Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^I wonder if Hearst and Eaton are doing the same thing? Limiting the listed OOB spots to build support from local families?

Absolutely. Again, these schools will have waitlists into the 100s. There is no real advantage for the principal to commit NOW to offering up a dozen OOB spots when he/she can just turn to waitlist once the enrollment deadline has passed. And with the ranking in the lottery, if you have a waitlist number you want the school than any other school you got a spot at because you are only waitlisted at schools ranked higher than anywhere you got in (or if you got no spot anywhere). So, the likelihood of a waitlist candidate saying "yes" in May or June or July or even August is pretty high. Yes, the public school pool will lose some families who decide to go private because of the uncertainty, but not many.

But doing so (at least in this case you are outlining) seems completely justified and is not "withholding slots to try to attract IB families". It is "my classes are full and no one has told me they are not coming back, so I don't have any slots!" Re-enrollment forms haven't even been sent around, let alone due to be returned. Let's not get too conspiratorial.

Anonymous wrote:^^I wonder if Hearst and Eaton are doing the same thing? Limiting the listed OOB spots to build support from local families?

Absolutely. Again, these schools will have waitlists into the 100s. There is no real advantage for the principal to commit NOW to offering up a dozen OOB spots when he/she can just turn to waitlist once the enrollment deadline has passed. And with the ranking in the lottery, if you have a waitlist number you want the school than any other school you got a spot at because you are only waitlisted at schools ranked higher than anywhere you got in (or if you got no spot anywhere). So, the likelihood of a waitlist candidate saying "yes" in May or June or July or even August is pretty high. Yes, the public school pool will lose some families who decide to go private because of the uncertainty, but not many.

^^I wonder if Hearst and Eaton are doing the same thing? Limiting the listed OOB spots to build support from local families?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Pope lost IB families due to the move to NE, but he also transformed Hardy from a school with a traditional curriculum to an arts magnet program to which students were admitted by submitting a portfolio, scheduling and interview, etc. Pope appears to be a big believer in arts enrichment as a was to attract and retain at-risk students. He is doing something similar at his new ES:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/savo...-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html

The real issue was this: it was unfair to IB families that Pope transformed their neighborhood school into what was essentially an arts magnet school.

Rhee offered Pope a reasonable compromise: a different school building to serve as a DCPS-endorsed arts magnet school, allowing Hardy to revert back to a neighborhood MS with a traditional curriculum. Pope refused to compromise. Instead he rallied the support of his OOB parents. Of course, the OOB families were almost all AA, and the IB families were not, so accusations of racism were leveled:

But here's the thing: there are so many assumptions on all sides. So many references to what appeared or seemed to be, that anyone could claim their own version credible and/or correct. Were the IB families upset about their school being a magnet school or about the racial make up of the population? Seems to be both. Were the OOB parents concerned that their kids would lose their hard-earned place at the school or that the issues with race were pretty transparent? Seems to be both. Did Pope want to maintain the success of his arts magnet school for which he had enormous support from committed families, or did he want to keep the school from reverting to a regular neighborhood school for families that needed to be courted, cajoled and convinced? It appears to be both.

It's reasonable for any family to be concerned that their child would be in the unwelcome minority at a school. Which means that both IB and OOB families had cause for concern.

It's not reasonable for DCPS to choose the concern of one set of parents over another. Promise of a "compromise" in the form of another building for the magnet program sounds about as realistic and "reasonable" as making the school majority IB in one school year. How would that work? The entire population and teachers and programs and resources just go to another building? To be replaced by what at Hardy?

Again, I don't live IB or have a student at Hardy or know much beyond what I'm reading here, but the accounts from both sides really do make it look as if DCPS has been bending over backwards for IB. At the very least, they were making decisions too quickly and/or promising too much with little to no foresight to what the changes would bring.

Doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

But the DCPS philosophy was at the time and continues to be -- for now -- that kids are best served by neighborhood schools. Neighborhood schools were the norm, magnet schools the exception.

A magnet school can be located anywhere in the city. However, a neighborhood school has to be located, well, in the neighborhood. Hardy could not serve as a neighborhood school if the vast majority (about 90%) of its kids were OOB. That is what IB parents recognized then and OOB families refused to accept.

The very same issue hinders Hardy's transformation back into a neighborhood school today.

Unfortunately, whenever low IB enrollment at Hardy is mentioned, the answer always seems to be that it is the responsibility of IB parents to organize and enroll their kids in sufficient numbers that the school becomes majority IB. If they are unable to succeed at this Herculean task, then they have "abandoned Hardy" to OOB families and have lost their claim on the school.

I propose that the right approach to transforming Hardy back into a neighborhood school is simply not to accept any more OOB kids, except siblings of current OOB kids and OOB kids who are already enrolled in one of its feeder schools. If enrollment in next year's 6th grade drops from 130 to 30, so be it. IB enrollment at Mann is 87% and at Key and Soddert it is 84% Once those families see IB enrollment at Hardy approach 85%, they will flock to Hardy and enrollment will swell.

Would enrollment at Hardy return to its current level of 400 without admitting OOB students? It probably would given the total 3rd grade enrollment of 250 at its feeder schools. If Hardy captured only 50% of its feeder school 3rd graders, enrollment at Hardy would quickly hit 375, not counting OOB siblings. Even if enrollment peaked at only, say, 275 kids, who cares. What's wrong with a 90% IB MS in Georgetown with only 275 kids. Several DCPS MSs are of similar size, e.g., Elliot-Hine, Johnson, Kramer. During Pope's reign, enrollment at Hardy was much lower than it is now. Even the current enrollment of 400 is somewhat arbitrary as the building is said to have the capacity for 650.

Sounds to me like that's exactly what's happening. Last year, there were 70 OOB slots for 6th grade in the lottery. (I know so from having applied and landed one.) I hear this year's number is more like a dozen or less so. Sounds to me like that's precisely the approach.

That seems like a fine approach to me. This doesn't mean OOB can't select Hardy as a lottery pick. There will be a significant waitlist, I'm sure. But offering up OOB spots via the lottery before even knowing how many IB kids may commit is foolhardy. The school can tap into the waitlist between May and August, after enrollment paperwork is due. That seems totally fair and reasonable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Pope lost IB families due to the move to NE, but he also transformed Hardy from a school with a traditional curriculum to an arts magnet program to which students were admitted by submitting a portfolio, scheduling and interview, etc. Pope appears to be a big believer in arts enrichment as a was to attract and retain at-risk students. He is doing something similar at his new ES:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/savo...-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html

The real issue was this: it was unfair to IB families that Pope transformed their neighborhood school into what was essentially an arts magnet school.

Rhee offered Pope a reasonable compromise: a different school building to serve as a DCPS-endorsed arts magnet school, allowing Hardy to revert back to a neighborhood MS with a traditional curriculum. Pope refused to compromise. Instead he rallied the support of his OOB parents. Of course, the OOB families were almost all AA, and the IB families were not, so accusations of racism were leveled:

But here's the thing: there are so many assumptions on all sides. So many references to what appeared or seemed to be, that anyone could claim their own version credible and/or correct. Were the IB families upset about their school being a magnet school or about the racial make up of the population? Seems to be both. Were the OOB parents concerned that their kids would lose their hard-earned place at the school or that the issues with race were pretty transparent? Seems to be both. Did Pope want to maintain the success of his arts magnet school for which he had enormous support from committed families, or did he want to keep the school from reverting to a regular neighborhood school for families that needed to be courted, cajoled and convinced? It appears to be both.

It's reasonable for any family to be concerned that their child would be in the unwelcome minority at a school. Which means that both IB and OOB families had cause for concern.

It's not reasonable for DCPS to choose the concern of one set of parents over another. Promise of a "compromise" in the form of another building for the magnet program sounds about as realistic and "reasonable" as making the school majority IB in one school year. How would that work? The entire population and teachers and programs and resources just go to another building? To be replaced by what at Hardy?

Again, I don't live IB or have a student at Hardy or know much beyond what I'm reading here, but the accounts from both sides really do make it look as if DCPS has been bending over backwards for IB. At the very least, they were making decisions too quickly and/or promising too much with little to no foresight to what the changes would bring.

Doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

But the DCPS philosophy was at the time and continues to be -- for now -- that kids are best served by neighborhood schools. Neighborhood schools were the norm, magnet schools the exception.

A magnet school can be located anywhere in the city. However, a neighborhood school has to be located, well, in the neighborhood. Hardy could not serve as a neighborhood school if the vast majority (about 90%) of its kids were OOB. That is what IB parents recognized then and OOB families refused to accept.

The very same issue hinders Hardy's transformation back into a neighborhood school today.

Unfortunately, whenever low IB enrollment at Hardy is mentioned, the answer always seems to be that it is the responsibility of IB parents to organize and enroll their kids in sufficient numbers that the school becomes majority IB. If they are unable to succeed at this Herculean task, then they have "abandoned Hardy" to OOB families and have lost their claim on the school.

I propose that the right approach to transforming Hardy back into a neighborhood school is simply not to accept any more OOB kids, except siblings of current OOB kids and OOB kids who are already enrolled in one of its feeder schools. If enrollment in next year's 6th grade drops from 130 to 30, so be it. IB enrollment at Mann is 87% and at Key and Soddert it is 84% Once those families see IB enrollment at Hardy approach 85%, they will flock to Hardy and enrollment will swell.

Would enrollment at Hardy return to its current level of 400 without admitting OOB students? It probably would given the total 3rd grade enrollment of 250 at its feeder schools. If Hardy captured only 50% of its feeder school 3rd graders, enrollment at Hardy would quickly hit 375, not counting OOB siblings. Even if enrollment peaked at only, say, 275 kids, who cares. What's wrong with a 90% IB MS in Georgetown with only 275 kids. Several DCPS MSs are of similar size, e.g., Elliot-Hine, Johnson, Kramer. During Pope's reign, enrollment at Hardy was much lower than it is now. Even the current enrollment of 400 is somewhat arbitrary as the building is said to have the capacity for 650.

Sounds to me like that's exactly what's happening. Last year, there were 70 OOB slots for 6th grade in the lottery. (I know so from having applied and landed one.) I hear this year's number is more like a dozen or less so. Sounds to me like that's precisely the approach.

Anonymous wrote:

Pope lost IB families due to the move to NE, but he also transformed Hardy from a school with a traditional curriculum to an arts magnet program to which students were admitted by submitting a portfolio, scheduling and interview, etc. Pope appears to be a big believer in arts enrichment as a was to attract and retain at-risk students. He is doing something similar at his new ES:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/savo...-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html

The real issue was this: it was unfair to IB families that Pope transformed their neighborhood school into what was essentially an arts magnet school.

Rhee offered Pope a reasonable compromise: a different school building to serve as a DCPS-endorsed arts magnet school, allowing Hardy to revert back to a neighborhood MS with a traditional curriculum. Pope refused to compromise. Instead he rallied the support of his OOB parents. Of course, the OOB families were almost all AA, and the IB families were not, so accusations of racism were leveled:

But here's the thing: there are so many assumptions on all sides. So many references to what appeared or seemed to be, that anyone could claim their own version credible and/or correct. Were the IB families upset about their school being a magnet school or about the racial make up of the population? Seems to be both. Were the OOB parents concerned that their kids would lose their hard-earned place at the school or that the issues with race were pretty transparent? Seems to be both. Did Pope want to maintain the success of his arts magnet school for which he had enormous support from committed families, or did he want to keep the school from reverting to a regular neighborhood school for families that needed to be courted, cajoled and convinced? It appears to be both.

It's reasonable for any family to be concerned that their child would be in the unwelcome minority at a school. Which means that both IB and OOB families had cause for concern.

It's not reasonable for DCPS to choose the concern of one set of parents over another. Promise of a "compromise" in the form of another building for the magnet program sounds about as realistic and "reasonable" as making the school majority IB in one school year. How would that work? The entire population and teachers and programs and resources just go to another building? To be replaced by what at Hardy?

Again, I don't live IB or have a student at Hardy or know much beyond what I'm reading here, but the accounts from both sides really do make it look as if DCPS has been bending over backwards for IB. At the very least, they were making decisions too quickly and/or promising too much with little to no foresight to what the changes would bring.

Doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

But the DCPS philosophy was at the time and continues to be -- for now -- that kids are best served by neighborhood schools. Neighborhood schools were the norm, magnet schools the exception.

A magnet school can be located anywhere in the city. However, a neighborhood school has to be located, well, in the neighborhood. Hardy could not serve as a neighborhood school if the vast majority (about 90%) of its kids were OOB. That is what IB parents recognized then and OOB families refused to accept.

The very same issue hinders Hardy's transformation back into a neighborhood school today.

Unfortunately, whenever low IB enrollment at Hardy is mentioned, the answer always seems to be that it is the responsibility of IB parents to organize and enroll their kids in sufficient numbers that the school becomes majority IB. If they are unable to succeed at this Herculean task, then they have "abandoned Hardy" to OOB families and have lost their claim on the school.

I propose that the right approach to transforming Hardy back into a neighborhood school is simply not to accept any more OOB kids, except siblings of current OOB kids and OOB kids who are already enrolled in one of its feeder schools. If enrollment in next year's 6th grade drops from 130 to 30, so be it. IB enrollment at Mann is 87% and at Key and Soddert it is 84% Once those families see IB enrollment at Hardy approach 85%, they will flock to Hardy and enrollment will swell.

Would enrollment at Hardy return to its current level of 400 without admitting OOB students? It probably would given the total 3rd grade enrollment of 250 at its feeder schools. If Hardy captured only 50% of its feeder school 3rd graders, enrollment at Hardy would quickly hit 375, not counting OOB siblings. Even if enrollment peaked at only, say, 275 kids, who cares. What's wrong with a 90% IB MS in Georgetown with only 275 kids. Several DCPS MSs are of similar size, e.g., Elliot-Hine, Johnson, Kramer. During Pope's reign, enrollment at Hardy was much lower than it is now. Even the current enrollment of 400 is somewhat arbitrary as the building is said to have the capacity for 650.

Anonymous wrote:I would welcome a link to any data supporting the idea that the number of in bounds Hardy families is different now then prior to the start of renovations. That's a core assumption of the above history. Doesn't match what went on with in bound friend's families during that period. I suspect this is an urban legend.

It would be nice to have the actual enrollment data from that era, PP. The best I can do, however, is the following except from a Post article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001439_2.html?sid=ST2008082003988):

Renovations began in December 2005. The original plan was for students to remain in the building during construction. But work crews cut phone and electrical lines as well as pipes, nearly causing a flood. After that, Pope said, he lobbied to move out of the building. The school was relocated to the Hamilton Center, a vacant special education school in Northeast.

After the move, enrollment dropped from 420 to 320.

It's reasonable to suppose that most of the 100 kids who left were IB. Some of the 320 who stayed were probably IB as well. That gives a likely lower bound on the pre-move IB enrollment of 24%. It might have been much higher, for all we know.

According to DCPS, IB enrollment at Hardy is 11% today. (http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Hardy+Middle+School)

Pope lost IB families due to the move to NE, but he also transformed Hardy from a school with a traditional curriculum to an arts magnet program to which students were admitted by submitting a portfolio, scheduling and interview, etc. Pope appears to be a big believer in arts enrichment as a was to attract and retain at-risk students. He is doing something similar at his new ES:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/savo...-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html

The real issue was this: it was unfair to IB families that Pope transformed their neighborhood school into what was essentially an arts magnet school.

Rhee offered Pope a reasonable compromise: a different school building to serve as a DCPS-endorsed arts magnet school, allowing Hardy to revert back to a neighborhood MS with a traditional curriculum. Pope refused to compromise. Instead he rallied the support of his OOB parents. Of course, the OOB families were almost all AA, and the IB families were not, so accusations of racism were leveled:

But here's the thing: there are so many assumptions on all sides. So many references to what appeared or seemed to be, that anyone could claim their own version credible and/or correct. Were the IB families upset about their school being a magnet school or about the racial make up of the population? Seems to be both. Were the OOB parents concerned that their kids would lose their hard-earned place at the school or that the issues with race were pretty transparent? Seems to be both. Did Pope want to maintain the success of his arts magnet school for which he had enormous support from committed families, or did he want to keep the school from reverting to a regular neighborhood school for families that needed to be courted, cajoled and convinced? It appears to be both.

It's reasonable for any family to be concerned that their child would be in the unwelcome minority at a school. Which means that both IB and OOB families had cause for concern.

It's not reasonable for DCPS to choose the concern of one set of parents over another. Promise of a "compromise" in the form of another building for the magnet program sounds about as realistic and "reasonable" as making the school majority IB in one school year. How would that work? The entire population and teachers and programs and resources just go to another building? To be replaced by what at Hardy?

Again, I don't live IB or have a student at Hardy or know much beyond what I'm reading here, but the accounts from both sides really do make it look as if DCPS has been bending over backwards for IB. At the very least, they were making decisions too quickly and/or promising too much with little to no foresight to what the changes would bring.

Doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

I would welcome a link to any data supporting the idea that the number of in bounds Hardy families is different now then prior to the start of renovations. That's a core assumption of the above history. Doesn't match what went on with in bound friend's families during that period. I suspect this is an urban legend.

Thank you "Burleith/Hardy History guy." That explains pretty well why in-bounds parents would be mad as hell, too.

And that Jeffrey Watson fella quoted above sure sounds like a winner. Ain't no convincing him otherwise that race isn't the end-all be-all.

Anonymous wrote:

A new principal starts on July 1. She dismantles Pope's admissions scheme, and goes to a straight by-the-book lottery. Enrollment surges by over 120 students -- it turns out Pope had been keeping the school almost a quarter empty. The new students cause problems with scheduling and discipline. Pro-Pope parents know they can't complain about the change in admissions policy, so they start a campaign blaming all of the problems on the incompetence of the new prinicpal. After four months the new principal has had enough and begs for her old job back.

I didn't follow the Hardy drama at the time, but reading this version makes me feel Pope a) lost the IB families when the school was in NE; b) couldn't lure the families back fast enough but had lots of OOB families, c) still wanted to maintain a high standard, and so d) used the admissions process to do that.

Pope's got one crowd unwilling to drive across town and another crowd that keeps doing just that. Why should he turn his back on them if they're willing to jump through hoops?

New principal removes the admissions process, and the discipline problems start. As a parent, I'd be pretty angry about that, too.

The situation was a little more complicated than that, PP.

Pope lost IB families due to the move to NE, but he also transformed Hardy from a school with a traditional curriculum to an arts magnet program to which students were admitted by submitting a portfolio, scheduling and interview, etc. Pope appears to be a big believer in arts enrichment as a was to attract and retain at-risk students. He is doing something similar at his new ES:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/savoy-elementary/2012/12/09/c8a9b322-3fd0-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html

The real issue was this: it was unfair to IB families that Pope transformed their neighborhood school into what was essentially an arts magnet school.

Rhee offered Pope a reasonable compromise: a different school building to serve as a DCPS-endorsed arts magnet school, allowing Hardy to revert back to a neighborhood MS with a traditional curriculum. Pope refused to compromise. Instead he rallied the support of his OOB parents. Of course, the OOB families were almost all AA, and the IB families were not, so accusations of racism were leveled:

From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/05/AR2009120501580.html

Jeffrey Watson, who sent two sons to Hardy, said neighborhood parents stayed away because they were not comfortable with the racial composition of the school.

"Don't play games with people in here. We're not stupid," Watson said. "Rather than having private meetings with them, tell them to walk on over."

Rhee said she found the suggestion that race factored into her dealings with neighborhood parents to be "extraordinarily disconcerting."

"In none of the conversations that I have had about Hardy, with parents either at school currently or at the feeder schools, has anyone said they were said they were concerned with the racial makeup of the school," Rhee said.

Pope's failure to compromise with Rhee resulted in a loss for both IB and OOB families. However, as you note, PP, the OOB families were probably hurt more. They lost the DCPS-endorsed selective admissions art magnet program where many of their kids would have thrived.

A new principal starts on July 1. She dismantles Pope's admissions scheme, and goes to a straight by-the-book lottery. Enrollment surges by over 120 students -- it turns out Pope had been keeping the school almost a quarter empty. The new students cause problems with scheduling and discipline. Pro-Pope parents know they can't complain about the change in admissions policy, so they start a campaign blaming all of the problems on the incompetence of the new prinicpal. After four months the new principal has had enough and begs for her old job back.

I didn't follow the Hardy drama at the time, but reading this version makes me feel Pope a) lost the IB families when the school was in NE; b) couldn't lure the families back fast enough but had lots of OOB families, c) still wanted to maintain a high standard, and so d) used the admissions process to do that.

Pope's got one crowd unwilling to drive across town and another crowd that keeps doing just that. Why should he turn his back on them if they're willing to jump through hoops?

New principal removes the admissions process, and the discipline problems start. As a parent, I'd be pretty angry about that, too.

Anonymous wrote:While I would love to see a turn-around at Hardy, I am not optimistic that it will happen in the near term.

The kids at the feeders are much better prepared for MS than the OOB kids are. Since Hardy offers no meaningful differentiation (sorry, SEM does not cut it), the kids from the feeders will be decelerated while the OOB kids are given a chance to catch up by HS. Sadly, many of OOB kids still won't catch up by HS, but the feeder kids will certainly fall behind where they might otherwise have been and where their peers at Deal MS will end up.

.

I see this a lot, and I always wonder about the well prepared OOB kids whose parents are just looking for an option besides Deal. We are in this situation. Our 2nd grade daughter is in a great DCPS school that doesn't happen to feed to Deal. We and her classmates' parents are obviously scanning, analyzing, and making plans, one of which might include Hardy if things worked out that way in a few years. I know there must be other parents like us. If we could all amass and descend on a Hardy, for example, that COULD be an entering class of well prepared OOB kids... Or not? Would love to hear discussion around this.

So there were two middle schools for a while and then only enough local demand for the smaller one to remain open. Thanks for that clarification.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that there was not enough demand to keep the school open between roughly 1980 and 1996. Since it reopened, sitting, waiting, the actual users have rarely been from the immediate neighborhood. Point is, they stopped using it so it was shut down for a long time....

Hardy Middle School has been open continuously since its founding in 1972. From 1972 to 1996 it was at the former Hardy Elementary School on Foxhall Road. From 1996 to 2005 it was at the former Gordon Junior High School on Wisconsin Avenue. From 2005 to 2008 it was at the Hamilton Educational Campus in Northeast, and in 2008 it returned to its current location, the former Gordon site.

Gordon Junior High shut down in 1978 and the building was used for a variety of non-school purposes until it reopened as Hardy in 1996.

When Amy Carter attended it was on Foxhall Road.