who is the mom by adoption of FASD affected kids. I have often thought that it would be a good use of DC governmental money and resources to renovate and use the large number of 4 unit brick apartment buildings scattered throughout DC to provide this sort of supervised housing. Put a social worker team in one unit and three of these young mothers in the other. Require nexplanon or another form of long-term birth control which does not require an FASD-affected brain to remember to take/use it as a condition of residency. I will tell you that many (not all, but some) FASD-affected individuals can be taught life skills so long as they are in a supported, supervised environment. But DC's current policies regarding government housing, homeless shelters and foster care are not designed to provide that supervised environment, thus the cycle continues. FASD affected teens have normal teenage hormones but the judgment of young elementary school children---it is not surprising that Shamika got pregnant over and over, as ---apparently---did her mother. FASD is multi-generational without continuous and significant interventions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inter generational poverty will never be solved no matter how many billions of dollars we spend. $15 minim wage is also not a long term solution. Shemeka Had 2 kids by the age of 21 then three more.She came from a mom who also 5 kids by the age of 21. Antonio was one of 8 kids. All families had rotating men, boyfriends in and out of the house, or kids in foster care. Until families in poverty have easy and free access to birth control and are counseled on this personally. This is what no one talks about. It’s almost impossible to pull one person out of systemic poverty much less one person and five minor children.

I 100% agree with this. I wish it was more politically correct to encourage longer lasting birth control earlier and often. Having children in your teens seriously limits a woman and her children's opportunities to get out of poverty.

+1

Minimum wage will not support a single mother with five children. I worked for CPS years ago in NY and would see mothers under 30 with 8 children living in abject poverty. My DH and I make a little over $200,000 a year living in DC and I don't know how we could afford 8 children without going into poverty.

Although having multiple children in your teens is a recipe for disaster I'm inclined to agree with the adoptive parent of the FASD child above. Having multiple children before 21 is both a cause and a symptom.

I'm not against encouraging long term birth control but this is bigger than that.

The adoptive parent mentioned poor impulse control, inability to understand cause and effect and inability to understand money. All can be present in FASD children in general and was there in Shamika's family in particular. Shamika of course but when you listen carefully to her mother's story you hear this too.

It comes down to someone who innately doesn't have the ability to navigate the adult world on a minimal level raising multiple children who innately are going to have difficulty navigating the adult world under the best of circumstances but have a poor role model to make it worse.

Spending money to watch and manage these children and families is a good use of resources. Pay now or pay more later. Shelters, prisons, public defenders, rent funds, etc. all cost the tax payers money too and don't seem to change things for the families, children and our society.
Time for serious targeted help.

The social instabilty mentioned above such as 'men in and out' doesn't surprise me as the expectation of two mentally challenged people staying together is asking a lot. Remember the impulse control and other issues. Enormous pressures working against a long term relationship. Consider what your MC and UMC friends get divorced over and in poverty all those reasons are there plus a million more.

Anonymous wrote:Inter generational poverty will never be solved no matter how many billions of dollars we spend. $15 minim wage is also not a long term solution. Shemeka Had 2 kids by the age of 21 then three more.She came from a mom who also 5 kids by the age of 21. Antonio was one of 8 kids. All families had rotating men, boyfriends in and out of the house, or kids in foster care. Until families in poverty have easy and free access to birth control and are counseled on this personally. This is what no one talks about. It’s almost impossible to pull one person out of systemic poverty much less one person and five minor children.

I 100% agree with this. I wish it was more politically correct to encourage longer lasting birth control earlier and often. Having children in your teens seriously limits a woman and her children's opportunities to get out of poverty.

Inter generational poverty will never be solved no matter how many billions of dollars we spend. $15 minim wage is also not a long term solution. Shemeka Had 2 kids by the age of 21 then three more.She came from a mom who also 5 kids by the age of 21. Antonio was one of 8 kids. All families had rotating men, boyfriends in and out of the house, or kids in foster care. Until families in poverty have easy and free access to birth control and are counseled on this personally. This is what no one talks about. It’s almost impossible to pull one person out of systemic poverty much less one person and five minor children.

Anonymous wrote:

True to having a tumultuous upbringing for both adults.

I wonder if something as simple as having an Mandated in home mentor teach them the basics could have changed the outcome. Or an appointed guardian who handles the families finances at the very least.

To habitually not pay rent when you've been evicted previously and you have a subsidy makes me think you don't have the mental capacity to handle yourself as an adult and you need ongoing help. It shows an actual inability to make sound judgments. I don't mean this harshly. I'm saying her mental age, literacy and educational level is maybe at a 2nd grade level and Antonio is maybe a 6th or 7th grader.

It was being unable to make these types of judgements and discernments that did Relisha in. There were other little girls approached by Tatum at the shelter and their parents didn't let them go with him. The residents were interviewed for the Post when it happened and this was mentioned.

Their behavior is absolute typical of young people afflicted with fetal alcohol spectrum disorder (FASD). It was only after I became a parent through adoption and had a child with this brain disability did I begin to understand how incredibly common it is and how much it is a contributing factor in multi-generational poverty. Dysmaturity (functioning at a developmental age much lower than chronological), inability to understand money, poor impulse control, inability to under cause & effect or consequences--all of these actions are symptoms of the brain damage caused by FASD. The government should either provide intensive social work supervision (as in an on-site social worker managing no more than 4 FASD affected mothers at a time) or remove the kids. But promoting constant family reunification without understanding that FASD affected mothers CAN'T make rational parenting choices because their brains are impaired is just a recipe for continuing the cycle.

This is the most logical explanation I've read yet.

True to having a tumultuous upbringing for both adults.

I wonder if something as simple as having an Mandated in home mentor teach them the basics could have changed the outcome. Or an appointed guardian who handles the families finances at the very least.

To habitually not pay rent when you've been evicted previously and you have a subsidy makes me think you don't have the mental capacity to handle yourself as an adult and you need ongoing help. It shows an actual inability to make sound judgments. I don't mean this harshly. I'm saying her mental age, literacy and educational level is maybe at a 2nd grade level and Antonio is maybe a 6th or 7th grader.

It was being unable to make these types of judgements and discernments that did Relisha in. There were other little girls approached by Tatum at the shelter and their parents didn't let them go with him. The residents were interviewed for the Post when it happened and this was mentioned.

Their behavior is absolute typical of young people afflicted with fetal alcohol spectrum disorder (FASD). It was only after I became a parent through adoption and had a child with this brain disability did I begin to understand how incredibly common it is and how much it is a contributing factor in multi-generational poverty. Dysmaturity (functioning at a developmental age much lower than chronological), inability to understand money, poor impulse control, inability to under cause & effect or consequences--all of these actions are symptoms of the brain damage caused by FASD. The government should either provide intensive social work supervision (as in an on-site social worker managing no more than 4 FASD affected mothers at a time) or remove the kids. But promoting constant family reunification without understanding that FASD affected mothers CAN'T make rational parenting choices because their brains are impaired is just a recipe for continuing the cycle.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone listen to this weeks episode about the eviction?

The narrator is pushing my boundaries on compassion here. The mother did not pay rent and was evicted. She had been evicted from others places although the podcast kept emphasizing that not all eviction actions filed against her stuck.

It was noted that she received a rent subsidy so how much was her actual monthly rent in 2006 through 2012? Her boyfriend admitted that she didn't pay rent on the apt before there were any issues with the apt.

I hated the way the narrator implied if there has been a trial in housing court maybe she wouldn't have been evicted or if Shamika had shown up to court maybe she shouldn't have been evicted. If you don't show up to court what do you expect is going to happen? She also kept repeating this carpet excuse but the lawyer she had on basically said carpet condition isn't covered by the rules. So no nothing would have been different if Shamika had pushed the carpet issue as the reason she didn't pay rent.

This story still haunts me.

True to having a tumultuous upbringing for both adults.

I wonder if something as simple as having an Mandated in home mentor teach them the basics could have changed the outcome. Or an appointed guardian who handles the families finances at the very least.

To habitually not pay rent when you've been evicted previously and you have a subsidy makes me think you don't have the mental capacity to handle yourself as an adult and you need ongoing help. It shows an actual inability to make sound judgments. I don't mean this harshly. I'm saying her mental age, literacy and educational level is maybe at a 2nd grade level and Antonio is maybe a 6th or 7th grader.

It was being unable to make these types of judgements and discernments that did Relisha in. There were other little girls approached by Tatum at the shelter and their parents didn't let them go with him. The residents were interviewed for the Post when it happened and this was mentioned.

the podcast host is certainly bending over backward to not cast blame. its hard for me not to judge but shamika was in hospitals etc for emotionally disturbed kids for years, and had low IQ, and had a violent and messed up early life. her boyfriend came from an enormous family that also had been evicted and had been abused. they were both really young and damaged.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone listen to this weeks episode about the eviction?

The narrator is pushing my boundaries on compassion here. The mother did not pay rent and was evicted. She had been evicted from others places although the podcast kept emphasizing that not all eviction actions filed against her stuck.

It was noted that she received a rent subsidy so how much was her actual monthly rent in 2006 through 2012? Her boyfriend admitted that she didn't pay rent on the apt before there were any issues with the apt.

Her boyfriend also admitted that he gave her the money to pay the rent and she didn’t pay it. I was also very frustrated by this episode but reminded myself that the point of this podcast is to figure out if there was an intervention that could have saved Relisha. Maybe the eviction was the place; maybe not. But it can’t just be unavoidable for a child to be harmed because she was born to a parent that can’t deal with life. It’s not excusing or blaming parents, it’s finding ways to help children (and hopefully their parents too).

Anyone listen to this weeks episode about the eviction?

The narrator is pushing my boundaries on compassion here. The mother did not pay rent and was evicted. She had been evicted from others places although the podcast kept emphasizing that not all eviction actions filed against her stuck.

It was noted that she received a rent subsidy so how much was her actual monthly rent in 2006 through 2012? Her boyfriend admitted that she didn't pay rent on the apt before there were any issues with the apt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New episode of the podcast is up.

There is? Or you mean the one from 2/4?

I believe it is every Thursday