Anonymous wrote:You're being quite overdramatic, 10:51. So called "G&T students", the majority of which are really just academically advanced students, are not being mistreated, ignored or forgotten. They're excelling in their schools. You'd like them to be given greater resources for acceleration. That's a great idea, but a foolish way to allocate resources.

The fact of the matter is that there are very few truly gifted students in DCPS. There are few truly gifted students anywhere. For these students, families do what they have had to do for generations. They seek enrichment outside the school. If you have an art prodigy, you seek extra art classes. If you have a sports prodigy, you seek travel teams and soccer camp. If you have a math prodigy, you seek enrichment. That is how parents of truly gifted children navigate the educational environment.

When it comes to resource allocation, addressing the areas of greatest need is the most efficient way to improve schools. The "G&T" kids are not the greatest need. They access the curriculum just fine.

As for using IDEA to argue that being smart is a disability, well, that makes no sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well then, we're almost in agreement. The whole idea of IEPs for gifted kids is offensive (to parents of kids with disabilities) and not allowed and illegal under IDEA not just inappropriate or a bad idea.

It seems that where our disagreement lies is that G&T kids deserve attention. The disagreement is that you think of those kids as over-coddled "snowflakes," where I think of them as our under-served future. THIS is the point the very original poster was getting at -- how do we reach these kids (with IDEA being raised as one possible means to an end)?

Nobody on here is still arguing for an IEP as the answer, as far as I can tell. They are arguing that G&T kids need attention, and aren't getting it. Other posters keep circling back to legal reasons why IDEA doesn't support G&T, so G&T parents are SOL. This is really a thinly veiled argument that G&T kids don't deserve anything at all.

On that point, I disagree strongly. For those kids that receive nothing but daycare from DCPS, I believe they do deserve better. These kids are not "snowflakes" -- they are ignored, forgotten, and mistreated.

My children are cared for. I don't argue on their behalf. I argue for the uncounted kids who are not being cared for. They need to be reached, and yet we do nothing but block progress.

So, for the ignorant masses that choose to stick to resistance at all costs, I will open a new thread, that starts from this point. What can be done for these kids?

Anonymous wrote:Well then, we're almost in agreement. The whole idea of IEPs for gifted kids is offensive (to parents of kids with disabilities) and not allowed and illegal under IDEA not just inappropriate or a bad idea.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My child's IEP does not address academics. DS has no academic issues and excels academically. His IEP addresses those aspects of his disability that can have an academic impact; In our DS's case, social/communication issues. As everyone has told you, an IEP is about putting in a floor so kids with disabilities can "access the curriculum" - the existing curriculum that everyone else gets.

As pp said, why don't you send your gifted kid to Basis... or start your own school.

Well done -- that's the way to take potshots at your own troops! I was actually in agreement, you know? I just like to give people a chance to voice their opinions, so that a good idea doesn't get buried under a bunch of flak.

That particular child does attend BASIS already. Never, ever, ever claimed that IEPs were bad things, nor that we wanted one or needed one. They are needed for some kids. As an avenue for serving G&T, not so much. Very inappropriate IMHO.

As for BASIS serving the G&T community, it really doesn't. It's just the best option available right now. Acceleration is not as good as depth, and while BASIS provides some good avenues for depth, they still force acceleration on kids. It gets them to nice AP statistics faster, which helps their business model. I don't ascribe to the "it's a race" model of education.

Anonymous wrote:
My child's IEP does not address academics. DS has no academic issues and excels academically. His IEP addresses those aspects of his disability that can have an academic impact; In our DS's case, social/communication issues. As everyone has told you, an IEP is about putting in a floor so kids with disabilities can "access the curriculum" - the existing curriculum that everyone else gets.

As pp said, why don't you send your gifted kid to Basis... or start your own school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My special needs child with IEP has a FSIQ of 155 on the WISC. You have no idea what you are yammering about.

Not targeted at you, obviously. It was targeted at a more general audience who doesn't realize how much difference there is between kids. Yeah, I do know. My kid (12) has been labeled 2e due to OCD, anxiety disorder, and borderline Asperger's.

What is "borderline" Asperger's? My kid with the 155 IQ has Asperger's and I've never heard this...

DS is in elementary school at a charter. Not bored or any other issues even though his NT classmates are not geniuses.

Same. Our developmental pediatrician said that he was 2 points shy of the label. That's borderline.

Are you talking about ADOS scoring? My child got the diagnosis for ASD by 2 points. But I was informed you either have it or you don't. There is no borderline. I guess if you miss it by 1 or 2 points, it men's you have many traits for ASD but don't qualify for the diagnosis.

That's incorrect. There's no precise quantification, hard criteria, or science to diagnosing Aspergers. There are a number of traits identified in DSM-5 that are associated with Aspergers, but from there, like with so many other areas of Autism spectrum disorder, it's a judgement call.

It's a judgement call but ADOS/ADI-R testing tries to quantify and make diagnosis less subjective.

ADOS/ADI-R testing for Autism Spectrum Disorder is considered the gold standard for ASD diagnosis and is available at Children's, KKI, Stixrud, etc.

As long as we're all in agreement (on DCUM!).

Actually, I was the parent with the original "borderline" comment. I really didn't expect to see such venom resulting from the comment. We were just a couple of points shy of the label, not that we wanted one. We weren't looking for an IEP or anything -- we were trying to understand our child's needs. I'm sure we could have found a satisfactory doctor if we wanted to get a label, but what would that really gain us?

Differentiation via IEP would still be crap differentiation in our child's case. Every kid is different, though. I could see where an IEP could help a good number of kids, but a few will never be served by our current, busted-up educational system. Instead of creating a new program within the current model, I'd rather fund competitive models or start requiring our teachers to build knowledge in their actual content area each year.

I wonder why someone doesn't create a hybrid of the BASIS & Responsive Ed charters, with actual teachers & curriculum like BASIS, but with the individualization of Responsive Ed (minus the dogma)? Stanford OHS looks great, but expensive. It's big drawback, though, is its late start for the high school, or the limited breadth of the EPGY program.

That's a topic for another thread, though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue isn't so much whether a kid is "truly gifted" but the fact that if your kid is just a little bit above average that probably puts them in the top 5% at most schools. When you have kids entering middle schools (NOT DEAL, Basis or Latin) that are still reading at a 2nd grade level because DCPS can't hold anyone back...then yeah, your kid who is above average sure does look "gifted" and will be bored in class at least when they aren't expected to be tuturing their classmates. This is where DC is failing miserably and then continues to act so surprised that pretty much every parent who demands more for their kid jumps ship in 4th grade to try and get into Latin, Basis, Deal, private or move.

Come on now, is there something in the water in DC that produces all these GIFTED children, of course not. They seem Gifted because the standards at DCPS are so low and in some schools the literacy level is extremely low. In reality, we have no more G&T children than any other state, and no states can use an IEP purely because a child is G&T.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White men most certainly can sue if they're discriminated against on the basis of their race or sex.

ut

People can sue for anything... But anti discrimination laws don't apply to them.

Yes they do. A white man at a majority minority company or with a minority boss can sue for racial discrimination. A white man with a female boss can sue for sex discrimination. Most white men over 40 sue for age discrimination. But these laws apply across the board. IDEA does not and should not.

WTF.

Do you think IDEA was created by DCPS? What is wrong with folk, really!!!!

The point I was making was that anti-discrimination laws apply to everyone - you can be discriminated against based on gender whether you are male or female, based on race whether you are black or white, based on national origin no matter what country you come from, including America, etc. Everyone has a gender, a race, a national origin, a religion (even if it is atheism). Everyone has the right to sue under these laws, and even white men have succeeded in rare cases. Their cases cannot be dismissed just because they are white or male.

Age discrimination is more like IDEA - no one under 40 has the right to sue.

IDEA applies to a particular class of children - those who are disabled, and what constitutes a disability is specifically enumerated - a pp has given the list. Gifted is not a category.

They are both federal laws. But legally, there is a gigantic difference between a neutrally worded law or statute that applies "across the board" and a law or statute that specifically lists who is covered (and anyone else by definition is not). That is why legally IDEA is not the appropriate law for OP to focus on, because OP's child has no standing to sue.

Furthermore, politically, as many others have pointed out, given the purpose of IDEA, trying to define a gifted child as disabled per se is offensive to many parents of disabled children because of the reasons the law was enacted and the types of children the law is designed to protect, and thus not a good strategy.

None of that has anything to do with DCPS. I would add though that DCPS has so many problems meeting the needs of children with and without disabilities that I think the entire argument would be better made in a jurisdiction that is not scoring last on the NAEP in the entire country (Mississippi is next to last).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My special needs child with IEP has a FSIQ of 155 on the WISC. You have no idea what you are yammering about.

Not targeted at you, obviously. It was targeted at a more general audience who doesn't realize how much difference there is between kids. Yeah, I do know. My kid (12) has been labeled 2e due to OCD, anxiety disorder, and borderline Asperger's.

What is "borderline" Asperger's? My kid with the 155 IQ has Asperger's and I've never heard this...

DS is in elementary school at a charter. Not bored or any other issues even though his NT classmates are not geniuses.

Same. Our developmental pediatrician said that he was 2 points shy of the label. That's borderline.

Are you talking about ADOS scoring? My child got the diagnosis for ASD by 2 points. But I was informed you either have it or you don't. There is no borderline. I guess if you miss it by 1 or 2 points, it men's you have many traits for ASD but don't qualify for the diagnosis.

That's incorrect. There's no precise quantification, hard criteria, or science to diagnosing Aspergers. There are a number of traits identified in DSM-5 that are associated with Aspergers, but from there, like with so many other areas of Autism spectrum disorder, it's a judgement call.

It's a judgement call but ADOS/ADI-R testing tries to quantify and make diagnosis less subjective.

ADOS/ADI-R testing for Autism Spectrum Disorder is considered the gold standard for ASD diagnosis and is available at Children's, KKI, Stixrud, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My special needs child with IEP has a FSIQ of 155 on the WISC. You have no idea what you are yammering about.

Not targeted at you, obviously. It was targeted at a more general audience who doesn't realize how much difference there is between kids. Yeah, I do know. My kid (12) has been labeled 2e due to OCD, anxiety disorder, and borderline Asperger's.

What is "borderline" Asperger's? My kid with the 155 IQ has Asperger's and I've never heard this...

DS is in elementary school at a charter. Not bored or any other issues even though his NT classmates are not geniuses.

Same. Our developmental pediatrician said that he was 2 points shy of the label. That's borderline.

Are you talking about ADOS scoring? My child got the diagnosis for ASD by 2 points. But I was informed you either have it or you don't. There is no borderline. I guess if you miss it by 1 or 2 points, it men's you have many traits for ASD but don't qualify for the diagnosis.

That's incorrect. There's no precise quantification, hard criteria, or science to diagnosing Aspergers. There are a number of traits identified in DSM-5 that are associated with Aspergers, but from there, like with so many other areas of Autism spectrum disorder, it's a judgement call.

It's a judgement call but ADOS/ADI-R testing tries to quantify and make diagnosis less subjective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My special needs child with IEP has a FSIQ of 155 on the WISC. You have no idea what you are yammering about.

Not targeted at you, obviously. It was targeted at a more general audience who doesn't realize how much difference there is between kids. Yeah, I do know. My kid (12) has been labeled 2e due to OCD, anxiety disorder, and borderline Asperger's.

What is "borderline" Asperger's? My kid with the 155 IQ has Asperger's and I've never heard this...

DS is in elementary school at a charter. Not bored or any other issues even though his NT classmates are not geniuses.

Same. Our developmental pediatrician said that he was 2 points shy of the label. That's borderline.

Are you talking about ADOS scoring? My child got the diagnosis for ASD by 2 points. But I was informed you either have it or you don't. There is no borderline. I guess if you miss it by 1 or 2 points, it men's you have many traits for ASD but don't qualify for the diagnosis.

That's incorrect. There's no precise quantification, hard criteria, or science to diagnosing Aspergers. There are a number of traits identified in DSM-5 that are associated with Aspergers, but from there, like with so many other areas of Autism spectrum disorder, it's a judgement call.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My special needs child with IEP has a FSIQ of 155 on the WISC. You have no idea what you are yammering about.

Not targeted at you, obviously. It was targeted at a more general audience who doesn't realize how much difference there is between kids. Yeah, I do know. My kid (12) has been labeled 2e due to OCD, anxiety disorder, and borderline Asperger's.

What is "borderline" Asperger's? My kid with the 155 IQ has Asperger's and I've never heard this...

DS is in elementary school at a charter. Not bored or any other issues even though his NT classmates are not geniuses.

Same. Our developmental pediatrician said that he was 2 points shy of the label. That's borderline.

Are you talking about ADOS scoring? My child got the diagnosis for ASD by 2 points. But I was informed you either have it or you don't. There is no borderline. I guess if you miss it by 1 or 2 points, it men's you have many traits for ASD but don't qualify for the diagnosis.

That's incorrect. There's no precise quantification, hard criteria, or science to diagnosing Aspergers. There are a number of traits identified in DSM-5 that are associated with Aspergers, but from there, like with so many other areas of Autism spectrum disorder, it's a judgement call.