OP your question has been answered. You don't accept the answers. I guess you will continue to be confused.

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Anonymous wrote:The point is NOT that anybody is butthurt that you're celebrating Christmas. So stop already with the dumb deflection of "don't tell us how to celebrate Christmas", because that's not the question being asked here.

The point is, WHY? It would be like me celebrating Eid or Hannukah, and then bitching about the gifts and visiting relatives.

Where in the bible does it say "Christmas" is about exchanging gifts and visiting relatives???

I would totally understand if Christians celebrated Christmas by leaving gifts at the altar in churches, in an re-enactment the Magi, with the intention of those gifts going to baby Jesus. But giving grandpa a sweater? It's not grandpa's birthday. It's Jesus' birthday. So why is grandpa getting a sweater???

If non-Christians were leaving those gifts at church, or taking the time to go to Bethlehem, maybe I'd understand your total confusion and frustration. But from what I see, non-Christians are celebrating all the non-Christian aspects of the holiday. What I don't get is why you Christians have added these non-Christian aspects to your holiday in the first place. Maybe the real thing is to stop blaming us and start blaming yourself for appropriating practices that have nothing to do with Jesus' birthday.

Oh please.... Stop with the blame-talk already. And explain why you want anything to do with this holiday that still has many religious aspects. TIA!

People have explained a lot of reasons on this thread. You're not interested in understanding. You just want to fight.

Okay, then. Carry on.

Who wants to fight? You. You're clearly here for a reason. Frankly, your endless baiting and the other PP's sophomoric stuff about Saturn (ha, ha, how original ) are really boring. I for one am out of here. Bye....

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Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. My entire family is Catholic. My DH was raised Catholic. My DH's family is Catholic.

Our families celebrate Christmas. We celebrate it, too. It's within our cultural heritage. We are secular Catholics, the way some people are secular Jews.

I don't see what's weird about it.

It contradicts your commitment to atheism? That's what's weird. Atheists shouldn't celebrate the birth of a deity.

DH and I are atheists. Our children are not. They are being raised in a religion that they can decide to reject when they are older. I think religion gives a moral frame work to life. Atheism's philosophical frame work is harder to pass on to children. You have to want to be a nice person because there is no external factor like heaven or hell. So we do Christmas and take our kids to mass on Christmas Eve. We participate in a cultural ritual that we don't believe in because we, and more specifically our kids, are a part of society.

I agree that kids need a moral framework. What you do is fascinating. Do you take them to church every Sunday or only on Christmas Eve?

We try to go once or twice a month. Why is this fascinating? I assumed most people do this.

That's your problem right there. Why do you think others are like you? No, this is really peculiar.

I think atheism is too much for little kids. Do other atheist just tell their kids there is nothing?

Yes. That is exactly what we told our kids. We are a fluke of the universe. We are as ephmeral as butterflies, and just as beautiful. There is nothing after death. There is no meaning to this life except what we make it, so you should work hard to make your life mean something beautiful or great or kind. They had an existential crisis getting their heads around it when they were very small, but they were over it by age 6 or 7.

BTW, we celebrate Christmas. My very Catholic parents insist on it. When DS#1 was two months old, my mother bought a tree and ornaments and a creche and descended on my house with it. She was leaving until we put it all up.

(She also DIY baptized the babies in the bathtub. She thinks I don't know, but she told my little brother. Whatever. It made her feel better.)

The nice thing about having your own children is you can raise them the way you see fit. Although other posters have said I am a failure as a parent because I am raising them with a religion they are free to reject when they are older, I think you are free to make your own choice with your kids. I disliked your comment earlier that I am a failed parent for my choice.

?

I didn't say that. Different poster.

You may like the book "Parenting beyond belief" for ideas to raise your kids with a good moral structure without having to rely on religion. Or at least help you think some of these issues with concrete examples and ideas.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is NOT that anybody is butthurt that you're celebrating Christmas. So stop already with the dumb deflection of "don't tell us how to celebrate Christmas", because that's not the question being asked here.

The point is, WHY? It would be like me celebrating Eid or Hannukah, and then bitching about the gifts and visiting relatives.

Where in the bible does it say "Christmas" is about exchanging gifts and visiting relatives???

I would totally understand if Christians celebrated Christmas by leaving gifts at the altar in churches, in an re-enactment the Magi, with the intention of those gifts going to baby Jesus. But giving grandpa a sweater? It's not grandpa's birthday. It's Jesus' birthday. So why is grandpa getting a sweater???

If non-Christians were leaving those gifts at church, or taking the time to go to Bethlehem, maybe I'd understand your total confusion and frustration. But from what I see, non-Christians are celebrating all the non-Christian aspects of the holiday. What I don't get is why you Christians have added these non-Christian aspects to your holiday in the first place. Maybe the real thing is to stop blaming us and start blaming yourself for appropriating practices that have nothing to do with Jesus' birthday.

Oh please.... Stop with the blame-talk already. And explain why you want anything to do with this holiday that still has many religious aspects. TIA!

What religious aspects do you see atheists celebrating?

My family has a tree and stockings and gives presents and we have a big family dinner. We play board games and video games all day. We donate some toys to Toys for Tots and we give some money to Heifer International and Doctors without Borders. We bake cookies and donate stuff to the school. My kids participate in the school Christmas concert which is mostly secular music. We watch some Christmas specials -- this year we watched Phineas and Ferb and Lady Gag and the Muppets.

We don't do Santa or go to church or listen to a lot of religious Christmas music. We don't listen to a lot of Christmas music, period, because it tends to suck. We don't do advent calendars. We don't read the Bible story of the Birth. We don't go to Christmas plays with religious themes. We don't go to music events with religious themes.

We're way more on the Saturnalia end of the celebration than the Christian end of the celebration.

I celebrate the coming of Santa Clause on Christmas. So no, I don't think it is strange. What I find strange is celebrating the birth of Christ in the middle of winter when the bible indicates he was born in summer or fall.

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Anonymous wrote:BTW, OP... Christmas is over. Did you really need to pick ONE more fight over what other people are doing for the holidays, rather than live and let live?

I didn't mean to pick a fight. And technically it's not really over. I was just genuinely baffled and curious. Seems so odd to me.

Did you confess that you judge others before you received communion yesterday?

Now you have just exposed your ignorance. Nobody goes to church on Christmas Day. I don't think any churches even have services, unless it happens to fall on Sunday.

That's odd the national cathedral was packed for the Christmas day service.

Catholics always have Mass on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. It's the biggest Mass of the year.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW, OP... Christmas is over. Did you really need to pick ONE more fight over what other people are doing for the holidays, rather than live and let live?

I didn't mean to pick a fight. And technically it's not really over. I was just genuinely baffled and curious. Seems so odd to me.

Did you confess that you judge others before you received communion yesterday?

Now you have just exposed your ignorance. Nobody goes to church on Christmas Day. I don't think any churches even have services, unless it happens to fall on Sunday.

That's odd the national cathedral was packed for the Christmas day service.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is NOT that anybody is butthurt that you're celebrating Christmas. So stop already with the dumb deflection of "don't tell us how to celebrate Christmas", because that's not the question being asked here.

The point is, WHY? It would be like me celebrating Eid or Hannukah, and then bitching about the gifts and visiting relatives.

Where in the bible does it say "Christmas" is about exchanging gifts and visiting relatives???

I would totally understand if Christians celebrated Christmas by leaving gifts at the altar in churches, in an re-enactment the Magi, with the intention of those gifts going to baby Jesus. But giving grandpa a sweater? It's not grandpa's birthday. It's Jesus' birthday. So why is grandpa getting a sweater???

If non-Christians were leaving those gifts at church, or taking the time to go to Bethlehem, maybe I'd understand your total confusion and frustration. But from what I see, non-Christians are celebrating all the non-Christian aspects of the holiday. What I don't get is why you Christians have added these non-Christian aspects to your holiday in the first place. Maybe the real thing is to stop blaming us and start blaming yourself for appropriating practices that have nothing to do with Jesus' birthday.

Oh please.... Stop with the blame-talk already. And explain why you want anything to do with this holiday that still has many religious aspects. TIA!

People have explained a lot of reasons on this thread. You're not interested in understanding. You just want to fight.

Okay, then. Carry on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is NOT that anybody is butthurt that you're celebrating Christmas. So stop already with the dumb deflection of "don't tell us how to celebrate Christmas", because that's not the question being asked here.

The point is, WHY? It would be like me celebrating Eid or Hannukah, and then bitching about the gifts and visiting relatives.

Where in the bible does it say "Christmas" is about exchanging gifts and visiting relatives???

I would totally understand if Christians celebrated Christmas by leaving gifts at the altar in churches, in an re-enactment the Magi, with the intention of those gifts going to baby Jesus. But giving grandpa a sweater? It's not grandpa's birthday. It's Jesus' birthday. So why is grandpa getting a sweater???

If non-Christians were leaving those gifts at church, or taking the time to go to Bethlehem, maybe I'd understand your total confusion and frustration. But from what I see, non-Christians are celebrating all the non-Christian aspects of the holiday. What I don't get is why you Christians have added these non-Christian aspects to your holiday in the first place. Maybe the real thing is to stop blaming us and start blaming yourself for appropriating practices that have nothing to do with Jesus' birthday.

Oh please.... Stop with the blame-talk already. And explain why you want anything to do with this holiday that still has many religious aspects. TIA!

Consider reading the Neil Gaiman essay I posted earlier (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/neil-gaiman-hanukkah-with-bells-on-1203307.html) -- if you're Christian, perhaps you don't really see how omnipresent Christmas is in the US, and how hard it can be to be someone of another faith (a child, in particular) who is effectively not invited to the national party.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is NOT that anybody is butthurt that you're celebrating Christmas. So stop already with the dumb deflection of "don't tell us how to celebrate Christmas", because that's not the question being asked here.

The point is, WHY? It would be like me celebrating Eid or Hannukah, and then bitching about the gifts and visiting relatives.

Where in the bible does it say "Christmas" is about exchanging gifts and visiting relatives???

I would totally understand if Christians celebrated Christmas by leaving gifts at the altar in churches, in an re-enactment the Magi, with the intention of those gifts going to baby Jesus. But giving grandpa a sweater? It's not grandpa's birthday. It's Jesus' birthday. So why is grandpa getting a sweater???

If non-Christians were leaving those gifts at church, or taking the time to go to Bethlehem, maybe I'd understand your total confusion and frustration. But from what I see, non-Christians are celebrating all the non-Christian aspects of the holiday. What I don't get is why you Christians have added these non-Christian aspects to your holiday in the first place. Maybe the real thing is to stop blaming us and start blaming yourself for appropriating practices that have nothing to do with Jesus' birthday.

Gift giving, particularly giving toys to children, is a tradition left over from the celebration of Saturnalia. It's part of the pagan traditions.

+1. As a Saturn inhabitant, I implore you terrestrials not to pollute our millennial celebration with your pettiness. If you want to celebrate with us, please do so. If you don't want to, please leave us alone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is NOT that anybody is butthurt that you're celebrating Christmas. So stop already with the dumb deflection of "don't tell us how to celebrate Christmas", because that's not the question being asked here.

The point is, WHY? It would be like me celebrating Eid or Hannukah, and then bitching about the gifts and visiting relatives.

Where in the bible does it say "Christmas" is about exchanging gifts and visiting relatives???

I would totally understand if Christians celebrated Christmas by leaving gifts at the altar in churches, in an re-enactment the Magi, with the intention of those gifts going to baby Jesus. But giving grandpa a sweater? It's not grandpa's birthday. It's Jesus' birthday. So why is grandpa getting a sweater???

If non-Christians were leaving those gifts at church, or taking the time to go to Bethlehem, maybe I'd understand your total confusion and frustration. But from what I see, non-Christians are celebrating all the non-Christian aspects of the holiday. What I don't get is why you Christians have added these non-Christian aspects to your holiday in the first place. Maybe the real thing is to stop blaming us and start blaming yourself for appropriating practices that have nothing to do with Jesus' birthday.

+1. Plus, it is known at this time that historical figure Jesus was NOT born on the night of December 24th...so one can perfectly fine celebrate family, love and generosity in a universal way that has little to do with any religion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is NOT that anybody is butthurt that you're celebrating Christmas. So stop already with the dumb deflection of "don't tell us how to celebrate Christmas", because that's not the question being asked here.

The point is, WHY? It would be like me celebrating Eid or Hannukah, and then bitching about the gifts and visiting relatives.

Where in the bible does it say "Christmas" is about exchanging gifts and visiting relatives???

I would totally understand if Christians celebrated Christmas by leaving gifts at the altar in churches, in an re-enactment the Magi, with the intention of those gifts going to baby Jesus. But giving grandpa a sweater? It's not grandpa's birthday. It's Jesus' birthday. So why is grandpa getting a sweater???

If non-Christians were leaving those gifts at church, or taking the time to go to Bethlehem, maybe I'd understand your total confusion and frustration. But from what I see, non-Christians are celebrating all the non-Christian aspects of the holiday. What I don't get is why you Christians have added these non-Christian aspects to your holiday in the first place. Maybe the real thing is to stop blaming us and start blaming yourself for appropriating practices that have nothing to do with Jesus' birthday.

Oh please.... Stop with the blame-talk already. And explain why you want anything to do with this holiday that still has many religious aspects. TIA!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is NOT that anybody is butthurt that you're celebrating Christmas. So stop already with the dumb deflection of "don't tell us how to celebrate Christmas", because that's not the question being asked here.

The point is, WHY? It would be like me celebrating Eid or Hannukah, and then bitching about the gifts and visiting relatives.

Where in the bible does it say "Christmas" is about exchanging gifts and visiting relatives???

I would totally understand if Christians celebrated Christmas by leaving gifts at the altar in churches, in an re-enactment the Magi, with the intention of those gifts going to baby Jesus. But giving grandpa a sweater? It's not grandpa's birthday. It's Jesus' birthday. So why is grandpa getting a sweater???

If non-Christians were leaving those gifts at church, or taking the time to go to Bethlehem, maybe I'd understand your total confusion and frustration. But from what I see, non-Christians are celebrating all the non-Christian aspects of the holiday. What I don't get is why you Christians have added these non-Christian aspects to your holiday in the first place. Maybe the real thing is to stop blaming us and start blaming yourself for appropriating practices that have nothing to do with Jesus' birthday.

Gift giving, particularly giving toys to children, is a tradition left over from the celebration of Saturnalia. It's part of the pagan traditions.

Anonymous wrote:The point is NOT that anybody is butthurt that you're celebrating Christmas. So stop already with the dumb deflection of "don't tell us how to celebrate Christmas", because that's not the question being asked here.

The point is, WHY? It would be like me celebrating Eid or Hannukah, and then bitching about the gifts and visiting relatives.

Where in the bible does it say "Christmas" is about exchanging gifts and visiting relatives???

I would totally understand if Christians celebrated Christmas by leaving gifts at the altar in churches, in an re-enactment the Magi, with the intention of those gifts going to baby Jesus. But giving grandpa a sweater? It's not grandpa's birthday. It's Jesus' birthday. So why is grandpa getting a sweater???

If non-Christians were leaving those gifts at church, or taking the time to go to Bethlehem, maybe I'd understand your total confusion and frustration. But from what I see, non-Christians are celebrating all the non-Christian aspects of the holiday. What I don't get is why you Christians have added these non-Christian aspects to your holiday in the first place. Maybe the real thing is to stop blaming us and start blaming yourself for appropriating practices that have nothing to do with Jesus' birthday.

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Anonymous wrote:I did. I'm just a normal Methodist, not even evangelical or anything. But I find it very odd and confusing. And a little bewildered when people insist it's a "cultural" holiday (but then turn around and insist this is not a Christian nation).

But whatever. If you ask them what they're celebrating, they'll say "the joys of family" or whatever. Why they can't just have themselves a family reunion in the summer or take Thanksgiving as an opportunity to do these things, I don't know.

The partaking of all the rituals and symbolism of Christmas while insisting you're not "Christian" is really strange to me.

I find this to be so dog-in-manger and selfish and not Christian that I just want to start laughing. Do you seriously resent the presence of non-Christians at a Christian holiday? Do you think Jesus would resent them or turn them away? Didn't he welcome everyone, including tax collectors and prostitutes?

On the contrary, everyone is welcome at the Lord's table. So, you'll be in church next week, right?

I assume you're a Christian. A non-Christian wouldn't presume to speak for Jesus.

Did you know, the answer to "What Would Jesus Do?" is "Not get defensive and snarky."