Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you try to get a paralegal position in an employment law practice group. Your experience is relevant and you will get a taste of the more "legal" side of what you already do.

OP here. Ideally, I would aim at getting a job at one of the national employment firms -- Jackson Lewis, Seyfarth Shaw, Littler Mendolsohn are some of the ones I am aware of. I think my work experience is relevant and should outweigh any issues with the rank of my school or how I do in law school. I just have to get an interview. You have all given me something to think about, though. Even when I get hired at a big firm I may hate it and it doesn't look like I will get any money from a school to attend so I will owe a lot... #decisionsdecisions

Have you done any research OP? First of all, American is still in the first tier and both UMD and American are very competitive. Secondly, Littler doesn't hire any associates out of law school. Their model is that they only hire laterals. Those are pretty good firms. You will spend $200K to make $100K a year if you are really lucky.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally I would go to med school or become a physician assistant. Or like someone else said maybe even a dentist. I feel like there will be more growth in that area.

That said I know a few lawyers in their 20s and all seem to be doing well.

What dentistry does have good income potential and all, I think it would be late for OP to make such a career move. OP would probably have to take 2 years of pre-reqs before dental school. Then dental school is 4 years of intense schooling and quite possibly a decent amount of debt.

I agree that it's too late for that, especially if OP plans to have children at some point. Besides, that's a lot od fairly hard studying which doesn't seem to be OPs forte.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I do not think equity partners at Miles are billing 1400. In my department, it was more like 2000+. Could vary by department, though. There seems to be this "midlaw" myth where partners coast along making a few hundred grand and work 9-5. I would like to see this if it exists.

The bigger myth on these boards at the moment seems to be "Since there are reasons to think biglaw is facing serious challenges, it is safer to be at midlaw." Its like some posters read Abovethelaw and their takeaway was that justifying your rates is something only large law firms have to do.

I haven't read ATL in literally years, but I know when I left BigLaw, my rate went from $550 to $400 and my clients came with me, and my salary went up while my hours went down.

At my regional firm, partners bill about 1,500 hours and make about $400K. Not a bad life.

At smaller firms (truly boutiques) where my friends ended up, they bill maybe 1,200 hours and make about $300K. Perhaps an even better life.

I don't doubt you. My issue is last time this came up and a few people attempted to explain why they were happy not fleeing big law, there was a slew of "apparently you haven't read any legal news recently" comments. I don't think what's happening in the legal market is a reason to choose mid-size over large (though there may well be other good reasons to do so).

Anonymous wrote:Personally I would go to med school or become a physician assistant. Or like someone else said maybe even a dentist. I feel like there will be more growth in that area.

That said I know a few lawyers in their 20s and all seem to be doing well.

What dentistry does have good income potential and all, I think it would be late for OP to make such a career move. OP would probably have to take 2 years of pre-reqs before dental school. Then dental school is 4 years of intense schooling and quite possibly a decent amount of debt.

I think the issue with biglaw going down the tubes is practice area specific. I work at one of the national L&E firms. Most of the partners in my office defected from biglaw firms. The reason they did so was the billing rates -- clients don't want to pay $650 an hour for someone to handle unfair labor practice charges or discrimination lawsuits, and the firms uniformly refused to allow these partners to lower their rates. I think L&E practices at biglaw firms are going to go the way of the dinosaur before too long. It really makes no sense to pay M&A rates for someone to defend an FLSA or Title VII lawsuit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I do not think equity partners at Miles are billing 1400. In my department, it was more like 2000+. Could vary by department, though. There seems to be this "midlaw" myth where partners coast along making a few hundred grand and work 9-5. I would like to see this if it exists.

The bigger myth on these boards at the moment seems to be "Since there are reasons to think biglaw is facing serious challenges, it is safer to be at midlaw." Its like some posters read Abovethelaw and their takeaway was that justifying your rates is something only large law firms have to do.

I haven't read ATL in literally years, but I know when I left BigLaw, my rate went from $550 to $400 and my clients came with me, and my salary went up while my hours went down.

At my regional firm, partners bill about 1,500 hours and make about $400K. Not a bad life.

At smaller firms (truly boutiques) where my friends ended up, they bill maybe 1,200 hours and make about $300K. Perhaps an even better life.

everything I have read here from fellow lawyers is on point

I wouldn't advise it in these times. I would not want to be coming out of law school these days.

I went to a top 20 school 13 years ago and went in-house immediately after school as I knew I did not want to work at a firm and I don't think I was competitive in their hiring process anyway. I think I only got interviews so they can say they interviewed a diverse candidate.
I started in-house at a small open-minded company at $45k and got instant hands on training in high level work under a General Counsel. Years later and a few companies later...I am now at $270k-$300k (depending on how bonuses play out) at a a top Fortune X corporation. Large corporations are training more in-house staff and building expertise in their own staff. I negotiate with quite a few attorneys who are all working from home which is also a change to the practice over the years. There are different paths other than big law but large corporations are equally snooty about where you went to law school. I know mine is. We do have one bottom tier law grad but they went to an Ivy for undergrad. My internal clients have also frequently looked up my background and bring up where I went to school. With all my years of experience it is still part of the conversation...I don't know if that is because I am diverse and I need that 'extra' credential behind me for people have confidence in my ability or if it is just the way it is. In-house I used to also enjoy a less intense work schedule....but with pressures to cut budgets, bring more work in-house and do more with less all the attorneys at my company are overwhelmed with work that you could spend every weekend and evening doing if you didn't stand firm to keeping time for yourself and your family.

Anonymous wrote:
I do not think equity partners at Miles are billing 1400. In my department, it was more like 2000+. Could vary by department, though. There seems to be this "midlaw" myth where partners coast along making a few hundred grand and work 9-5. I would like to see this if it exists.

The bigger myth on these boards at the moment seems to be "Since there are reasons to think biglaw is facing serious challenges, it is safer to be at midlaw." Its like some posters read Abovethelaw and their takeaway was that justifying your rates is something only large law firms have to do.

No! Don't do it!

That is all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the fact that many here have never heard of those very good firms just shows the BigLaw blinders they have on. You can have a great career, very rewarding, making a lot of money without killing yourself, working at local regional firms. I'd much rather (and by "much", I mean MUCH MUCH MUCH) be an equity partner at a regional firm, making $400K and billing 1,400 hours a year for good local clients, then be killing myself as a senior counsel in BigLaw billing 2,200 hours with zero job security. There are jobs other than BigLaw. You just need to be business generator and a self-starter.

I was an associate at Miles for a while. 1400 is a little bit off -- the target is more like 1900. I tend to agree that a firm like Miles is a better place to be than a biglaw sweatshop (this is based entirely on what I hear from people. For all I know, Skadden is a delightful place to work and the work/life balance is just peachy.)

not the associates at Miles, that sucks. talking about the owners.

all things considered in private practice, best to be: (i) BigLaw Equity (yeah the stress is a killer, but oh the money!) >>>> (ii) SmallLaw Equity (doing sophisticated stuff at least) >>>>>>> (iii) BigLaw Non-Equity >>>>>>>>>>>

I do not think equity partners at Miles are billing 1400. In my department, it was more like 2000+. Could vary by department, though. There seems to be this "midlaw" myth where partners coast along making a few hundred grand and work 9-5. I would like to see this if it exists.

PP here. Also, $400k for an equity partner at a large regional firm sounds somewhat right -- i think the comp there ranged from 400 - 600 (over a million for a handful of serious rainmakers).

I started out working for a sole practitioner, and in a good year I think he took home well north of 600. Of course, he had a couple of clients switch attorneys and he was out of business after 40 years in practice just like that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the fact that many here have never heard of those very good firms just shows the BigLaw blinders they have on. You can have a great career, very rewarding, making a lot of money without killing yourself, working at local regional firms. I'd much rather (and by "much", I mean MUCH MUCH MUCH) be an equity partner at a regional firm, making $400K and billing 1,400 hours a year for good local clients, then be killing myself as a senior counsel in BigLaw billing 2,200 hours with zero job security. There are jobs other than BigLaw. You just need to be business generator and a self-starter.

I was an associate at Miles for a while. 1400 is a little bit off -- the target is more like 1900. I tend to agree that a firm like Miles is a better place to be than a biglaw sweatshop (this is based entirely on what I hear from people. For all I know, Skadden is a delightful place to work and the work/life balance is just peachy.)

not the associates at Miles, that sucks. talking about the owners.

all things considered in private practice, best to be: (i) BigLaw Equity (yeah the stress is a killer, but oh the money!) >>>> (ii) SmallLaw Equity (doing sophisticated stuff at least) >>>>>>> (iii) BigLaw Non-Equity >>>>>>>>>>>

Anonymous wrote:the fact that many here have never heard of those very good firms just shows the BigLaw blinders they have on. You can have a great career, very rewarding, making a lot of money without killing yourself, working at local regional firms. I'd much rather (and by "much", I mean MUCH MUCH MUCH) be an equity partner at a regional firm, making $400K and billing 1,400 hours a year for good local clients, then be killing myself as a senior counsel in BigLaw billing 2,200 hours with zero job security. There are jobs other than BigLaw. You just need to be business generator and a self-starter.

I was an associate at Miles for a while. 1400 is a little bit off -- the target is more like 1900. I tend to agree that a firm like Miles is a better place to be than a biglaw sweatshop (this is based entirely on what I hear from people. For all I know, Skadden is a delightful place to work and the work/life balance is just peachy.)

dentistry will be obsolete in a few years. medical improvements are making cavities a thing of the past.

Personally I would go to med school or become a physician assistant. Or like someone else said maybe even a dentist. I feel like there will be more growth in that area.

That said I know a few lawyers in their 20s and all seem to be doing well.