Anonymous wrote:The point is if FCPS allows one school to have AAP level iv which can be done with no vote by the school board then why can't any other middle school have level iv?

FCPS can -- as long as the middle school meets all of the criteria detailed in the readiness checklist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't know that South County weighs heavily on Thoreau parents one way or the other. From what I understand, FCPS had a longstanding agreement with parents in the South County area, pre-dating the construction of both the middle and high school, that South County would get a separate middle school, with an AAP center. FCPS delivered on both those promises.

+1

The point is if FCPS allows one school to have AAP level iv which can be done with no vote by the school board then why can't any other middle school have level iv? Long standing agreement in writing? No. http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/minutes/20070222R.pdf Thoreau to Jackson vote.
This is one school district. Modulars are not the same as new or renovated bricks and mortar capacity.

Anonymous wrote:
I don't know that South County weighs heavily on Thoreau parents one way or the other. From what I understand, FCPS had a longstanding agreement with parents in the South County area, pre-dating the construction of both the middle and high school, that South County would get a separate middle school, with an AAP center. FCPS delivered on both those promises.

+1

Anonymous wrote:FCPS had a local level iv at South County MS and that became a center after 1 year. Are Thoreau parents unaware of this?
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/359138.page

That was a "labeling" issue, as described by Dan Storck (among others), and the issue was corrected by the School Board.

Anonymous wrote:sept 2013:
cooper 753, 0
kilmer 1293,aap 454 [includes Langley pyramid]
longfellow 1332, aap 555 [includes Langley pyramid]
thoreau 843, 0
jackson 1257, 291 [includes Madison pyramid]

How many for each of the last 5 years out of total eligible went to Thoreau for honors only instead of to Jackson?

FCPS had a local level iv at South County MS and that became a center after 1 year. Are Thoreau parents unaware of this?
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/359138.page

If a critical mass has not been going to Jackson then it's ridiculous that FCPS had a level iv at South County and allowed it to become a recognized center. FCPS used the phrase "recognized center" in this document:
http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/943T8J75CFA7/$file/AAP%20Level%20IV%20Center%20Proposal%20for%20South%20County%20MS.pdf

Cooper has other issues like the monster modular. Also if Cooper gets overcrowded then there could be concerns about base school boundary adjustments for neighborhoods by Herndon and South Lakes.

I am not sure what your point is - could you be specific?

I don't know that South County weighs heavily on Thoreau parents one way or the other. From what I understand, FCPS had a longstanding agreement with parents in the South County area, pre-dating the construction of both the middle and high school, that South County would get a separate middle school, with an AAP center. FCPS delivered on both those promises.

Cooper does not seem to be in danger of being over-crowded any time soon, at least according to FCPS, and with the declining enrollment at Langley there's no chance that Cooper/Langley neighborhoods will get moved to Herndon or South Lakes any time soon. On the other hand, if Cooper keeps sending AAP students to Kilmer and Longfellow, those schools clearly will be overcrowded in the near future, and then FCPS will be under pressure to start shoveling Kilmer/Marshall and Longfellow/McLean neighborhoods into Cooper/Langley to maintain the enrollments.

sept 2013:
cooper 753, 0
kilmer 1293,aap 454 [includes Langley pyramid]
longfellow 1332, aap 555 [includes Langley pyramid]
thoreau 843, 0
jackson 1257, 291 [includes Madison pyramid]

How many for each of the last 5 years out of total eligible went to Thoreau for honors only instead of to Jackson?

FCPS had a local level iv at South County MS and that became a center after 1 year. Are Thoreau parents unaware of this?
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/359138.page

If a critical mass has not been going to Jackson then it's ridiculous that FCPS had a level iv at South County and allowed it to become a recognized center. FCPS used the phrase "recognized center" in this document:
http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/943T8J75CFA7/$file/AAP%20Level%20IV%20Center%20Proposal%20for%20South%20County%20MS.pdf

Cooper has other issues like the monster modular. Also if Cooper gets overcrowded then there could be concerns about base school boundary adjustments for neighborhoods by Herndon and South Lakes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are several posters you're arguing with too. And no, I don't think my position is inconsistent at all -- I think both our children should be in the program that is educationally appropriate for them.

Which comes back to the fact that both of you would apparently be happy if Cooper remained without AAP, and Longfellow were coverted to AAP-only, but that isn't going to play well south of Route 123.

Glad we got that sorted out!

Hmm, no I don't think Longfellow should be only AAP -- that's someone else & I think it's crazy talk And actually I think a real center at Cooper is a good idea -- if well planned and the school is given the resources & space it needs.

And I feel a Longfellow center-only school is a great idea. What's truly crazy is spending the energy and funds to make a center school out of Cooper, a great school on its own merits, when there are two other center middle schools in the area. The fact that they're overcrowded is the fault of FCPS and their lax AAP admittance standards.

I would propose to renovate Langley HS, move the Cooper and Longfellow non-AAP kids (they'll be about 1600 of them in a few years) to the facility, and relocate Langley HS to the existing Cooper building. If you think this is without precedent, consider that Falls Church HS used to be Whittier Middle School and Sandburg MS used to be Fort Hunt HS.

How's that sound? Do I have buy-in from the Langley parents?

That's a non-starter. High schools and middle schools are completely different facilitywise. Specialty classrooms, auditoriums and sports fields for starters.

I think each school should have AAP kids from their catchment area. There will be enough. Life will go on.

When you say "each school," do you mean each of Cooper, Longfellow and Kilmer, or each middle school in the county? Because parents in other clusters have been fairly vocal that they don't think there would be enough of a "critical mass" at some middle schools for stand-alone AAP programs?

However, where Cooper is concerned, if people were willing to get off the pot, you have to believe they could have an excellent AAP program up and running there quickly.

I meant Cooper, Longfellow and Kilmer -- all three would have more than enough student without kids from outside their areas. Thoreau as well.

Actually full honors is AAP. And in middle school honors is self selected and it is working. Many students coming from the AAP centers are struggling with full honors in middle school. Elementary AAP needs to go no reason for it in the way it is today.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are several posters you're arguing with too. And no, I don't think my position is inconsistent at all -- I think both our children should be in the program that is educationally appropriate for them.

Which comes back to the fact that both of you would apparently be happy if Cooper remained without AAP, and Longfellow were coverted to AAP-only, but that isn't going to play well south of Route 123.

Glad we got that sorted out!

Hmm, no I don't think Longfellow should be only AAP -- that's someone else & I think it's crazy talk And actually I think a real center at Cooper is a good idea -- if well planned and the school is given the resources & space it needs.

And I feel a Longfellow center-only school is a great idea. What's truly crazy is spending the energy and funds to make a center school out of Cooper, a great school on its own merits, when there are two other center middle schools in the area. The fact that they're overcrowded is the fault of FCPS and their lax AAP admittance standards.

I would propose to renovate Langley HS, move the Cooper and Longfellow non-AAP kids (they'll be about 1600 of them in a few years) to the facility, and relocate Langley HS to the existing Cooper building. If you think this is without precedent, consider that Falls Church HS used to be Whittier Middle School and Sandburg MS used to be Fort Hunt HS.

How's that sound? Do I have buy-in from the Langley parents?

That's a non-starter. High schools and middle schools are completely different facilitywise. Specialty classrooms, auditoriums and sports fields for starters.

I think each school should have AAP kids from their catchment area. There will be enough. Life will go on.

When you say "each school," do you mean each of Cooper, Longfellow and Kilmer, or each middle school in the county? Because parents in other clusters have been fairly vocal that they don't think there would be enough of a "critical mass" at some middle schools for stand-alone AAP programs?

However, where Cooper is concerned, if people were willing to get off the pot, you have to believe they could have an excellent AAP program up and running there quickly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think it is time to what the HS do in MS. Open enrollment for Honors. My children went to Longfellow and there was very little to distinguish between the AAP and Honors classes in terms of curriculum and in terms of caliber of students. It would make classes more uniformly the same size; it would decrease the "us vs them"; it would increase morale.

Couldn't agree more. Actually, Honors classes are already open enrollment, but did you mean open enroll. for AAP as well? If so, I agree.

I meant that there would no longer be AAP in MS- but Honors and Gen Ed classes- like in the HS.

A student taking four Honors classes in MS (or "full Honors") is receiving Level IV services.

Then why not mix the populations?

Because "full Honors" is different from AAP.

Not really.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is time to what the HS do in MS. Open enrollment for Honors. My children went to Longfellow and there was very little to distinguish between the AAP and Honors classes in terms of curriculum and in terms of caliber of students. It would make classes more uniformly the same size; it would decrease the "us vs them"; it would increase morale.

Couldn't agree more. Actually, Honors classes are already open enrollment, but did you mean open enroll. for AAP as well? If so, I agree.

I meant that there would no longer be AAP in MS- but Honors and Gen Ed classes- like in the HS.

A student taking four Honors classes in MS (or "full Honors") is receiving Level IV services.

Then why not mix the populations?

Because "full Honors" is different from AAP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are several posters you're arguing with too. And no, I don't think my position is inconsistent at all -- I think both our children should be in the program that is educationally appropriate for them.

Which comes back to the fact that both of you would apparently be happy if Cooper remained without AAP, and Longfellow were coverted to AAP-only, but that isn't going to play well south of Route 123.

Glad we got that sorted out!

Hmm, no I don't think Longfellow should be only AAP -- that's someone else & I think it's crazy talk And actually I think a real center at Cooper is a good idea -- if well planned and the school is given the resources & space it needs.

And I feel a Longfellow center-only school is a great idea. What's truly crazy is spending the energy and funds to make a center school out of Cooper, a great school on its own merits, when there are two other center middle schools in the area. The fact that they're overcrowded is the fault of FCPS and their lax AAP admittance standards.

I would propose to renovate Langley HS, move the Cooper and Longfellow non-AAP kids (they'll be about 1600 of them in a few years) to the facility, and relocate Langley HS to the existing Cooper building. If you think this is without precedent, consider that Falls Church HS used to be Whittier Middle School and Sandburg MS used to be Fort Hunt HS.

How's that sound? Do I have buy-in from the Langley parents?

That's a non-starter. High schools and middle schools are completely different facilitywise. Specialty classrooms, auditoriums and sports fields for starters.

I think each school should have AAP kids from their catchment area. There will be enough. Life will go on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are several posters you're arguing with too. And no, I don't think my position is inconsistent at all -- I think both our children should be in the program that is educationally appropriate for them.

Which comes back to the fact that both of you would apparently be happy if Cooper remained without AAP, and Longfellow were coverted to AAP-only, but that isn't going to play well south of Route 123.

Glad we got that sorted out!

Hmm, no I don't think Longfellow should be only AAP -- that's someone else & I think it's crazy talk And actually I think a real center at Cooper is a good idea -- if well planned and the school is given the resources & space it needs.

And I feel a Longfellow center-only school is a great idea. What's truly crazy is spending the energy and funds to make a center school out of Cooper, a great school on its own merits, when there are two other center middle schools in the area. The fact that they're overcrowded is the fault of FCPS and their lax AAP admittance standards.

I would propose to renovate Langley HS, move the Cooper and Longfellow non-AAP kids (they'll be about 1600 of them in a few years) to the facility, and relocate Langley HS to the existing Cooper building. If you think this is without precedent, consider that Falls Church HS used to be Whittier Middle School and Sandburg MS used to be Fort Hunt HS.

How's that sound? Do I have buy-in from the Langley parents?

Longfellow center-only would not really be fair to those outside of Cluster 1 who would not be offered that opportunity. If they made one school Level IV in each pyramid, that's one thing, but they don't...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are several posters you're arguing with too. And no, I don't think my position is inconsistent at all -- I think both our children should be in the program that is educationally appropriate for them.

Which comes back to the fact that both of you would apparently be happy if Cooper remained without AAP, and Longfellow were coverted to AAP-only, but that isn't going to play well south of Route 123.

Glad we got that sorted out!

Hmm, no I don't think Longfellow should be only AAP -- that's someone else & I think it's crazy talk And actually I think a real center at Cooper is a good idea -- if well planned and the school is given the resources & space it needs.

And I feel a Longfellow center-only school is a great idea. What's truly crazy is spending the energy and funds to make a center school out of Cooper, a great school on its own merits, when there are two other center middle schools in the area. The fact that they're overcrowded is the fault of FCPS and their lax AAP admittance standards.