Just to be clear... the bullies are the ones with older siblings. They have years of training.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason parents do this is simple: many, many 5yos, especially boys, are not physically ready to sit quietly for a full-day class working on fine-motor tasks like writing with only one short recess period per day. That is not an age-appropriate expectation, but it is what we expect of kindergarteners now. I have the money to send my wiggly 5-year-old who struggles with handwriting into a private school with lots of outdoor time and small class sizes that allow him to learn at his own speed. But if I had to go public or redshirt, you can bet I'd be redshirting in a heartbeat.

That is what they are supposed to learn in preschool. Instead everything is play based and they are not gaining the skills to sit down, work, follow directions. My 3 year old who is very active with delays can sit, no recess for hours to get work done. Look at your parenting and the school. We changed preschools form 2-3. The two had no expectations but to play. He is now in a very structured program, with some play, and is thriving. I think its a general assumption like you are making and it does not apply to all kids. If we have to hold back our child due to birthday, it will be a disaster as there are few affordable that are a true prek that will give him the academic and other skills he needs. You supplement with physical activities after school, but I want school to be a learning process with academics. He can get plenty of park and activity time after school and on the weekends.

Try an OT for the handwriting.

No way. This is not what they are supposed to learn in preschool. Read up on child development. We changed preschools too -- I took my kid out of an "academic" one where they pushed the writing and worksheets and put him into a preschool with 2 hours of outdoor playtime, lots of singing and role playing, lots of games, and a little bit of learning numbers and letters. BTW, we had an OT and a developmental pediatrician tell us that 3 year olds in general should not be learning how to write b/c it is not developmentally appropriate for them and probably one of the reasons our older son has writing issues is that he started trying to write at a young age.

My younger son turned 5 at the very end of August (his due date was in early September) and I declined to send him into a 1st grade environment, which is what kindergarten has become. His past year of preschool was exactly what my kindergarten was like when I was his age (including an afternoon nap) and that is what he needed, especially as a shy, hesitant child. He was not ready to sit down and be frustrated at not getting the academics the schools nowadays are pushing on kindergarteners.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:in fact, the older bigger kids tend to be bullies.

Really, this is just not true. The worst bully in my child's elementary school was the tiny, cute girl who was manipulative and just plain mean to the other children. At first, no one realized that she was the problem because she was so darn cute, but the teachers quickly caught on and knew to keep an eye on her. We moved away, so I don't know if she has grown out of it yet, but the experience surely taught me that you can't assume you know who the bully is by the size of the child.

Truth!

Anonymous wrote:in fact, the older bigger kids tend to be bullies.

Really, this is just not true. The worst bully in my child's elementary school was the tiny, cute girl who was manipulative and just plain mean to the other children. At first, no one realized that she was the problem because she was so darn cute, but the teachers quickly caught on and knew to keep an eye on her. We moved away, so I don't know if she has grown out of it yet, but the experience surely taught me that you can't assume you know who the bully is by the size of the child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:haven't read all of this thread, but wanted to give my opinion. Have a child with an august birthday, and waiting until age 6 to start kindergarten- this has nothing to do with sports, and nothing to do with any other child, and goes far beyond being ready for kindergarten- i couldn't care less how my child does compared to others- what i do care about is what is expected of kids today academically. Its not appropriate, its too much too fast, and not meeting the kids developmentally where they are. Since the states are pushing for things to be taught earlier, and often too early, kids are being turned off to learning and school. If the state is insisting on certain standards, then i will opt to send my child when he/she should attend based on the curriculum objectives and not on the age. So K objectives are more appropriate for 6 yr olds, that is why i am waiting. This has nothing to do with anyone else's child and i am amazed how many people are upset with my decision, and how it impacts them.

Everyone has to do what they believe is right for their child. But I think your underlying premise is wrong. Kids do absolutely fine with the early educational push and they love learning. The schools and curriculums are so amazing. Teachers are trained to be flexible with all sorts of learning styles. I can't imagine where you get the idea that kids aren't ready and are being turned off to education.

OP here. I have the idea that kids aren't ready and being turned off from being a public school teacher for 12 yrs in Virginia public schools. I am not trying to convince anyone of the state of education, until you have read research and lived through it with various students in elementary and middle schools, it's tough to understand how schools are under pressure to make kids perform on the assessments and more things are being "covered" and not taught in meaningful and thoughtful ways to kids. Teachers have too much to teach and cover in a year, and part of the reason it's too much is because it's developmentally too advanced for kids. Kids can memorize and spit it back out, but the true understanding is not there. Talk to ms and hs math teachers, kids coming up now havent internalized and don't fully understand some basic math concepts making higher level math much more challenging. Basic understanding missing, it's not good for kids. There are countless books and articles about how schools are losing kids. I'm am not trying to say that everyone should wait, I'm simply saying we are chosing to start k one yr later for our child, each parent has to make their own decision and feel good about it! That is critical and I have no opinion on what other families decide. I just know what will work for our family.

I taught K and first grade many years ago. It was rare to have redshirters then--but I can tell you for a fact that the age had nothing to do with the bullies. It was the home environment. Period.

Anonymous wrote:I agree- I meet moms whose son excels at a sport say soccer and I'll say- wow, that's impressive for a Kindergartener and the mom will reply- oh, thanks (and a version of modesty add - but he's really more like a 1st grader since he's almost 7. Looking at a K, 1 , 2 class etc. is strange- there are some huge kids and short kids. For what I have observed, the really older kids in the class that were redshirted have the worst behavior (so there goes that theory that one year helped prepared them more)- in fact, the older bigger kids tend to be bullies.

Are you a teacher? How many classes have you observed? The most disruptive child in DD's class last year was the youngest, and he definitely could have used another year. Are the kids with October birthdays usually the bullies?

Anonymous wrote:My county had a cutoff of 12/31 when my kids were younger, and with summer birthdays, they all started "on time" (age 5). I'm not a fan of redshirting unless a child genuinely needs extra time. My son graduated HS at 17 and is an academic superstar. I can't imagine having held him back.

He's not the kid that a parent would hold back. I love how people who've never had a child who really wasn't ready have so many opinions on why it's so terrible and ridiculous to red shirt. Thanks for the info on you academic superstar, that really helps the conversation

I don't see a huge change in curriculum from when I was growing up. Several children could read in K just like they can now. Maybe they weren't taking 5 AP classes at a time or playing varsity freshman year, but other than that, it appears about the same. The only acceleration I see is in AAP. Other than that, it may even be less challenging than before.

Anonymous wrote:haven't read all of this thread, but wanted to give my opinion. Have a child with an august birthday, and waiting until age 6 to start kindergarten- this has nothing to do with sports, and nothing to do with any other child, and goes far beyond being ready for kindergarten- i couldn't care less how my child does compared to others- what i do care about is what is expected of kids today academically. Its not appropriate, its too much too fast, and not meeting the kids developmentally where they are. Since the states are pushing for things to be taught earlier, and often too early, kids are being turned off to learning and school. If the state is insisting on certain standards, then i will opt to send my child when he/she should attend based on the curriculum objectives and not on the age. So K objectives are more appropriate for 6 yr olds, that is why i am waiting. This has nothing to do with anyone else's child and i am amazed how many people are upset with my decision, and how it impacts them.

+1 Interesting perspective, and actually one of the few compelling reasons to hold children back. Refreshing, too, since so many posters on DCUM seem to think pushing kids two or three years ahead academically is the goal.

I agree- I meet moms whose son excels at a sport say soccer and I'll say- wow, that's impressive for a Kindergartener and the mom will reply- oh, thanks (and a version of modesty add - but he's really more like a 1st grader since he's almost 7. Looking at a K, 1 , 2 class etc. is strange- there are some huge kids and short kids. For what I have observed, the really older kids in the class that were redshirted have the worst behavior (so there goes that theory that one year helped prepared them more)- in fact, the older bigger kids tend to be bullies.

My county had a cutoff of 12/31 when my kids were younger, and with summer birthdays, they all started "on time" (age 5). I'm not a fan of redshirting unless a child genuinely needs extra time. My son graduated HS at 17 and is an academic superstar. I can't imagine having held him back.

Anonymous wrote:16:01 All I know is the Vienna and Oakton schools from what I've heard all have 2 recesses and a 1/2 hour of free play with a play area. Also Fairfax County has more "specials" during the day than Montgomery County does and actually has a shorter day and shorter year.

You're making a lot of assumptions. All FCPS schools are not alike.

What I think is ridiculous is that people have no problem "redshirting" kids, but then if someone wants to start their child early we are criticized. My daughter misses the cut-off by 11 days. I could have actually had a c-section to have her born before the cut-off but I chose not to. We are starting her early at a private kindergarten. From there we will either continue to send her to a private school or put her in public in first grade. Both my husband and I graduated college at 21 and both of us have fall birthdays. We would rather our daughter be the youngest than be the oldest. She is mature enough for Kindergarten as well - she knows her numbers and letters, can do two digit addition, etc. If we put her in another year of Pre-K she would be bored. She is really looking forward to learning Spanish, having computer class, etc.

Anonymous wrote:21:05 In the past the cutoff was Dec. 31st. at most schools.

In some states. But even then it's still 1/3rd of the class at most. Not "most" of the class.

Not to mention that K today was 1st back then...