Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:41
Subject: How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
So where do you live? Sorry that I haven't had time to read all through this lively thread so apologies if you've mentioned it before. I love DC but my guess is that I'd probably love where you live, too. A lot of us end up here because a job brought us here but a job could just have easily brought me somewhere else and I tend to find nice things to enjoy about any place I live.Anonymous wrote:Because I *don't* live here, I don't have the data you have. I am trying to understand what makes it worthwhile.
So, I'm asking people who *do* live here and love it what makes it worthwhile for them. In response, people keep describing what I already have, and in some cases, less than what I already have, as though it's a mindblowing urban wonderland.
So I'm pointing that out so that they will stop assuming that everything in flyover country is McMansions and Applebee's, and describe more specifically what they find attractive about DC. I don't have trouble understanding why Paris is worth living rough. I do have trouble understanding what's special about DC. And I've spent a lot of time here trying to figure out what people see in it, and coming up short.
I am hoping to see some genuine distinction that will clue me in.
Is this a difficult concept?
It's not like most of us developed a spread sheet and reviewed the pluses and minuses and had the opportunity to experience living here first before making a decision. Some of us grew up here. Some of us came here. Life here agreed with us and we stayed.
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:39
Subject: Re:How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Anonymous wrote:Another out of town lurker here with a prospect to relocate. Many of you seemed to earn a bundle in the 90s before the housing boom. I was still in high school then. How do people in their early 30s and younger manage in DC?
I am 39 but I did not make a bundle in the 90s. HA! That makes me laugh! I was an impoverished Hill staffer living in shared housing. I think my starting salary was $22K. Yep, it was. That was '97, with a Master's degree, for which I then had to pay student loans!
And then we bought at the top of the market in '04, right after we got married, so yeah, no luck there either.
Just guerilla-style frugality and Irish stubbornness.
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:38
Subject: Re:How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Different poster here. I don't see why this has to be a pissing match, pp. This is obviously not the place for you and I don't think there is anything those of us who like it here can tell you that will change your mind. Give up!Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, are you interested in living in the city itself or a suburb?
Like several of the other posters, I grew up here (in a NoVA suburb), so the crazy COL always seemed normal to me. I moved into DC after college and lived the dirt poor nonprofit worker lifestyle. I love living in the city, and my now-DH and I decided early on that it was worth the trade offs. He makes about $125K. I was only making about $45K (again, nonprofit), and I became a SAHM after we had a child. You really have to know what sort of trade offs you are willing to make? We live in a 2 bedroom, 1,000 SF condo. We don't have a yard, but on the other hand there are tons of kids and parks around us, and with less than a 5 minute walk to the metro (and we only have 1 car), we pretty much consider the whole city to be our backyard. Even without the metro we can walk to the zoo, library, grocery shopping, 5 or 6 playgrounds and parks, and about 200 restaurants. Our condo is not fancy and our local school is average, but we love our fun, walkable neighborhood, and DS spends his days having fun at museums, parks, the zoo, etc. By DC standards we don't make a lot of money, but we love our lifestyle.
What is comes down to, OP, is what sort of lifestyle do you and your family want? What are your non-negotiables? What are you willing to sacrifice?
Btw, don't listen to the snarkers who hate living here. No place is perfect of course, but DC is a great place to live if you are looking for that lifestyle.
Sounds nice, but still waiting for you to name something we don't have, and for a quarter of the price. The salary bump is not close to the differential. I would understand if our HHI were going to quadruple, or even double, but it won't, so I am genuinely trying to understand what makes this worthwhile. Some of you must be in jobs that simply don't exist, or not in adequate numbers, elsewhere - but if you're not a wonk or a lobbyist, why?
I agree. DC is more than just houses, buildings and traffic. It's hard for me to put it into words. It's like someone asking me "what's the big deal with the library of congress. it's just a library, right?" or "why visit the supreme court? you've seen one courthouse, you've seen them all." Unless you come here and find out what all the fuss is about, you're never going to understand.
Exactly. I've lived her for almost 15 years and I still love wandering downtown to the White House, or Capitol Hill. That is part of what makes it worth it to me. But yes, if you are the kind of person who thinks the Library of Congress is just a big dumb library then you should probably stay put.
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:36
Subject: Re:How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Different poster here. I don't see why this has to be a pissing match, pp. This is obviously not the place for you and I don't think there is anything those of us who like it here can tell you that will change your mind. Give up!Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, are you interested in living in the city itself or a suburb?
Like several of the other posters, I grew up here (in a NoVA suburb), so the crazy COL always seemed normal to me. I moved into DC after college and lived the dirt poor nonprofit worker lifestyle. I love living in the city, and my now-DH and I decided early on that it was worth the trade offs. He makes about $125K. I was only making about $45K (again, nonprofit), and I became a SAHM after we had a child. You really have to know what sort of trade offs you are willing to make? We live in a 2 bedroom, 1,000 SF condo. We don't have a yard, but on the other hand there are tons of kids and parks around us, and with less than a 5 minute walk to the metro (and we only have 1 car), we pretty much consider the whole city to be our backyard. Even without the metro we can walk to the zoo, library, grocery shopping, 5 or 6 playgrounds and parks, and about 200 restaurants. Our condo is not fancy and our local school is average, but we love our fun, walkable neighborhood, and DS spends his days having fun at museums, parks, the zoo, etc. By DC standards we don't make a lot of money, but we love our lifestyle.
What is comes down to, OP, is what sort of lifestyle do you and your family want? What are your non-negotiables? What are you willing to sacrifice?
Btw, don't listen to the snarkers who hate living here. No place is perfect of course, but DC is a great place to live if you are looking for that lifestyle.
Sounds nice, but still waiting for you to name something we don't have, and for a quarter of the price. The salary bump is not close to the differential. I would understand if our HHI were going to quadruple, or even double, but it won't, so I am genuinely trying to understand what makes this worthwhile. Some of you must be in jobs that simply don't exist, or not in adequate numbers, elsewhere - but if you're not a wonk or a lobbyist, why?
I agree. DC is more than just houses, buildings and traffic. It's hard for me to put it into words. It's like someone asking me "what's the big deal with the library of congress. it's just a library, right?" or "why visit the supreme court? you've seen one courthouse, you've seen them all." Unless you come here and find out what all the fuss is about, you're never going to understand.
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:36
Subject: Re:How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
14:26 again -- To answer your question directly, at this point in my life with two kids, there is nothing special enough about DC to justify the high cost of living and long commute, not to mention the large number of unpleasant people (as you are no doubt experiencing on this board). The museums are nice, but we really don't take advantage of anything else this area has to offer (nice restaurants, Kennedy Center, etc.).
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:33
Subject: Re:How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Anonymous wrote:Different poster here. I don't see why this has to be a pissing match, pp. This is obviously not the place for you and I don't think there is anything those of us who like it here can tell you that will change your mind. Give up!Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, are you interested in living in the city itself or a suburb?
Like several of the other posters, I grew up here (in a NoVA suburb), so the crazy COL always seemed normal to me. I moved into DC after college and lived the dirt poor nonprofit worker lifestyle. I love living in the city, and my now-DH and I decided early on that it was worth the trade offs. He makes about $125K. I was only making about $45K (again, nonprofit), and I became a SAHM after we had a child. You really have to know what sort of trade offs you are willing to make? We live in a 2 bedroom, 1,000 SF condo. We don't have a yard, but on the other hand there are tons of kids and parks around us, and with less than a 5 minute walk to the metro (and we only have 1 car), we pretty much consider the whole city to be our backyard. Even without the metro we can walk to the zoo, library, grocery shopping, 5 or 6 playgrounds and parks, and about 200 restaurants. Our condo is not fancy and our local school is average, but we love our fun, walkable neighborhood, and DS spends his days having fun at museums, parks, the zoo, etc. By DC standards we don't make a lot of money, but we love our lifestyle.
What is comes down to, OP, is what sort of lifestyle do you and your family want? What are your non-negotiables? What are you willing to sacrifice?
Btw, don't listen to the snarkers who hate living here. No place is perfect of course, but DC is a great place to live if you are looking for that lifestyle.
Sounds nice, but still waiting for you to name something we don't have, and for a quarter of the price. The salary bump is not close to the differential. I would understand if our HHI were going to quadruple, or even double, but it won't, so I am genuinely trying to understand what makes this worthwhile. Some of you must be in jobs that simply don't exist, or not in adequate numbers, elsewhere - but if you're not a wonk or a lobbyist, why?
I agree. DC is more than just houses, buildings and traffic. It's hard for me to put it into words. It's like someone asking me "what's the big deal with the library of congress. it's just a library, right?" or "why visit the supreme court? you've seen one courthouse, you've seen them all." Unless you come here and find out what all the fuss is about, you're never going to understand.
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:31
Subject: How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Because I *don't* live here, I don't have the data you have. I am trying to understand what makes it worthwhile.
So, I'm asking people who *do* live here and love it what makes it worthwhile for them. In response, people keep describing what I already have, and in some cases, less than what I already have, as though it's a mindblowing urban wonderland.
So I'm pointing that out so that they will stop assuming that everything in flyover country is McMansions and Applebee's, and describe more specifically what they find attractive about DC. I don't have trouble understanding why Paris is worth living rough. I do have trouble understanding what's special about DC. And I've spent a lot of time here trying to figure out what people see in it, and coming up short.
I am hoping to see some genuine distinction that will clue me in.
Is this a difficult concept?
So, I'm asking people who *do* live here and love it what makes it worthwhile for them. In response, people keep describing what I already have, and in some cases, less than what I already have, as though it's a mindblowing urban wonderland.
So I'm pointing that out so that they will stop assuming that everything in flyover country is McMansions and Applebee's, and describe more specifically what they find attractive about DC. I don't have trouble understanding why Paris is worth living rough. I do have trouble understanding what's special about DC. And I've spent a lot of time here trying to figure out what people see in it, and coming up short.
I am hoping to see some genuine distinction that will clue me in.
Is this a difficult concept?
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:29
Subject: How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You don't mention what your spouse makes? Most families here have two incomes and, almost more importantly, two careers to support. If not, I see no reason why someone at your career level would move here.
Spouse makes about $45,000 but incredible benefits (dirt cheap healthcare) are also part of the package.
Wow. Just wow.
Why the snark? My DH and I make the same types of salaries as OP and his wife. Except, my husband has the lower salary. And we live in a very desirable part of North Arlington. I just blew your socks off, PP, didn't I?
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:27
Subject: How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Many people make well into the six figures. A typical house in Arlington with 3 bedrooms and 2 baths (one of which is in the basement) will be around $700k.
I can assure you that your quality of life is MUCH better in the midwest.
I can assure you that your quality of life is MUCH better in the midwest.
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:26
Subject: Re:How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Dear OP -- Unless there is some compelling reason to be here, I would not take the job. I moved to DC when I was young and idealistic, went to law school, and now am a government lawyer. DH, an ex-lawyer who is a SAHD, grew up here. HHI is $145K, and the only reason we are able to make this work is because we paid off our law school loans and saved A LOT of money when we were both at large law firms. We live in a modest house ($500K) in NoVA, about 16 miles outside DC. My commute ranges from 35 minutes to more than an hour.
We would love to get out of this area. The high housing costs and long commute are getting old, and this area is really intense and competitive. The public schools are good, but your kids are competing against a lot of talented, smart kids from highly educated households. There is no mid-West-nice here. I am from the South, and even after living here for more than a decade, am still shocked at how brusque many people are. But my practice area does not really exist outside DC, so I have resigned myself to being here for the long haul.
We would love to get out of this area. The high housing costs and long commute are getting old, and this area is really intense and competitive. The public schools are good, but your kids are competing against a lot of talented, smart kids from highly educated households. There is no mid-West-nice here. I am from the South, and even after living here for more than a decade, am still shocked at how brusque many people are. But my practice area does not really exist outside DC, so I have resigned myself to being here for the long haul.
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:20
Subject: Re:How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Different poster here. I don't see why this has to be a pissing match, pp. This is obviously not the place for you and I don't think there is anything those of us who like it here can tell you that will change your mind. Give up!Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, are you interested in living in the city itself or a suburb?
Like several of the other posters, I grew up here (in a NoVA suburb), so the crazy COL always seemed normal to me. I moved into DC after college and lived the dirt poor nonprofit worker lifestyle. I love living in the city, and my now-DH and I decided early on that it was worth the trade offs. He makes about $125K. I was only making about $45K (again, nonprofit), and I became a SAHM after we had a child. You really have to know what sort of trade offs you are willing to make? We live in a 2 bedroom, 1,000 SF condo. We don't have a yard, but on the other hand there are tons of kids and parks around us, and with less than a 5 minute walk to the metro (and we only have 1 car), we pretty much consider the whole city to be our backyard. Even without the metro we can walk to the zoo, library, grocery shopping, 5 or 6 playgrounds and parks, and about 200 restaurants. Our condo is not fancy and our local school is average, but we love our fun, walkable neighborhood, and DS spends his days having fun at museums, parks, the zoo, etc. By DC standards we don't make a lot of money, but we love our lifestyle.
What is comes down to, OP, is what sort of lifestyle do you and your family want? What are your non-negotiables? What are you willing to sacrifice?
Btw, don't listen to the snarkers who hate living here. No place is perfect of course, but DC is a great place to live if you are looking for that lifestyle.
Sounds nice, but still waiting for you to name something we don't have, and for a quarter of the price. The salary bump is not close to the differential. I would understand if our HHI were going to quadruple, or even double, but it won't, so I am genuinely trying to understand what makes this worthwhile. Some of you must be in jobs that simply don't exist, or not in adequate numbers, elsewhere - but if you're not a wonk or a lobbyist, why?
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:19
Subject: How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Has anyone done a national job search lately? What were your offers, in what field, and how did they relate to COL?
I ask because a friend in Ohio just did. She's well known in her field, earned $175K in her last job and expected there to be a bigger difference between coastal and inland offers, but the spread was less than $30K. She turned down the DC offer because the COL/QOL was just not there.
I ask because a friend in Ohio just did. She's well known in her field, earned $175K in her last job and expected there to be a bigger difference between coastal and inland offers, but the spread was less than $30K. She turned down the DC offer because the COL/QOL was just not there.
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:19
Subject: How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're doing OK. We make about 150K, own a house, drive two very old cars, and live very simply. We're saving at least 25 percent of household income. One kid, no cable TV...
Yeah, but you're DINK's. Try having a kid or two - this place starts to wear on you a bit after that. It did for me, anyway.
Huh?
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:18
Subject: How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Anonymous wrote:We're doing OK. We make about 150K, own a house, drive two very old cars, and live very simply. We're saving at least 25 percent of household income. One kid, no cable TV...
Yeah, but you're DINK's. Try having a kid or two - this place starts to wear on you a bit after that. It did for me, anyway.
Anonymous
10/12/2012 14:16
Subject: How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What's the point of your post? Apparently, millions of us are finding a way to make it work. When you come to visit, remember to stand on the left when you go on the metro.
No! Stand on the right; walk on the left.
+1 It's stand on the right, walk on the left. Duh, PP. You must not actually live in DC. Don't give the freaking tourists any more bad advice.
Also, for the tourists, remember when you come to visit not to step 2 feet in front of the escalator after you've gotten off and then open your damned map. There are like 200 people behind you trying to get off the escalator and yes, we will push you out of the way. It's either that or be trampled.