Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If i was the parent of one of the other two girls I would be encouraging them to step back from their friendship with OP's daughter.

I would be fine with them being brought home early and being told that they had done something that had upset their friend. I would absolutely talk to my daughter about the importance of considering how other people might feel about something they think it funny, and of the vulnerability of doing something to someone thinking. I think there are a lot of teachable moments and opportunities for learning in a situation like this.

I would find the 3 am email, the early morning confrontation that assumed their intentions were cruel and bullying (and not asking them their reasoning first, and the inability of their friend to cope with this as big red flags that this is a friendship that is likely going to be more problems than fun. I would talk to my own daughter about how everyone is different and that some people are much , much more sensitive than others. that while this isn't a good or a bad thing that friendships with people who are extremely sensitive can be exhausting and difficult. I wouldn't stand in the way of the friendship in any way, I would just encourage my daughter to reflect on how this friendship feels to her and that is she feels she is being made out to be mean and a bully and she is always having to apologize for someone else's hurt feelings, then she should re-evaluate the friendship. I would probably also avoid having OP's daughter over as Op isn't really a mom I want to have to deal with.

You manage to throw the real blame off onto OP's daughter for being "extremely sensitive." Wow.

When you talked to your own theoretical daughter "about how everyone is different and that some people are much, much more sensitive" and so forth, would you bother to add that what she herself did was simply wrong? It looks like the entire focus would be on how OP's child is too sensitive and this friendship won't be much "fun." Nothing about the responsibility of the girls for making their supposed friend upset. no matter what their "reasoning" (and you really expect OP to calmly ask these girls their "reasoning" for this?). Your explanation would let your kid feel that she had no real responsibility for upsetting her friend because, well, her friend should have been able to take the joke but darn, she's so sensitive.

You'd only tell your theoretical kid that she should have thought about how others might feel. So what follows?

Even if she meant it to be funny and it backfired -- if she isn't remorseful and doesn't do something to apologize -- really apologize -- the kid is off the hook.

Yeah, OP overreacted to a degree, but if the parents of the other girls were as soft as you recommend, this would all be treated by those parents and kids as, "Oh, sorry she didn't get the joke" and not as "We ended up really upsetting you, that was wrong, and we are sorry." Huge difference.

Even if the kids meant it purely as a joke, they are still responsible for upsetting the kid who is supposedly a friend. If they feel nothing about having upset a friend, or only feel anger that this girl got upset and went to her mom -- they were never her friends to start with.

Of course I would tell her that what she did was wrong - this sounds like a joke that got out of hand. They probably thought it would be funny to give her a make-over and then got carried away and put too much make-up on. I have a 12 yr old girl. She does stuff fairly often that makes me ask her what made her think that was a good idea. Not every single thing they do is completely rational and well thought out. And we talk about why it wasn't a good idea and how it might have impacted or affected others and herself (negatively). And no I don't think my kids are responsible for the feelings of others. I think that is a horrible burden to place on anyone - your boyfriend is angry - daughter that is your fault. My daughter is responsible for her actions and in this case an apology is in order, however another friend would have reacted completely differently - thinking it was funny that they played a prank so it isn't some unwritten rule that playing a prank = total devastation. Lots of people have senses of humor - there are probably actually millions of people the world over who have had something written on them while they slept and most have laughed it off. Maybe the girls already knew that OPs daughter would fall apart if they drew on her and they did it anyways but I would say more likely than not, they didn't know that. I really don't want my daughter to have friends that label her mean, a bully, sociopathic, a hater, or who make a big scene for a joke that went to far or was not well received. I get that is what some posters on this thread think of those girls - that their only understanding is that those girls set out to be intentionally cruel and as someone who has a 12 yr old I disagree. I have seen my daughter do things that she thought were okay only to have them backfire and in the end it was a good lesson. She isn't a sociopath.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who knows, these girls really may have meant this as a joke and it was just in fun. Based on OP's DD's reaction, I doubt it. Kids tend to know what is funny/naughty vs. making fun of/mean.
Either way, why do I think that if DD's daughter did something similar to the girls as they slept (as in a retaliation make up job), the OP would be getting a couple of irate calls from those girls moms.
Funny how people dish it out (and almost taunt the other, nicer folks into daring to complain or challenge…so as to have another opportunity to cry "you are oversensitive" or "oh, it was just a joke").

+1000. Thankfully reasonable people have returned to this thread. OP you handledcit very well.

Agree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Perfect! Then we will both be happy. We have lots of friends and look for new friends to be people we don't have to walk on eggshells around so it works out great.

We also have a lot of friends, but we are kind and considerate of each other, and expect our children to act likewise.

As do we.

Really?! That's kind of hard to believe, since you were so quick to criticize the OP. You don't sound like a very kind or considerate person.

Well if being kind and considerate means you can never be critical then I guess you have ruled yourself out too as well as you just criticized me.

Anonymous wrote:I think kids trying to navigate social situations in these years is so hard. Kids are so self -focused that I wonder if other people are really "real" to them in some ways. This things they did probably started as a way for the other two to bond. There may have been some aggression or weirdness, or whatever, but they probably were so wrapped up in their own feelings and insecurities that they were not thinking of how hurtful this would be or what the targeted kid was experiencing. I doubt they went into this thinking, "let's cause this other person an enormous amount of pain." I think as adults we interpret this kind of thing as a real betrayal (she was sleeping! in her own house! how could they!) when in fact it is just being young and stupid.

You are right. These type of innocent pranks in middle school are apparently commonplace. Here's a discussion from another forum of what young, stupid hijinks go on...harmless fun amongst friends...

When my friends and I were in middle school, we would all stay the night at a friends house whose parents would let 5-6 of us stay over every weekend. The kid who lived there would always be on the receiving end of our immature middle school pranks. We'd do anything that popped into our young little minds. One night we put some extremely spicy ghost pepper hot sauce on his lips as he was asleep. About 15 seconds later he woke up screaming as if he had been set on fire. Another night we turned out all of the lights and got all of our sleeping areas ready and layed down throughout his big room. Once everyone was set, one of us would hit him in the nuts and then as quickly and quietly as we could, we'd lay down and chuckle under our voices trying not to give ourselves away. And one night it was about 3am and it was just myself and another friend of mine staying over but his parents didn't know we were there. Some of our female friends (we are both males) invited us over to her house to hang out with her and a friend of hers. So as we were preparing to leave, my friend pulled out a bottle of KY jelly and sat it next to a rather large cucumber on our friends night stand and then tuned into some gay porn and blasted it as loud as it would go and then we got the fuck outta there laughing our asses off the whole walk over to our destination.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/156ixn/during_sleepovers_what_were_some_pranks_you_would/

I think kids trying to navigate social situations in these years is so hard. Kids are so self -focused that I wonder if other people are really "real" to them in some ways. This things they did probably started as a way for the other two to bond. There may have been some aggression or weirdness, or whatever, but they probably were so wrapped up in their own feelings and insecurities that they were not thinking of how hurtful this would be or what the targeted kid was experiencing. I doubt they went into this thinking, "let's cause this other person an enormous amount of pain." I think as adults we interpret this kind of thing as a real betrayal (she was sleeping! in her own house! how could they!) when in fact it is just being young and stupid.

I'm not excusing them. I'm just saying they may not be awful people -- they just made a terrible choice. I think talking calmly with them and cluing them into how uncool this was is the way to go. I know OP tried to get her daughter to talk, but I think her daughter should have been the primary talker. The reason I think that is for me, as a kid, if my parents were informed I would have been punished. The whole thing, instead of being a learning experience and a moment between me and the girl I had wronged, would become a source of shame and humiliation because my parents would have hit the roof and I would have been reminded of it every time I saw that girl, so it would have been hard to be friends, I think. Now these two other girls have the shared experience of being outed to their parents and that would bring them closer, and maybe make the third girl even more excluded...but who knows.

I think anyone who thinks of sending an email at 3 am should reconsider and not send it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Perfect! Then we will both be happy. We have lots of friends and look for new friends to be people we don't have to walk on eggshells around so it works out great.

We also have a lot of friends, but we are kind and considerate of each other, and expect our children to act likewise.

As do we.

Really?! That's kind of hard to believe, since you were so quick to criticize the OP. You don't sound like a very kind or considerate person.

Anonymous wrote:Who knows, these girls really may have meant this as a joke and it was just in fun. Based on OP's DD's reaction, I doubt it. Kids tend to know what is funny/naughty vs. making fun of/mean.
Either way, why do I think that if DD's daughter did something similar to the girls as they slept (as in a retaliation make up job), the OP would be getting a couple of irate calls from those girls moms.
Funny how people dish it out (and almost taunt the other, nicer folks into daring to complain or challenge…so as to have another opportunity to cry "you are oversensitive" or "oh, it was just a joke").

+1000. Thankfully reasonable people have returned to this thread. OP you handledcit very well.

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised that in eight pages of posts, no one has commented how weird it was that the girls ganged up on OP's daughter in her own home. I was both the victim and perpetrator of pranks in middle school,[/b] but you never targeted the kid who was having the party--because back then, everyone was a little afraid of other peoples' parents.[b]

I won't speak to my opinion OP's response. But if a girl did this to my child in my home, that's a huge sign of disrespect not just to my DD but to me.

To save my DD, I might have handled it more calmly, but those girls would not have been invited back. Ever.

I've made this observation too-- not only are some of my kid's friends not scared of me, they're rude ("I need your wi-fi code NOW") so I can see how this would happen. My biggest concern is that there would be pictures/videos that could be shared with others that would embarrass your daughter further. If my daughter did this to another girl, I would want to know but would be annoyed at receiving a lecture. It would likely be the end of any future time together at either house

Who knows, these girls really may have meant this as a joke and it was just in fun. Based on OP's DD's reaction, I doubt it. Kids tend to know what is funny/naughty vs. making fun of/mean.
Either way, why do I think that if DD's daughter did something similar to the girls as they slept (as in a retaliation make up job), the OP would be getting a couple of irate calls from those girls moms.
Funny how people dish it out (and almost taunt the other, nicer folks into daring to complain or challenge…so as to have another opportunity to cry "you are oversensitive" or "oh, it was just a joke").

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

thanks to all of those with supportive responses. I really appreciate those in here who show kindness and lack of judgment for everyone, both for my family and for the friends.

I have to emphasize to those who are minimizing the incident as "just glitter" that as I've noted before this was not just glitter. DD did not look like herself, and the incident involved much more than mounding products all over her face and hair. I will not get into details. it was difficult to see her that way.

Some of us may be more sensitive as others, but that never justifies excusing cruel behavior, however unintended it may be.

I am sorry that DC Urban Mom at some point always gets judgmental, so I will have to stop coming back here. I am happy about how I handled the situation, and happy about how my other parents handled it as well. It was a bad incident, we dealt with it, it is behind us, and we are moving on to strengthen ourselves.

If you happen to read this, I support you. I believe your DD should distance herself from them and start trying to get to know other girls.

Anonymous wrote:If i was the parent of one of the other two girls I would be encouraging them to step back from their friendship with OP's daughter.

I would be fine with them being brought home early and being told that they had done something that had upset their friend. I would absolutely talk to my daughter about the importance of considering how other people might feel about something they think it funny, and of the vulnerability of doing something to someone thinking. I think there are a lot of teachable moments and opportunities for learning in a situation like this.

I would find the 3 am email, the early morning confrontation that assumed their intentions were cruel and bullying (and not asking them their reasoning first, and the inability of their friend to cope with this as big red flags that this is a friendship that is likely going to be more problems than fun. I would talk to my own daughter about how everyone is different and that some people are much , much more sensitive than others. that while this isn't a good or a bad thing that friendships with people who are extremely sensitive can be exhausting and difficult. I wouldn't stand in the way of the friendship in any way, I would just encourage my daughter to reflect on how this friendship feels to her and that is she feels she is being made out to be mean and a bully and she is always having to apologize for someone else's hurt feelings, then she should re-evaluate the friendship. I would probably also avoid having OP's daughter over as Op isn't really a mom I want to have to deal with.

You manage to throw the real blame off onto OP's daughter for being "extremely sensitive." Wow.

When you talked to your own theoretical daughter "about how everyone is different and that some people are much, much more sensitive" and so forth, would you bother to add that what she herself did was simply wrong? It looks like the entire focus would be on how OP's child is too sensitive and this friendship won't be much "fun." Nothing about the responsibility of the girls for making their supposed friend upset. no matter what their "reasoning" (and you really expect OP to calmly ask these girls their "reasoning" for this?). Your explanation would let your kid feel that she had no real responsibility for upsetting her friend because, well, her friend should have been able to take the joke but darn, she's so sensitive.

You'd only tell your theoretical kid that she should have thought about how others might feel. So what follows?

Even if she meant it to be funny and it backfired -- if she isn't remorseful and doesn't do something to apologize -- really apologize -- the kid is off the hook.

Yeah, OP overreacted to a degree, but if the parents of the other girls were as soft as you recommend, this would all be treated by those parents and kids as, "Oh, sorry she didn't get the joke" and not as "We ended up really upsetting you, that was wrong, and we are sorry." Huge difference.

Even if the kids meant it purely as a joke, they are still responsible for upsetting the kid who is supposedly a friend. If they feel nothing about having upset a friend, or only feel anger that this girl got upset and went to her mom -- they were never her friends to start with.

Frankly, I think OP handled it wrong by not making her daughter be the primary one to confront the girls. I would have sent my child (a son) downstairs to wake the other kids up and ask them what the hell was going on, even if it was 3 am.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Perfect! Then we will both be happy. We have lots of friends and look for new friends to be people we don't have to walk on eggshells around so it works out great.

We also have a lot of friends, but we are kind and considerate of each other, and expect our children to act likewise.

As do we.

I'm surprised that in eight pages of posts, no one has commented how weird it was that the girls ganged up on OP's daughter in her own home. I was both the victim and perpetrator of pranks in middle school, but you never targeted the kid who was having the party--because back then, everyone was a little afraid of other peoples' parents.

I won't speak to my opinion OP's response. But if a girl did this to my child in my home, that's a huge sign of disrespect not just to my DD but to me.

To save my DD, I might have handled it more calmly, but those girls would not have been invited back. Ever.

Anonymous wrote:
Perfect! Then we will both be happy. We have lots of friends and look for new friends to be people we don't have to walk on eggshells around so it works out great.

We also have a lot of friends, but we are kind and considerate of each other, and expect our children to act likewise.