Anonymous
Post 08/22/2012 21:16     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
Anonymous wrote:I agree - ridiculous to say nothing prepares one for these abilities tests.


And the Committee sees right through the test-prepped cases, and thankfully the test scores (for the NNAT2, the CogAT and now the Fairfax Abilities Test) are not the sole determinant of AAP Center eligibility.
Anonymous
Post 08/22/2012 21:02     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to CCNY (City College of NY) used to be called "poor man's Harvard". Like TJ had to take a test to get in. Free school. Everyone who scored high enough got in but the test was a bear! Then some said the test was unfair to some minorities. Now the school is CUNY and Hunter College is part of the system. I don't see how dumbing down the test is the answer. It will mean the end of TJ.


I'm sorry but I'm from NYC and I have never heard of CCNY referred to poor man's Harvard.
I did attend Harvard and no one cares where you went to high school. Admissions tries to get a diverse student body. I had plenty of black and Hispanic classmates but many were international students or students who attending boarding school. There are plenty of intelligent students of color in this world.



a. Harvard "tries to get a diverse student body" but since it is private it can shape the class as it wishes.
b. public schools on the other hand don't have that same latitude.
c MIT cares where you went to HS. They take more from TJ than any other high school.

As to that last sentence, it's true I'm sure, but isn't really here nor there with respect to this discussion.


PP here. I'm too tired to defend with a lengthy response but I do think it is totally relevant to the discussion. My point was that there are intelligent students of color in this world. They just may not be concentrated in Fairfax County. Some of my strongest classmates were black. The president is black. Just because you are black you should not get preferential treatment in admissions into AAP/TJ because your race is underrepresented.

I once wrote a paper for my sociology class on the correlation between academic success of a child and the mother's academic achievement. Instead of dividing up the county by race, if there was a study done on AAP students and educational level of parents, I don't think the results would shocking. Learning starts from the home. We have plenty of black and Hispanic friends and colleagues who are lawyers and doctors. Their children are exceptionally bright. I don't think the complaint should be against Fairfax County.

I do buy a lot of books for my children. I don't necessarily think that I am prepping my children for a test but we have done preschool workbooks that teach my son tracing, counting, analogies, etc. I'm sure that these books would probably benefit him one day when he takes these standardized tests. Do we do workbooks for test prep? No. We do it as part of learning basic fundamentals of reading, writing, mathematics and logic.
Anonymous
Post 08/22/2012 20:16     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
I agree - ridiculous to say nothing prepares one for these abilities tests.
Anonymous
Post 08/22/2012 19:56     Subject: Re:NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
[quote]NNAT and CogAT tests are ability tests and are not affected by enrichment or private pre-school attendance. In addition, these test scores are not the sole criteria for AAP Center eligibility.

I do concur with the other PP that each school implements AAP - including but not limited to Young Scholars, Local Level IV, and Level II and III services - differently due to site-based management. It seems that the School Board could step in to insist that FCPS mandate consistency in the delivery of these programs so that there is less geographic disparity across the County.



More junk science from a teabag wing nut. There is no such thing as an ability test that children cannot "train" for (high SES access to better schools and teachers teaching the appropriate subject materials, tutors, test-prep, enrichment, etc) Scores on all existing alphabet soup ability tests can be increased through preperation and training.

And please do not try to convince the intelligent that one cannot get pregnant if raped.
Anonymous
Post 08/22/2012 18:30     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to CCNY (City College of NY) used to be called "poor man's Harvard". Like TJ had to take a test to get in. Free school. Everyone who scored high enough got in but the test was a bear! Then some said the test was unfair to some minorities. Now the school is CUNY and Hunter College is part of the system. I don't see how dumbing down the test is the answer. It will mean the end of TJ.


I'm sorry but I'm from NYC and I have never heard of CCNY referred to poor man's Harvard.
I did attend Harvard and no one cares where you went to high school. Admissions tries to get a diverse student body. I had plenty of black and Hispanic classmates but many were international students or students who attending boarding school. There are plenty of intelligent students of color in this world.



a. Harvard "tries to get a diverse student body" but since it is private it can shape the class as it wishes.
b. public schools on the other hand don't have that same latitude.
c MIT cares where you went to HS. They take more from TJ than any other high school.

As to that last sentence, it's true I'm sure, but isn't really here nor there with respect to this discussion.


oh, but it is here AND there with respect to this discussion. If Hispanic and Black populations are significantly underrepresented in AAP and/or TJ, what reasons would you point to as to why? Are Hispanics and Blacks inherently not as smart as their white or Asian counterparts? Or is the playing field uneven? and why? It is simplistic to say only the smartest and hardest working get in - and that is why these minority groups don't get in. If there are highly intellegent people of color all over the world - what is going on with the people of color in FCPS?



haha, typo in "intelligent" - i know how spell, really I do.
Anonymous
Post 08/22/2012 18:23     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to CCNY (City College of NY) used to be called "poor man's Harvard". Like TJ had to take a test to get in. Free school. Everyone who scored high enough got in but the test was a bear! Then some said the test was unfair to some minorities. Now the school is CUNY and Hunter College is part of the system. I don't see how dumbing down the test is the answer. It will mean the end of TJ.


I'm sorry but I'm from NYC and I have never heard of CCNY referred to poor man's Harvard.
I did attend Harvard and no one cares where you went to high school. Admissions tries to get a diverse student body. I had plenty of black and Hispanic classmates but many were international students or students who attending boarding school. There are plenty of intelligent students of color in this world.



a. Harvard "tries to get a diverse student body" but since it is private it can shape the class as it wishes.
b. public schools on the other hand don't have that same latitude.
c MIT cares where you went to HS. They take more from TJ than any other high school.

As to that last sentence, it's true I'm sure, but isn't really here nor there with respect to this discussion.


oh, but it is here AND there with respect to this discussion. If Hispanic and Black populations are significantly underrepresented in AAP and/or TJ, what reasons would you point to as to why? Are Hispanics and Blacks inherently not as smart as their white or Asian counterparts? Or is the playing field uneven? and why? It is simplistic to say only the smartest and hardest working get in - and that is why these minority groups don't get in. If there are highly intellegent people of color all over the world - what is going on with the people of color in FCPS?

Anonymous
Post 08/21/2012 11:00     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to CCNY (City College of NY) used to be called "poor man's Harvard". Like TJ had to take a test to get in. Free school. Everyone who scored high enough got in but the test was a bear! Then some said the test was unfair to some minorities. Now the school is CUNY and Hunter College is part of the system. I don't see how dumbing down the test is the answer. It will mean the end of TJ.


I'm sorry but I'm from NYC and I have never heard of CCNY referred to poor man's Harvard.
I did attend Harvard and no one cares where you went to high school. Admissions tries to get a diverse student body. I had plenty of black and Hispanic classmates but many were international students or students who attending boarding school. There are plenty of intelligent students of color in this world.



a. Harvard "tries to get a diverse student body" but since it is private it can shape the class as it wishes.
b. public schools on the other hand don't have that same latitude.
c MIT cares where you went to HS. They take more from TJ than any other high school.

As to that last sentence, it's true I'm sure, but isn't really here nor there with respect to this discussion.
Anonymous
Post 08/21/2012 09:28     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to CCNY (City College of NY) used to be called "poor man's Harvard". Like TJ had to take a test to get in. Free school. Everyone who scored high enough got in but the test was a bear! Then some said the test was unfair to some minorities. Now the school is CUNY and Hunter College is part of the system. I don't see how dumbing down the test is the answer. It will mean the end of TJ.


I'm sorry but I'm from NYC and I have never heard of CCNY referred to poor man's Harvard.
I did attend Harvard and no one cares where you went to high school. Admissions tries to get a diverse student body. I had plenty of black and Hispanic classmates but many were international students or students who attending boarding school. There are plenty of intelligent students of color in this world.


Google it and you'll find dozens of references. And, both the Harvard admissions office and other students care where students attended HS.

But, CCNY is a college and TJ is a high school. Different levels. One could just as fatuously start invoking the impact of open admissions in CUNY if the issue were expanding the availability of Level IV services to third graders.

Anonymous
Post 08/21/2012 08:57     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to CCNY (City College of NY) used to be called "poor man's Harvard". Like TJ had to take a test to get in. Free school. Everyone who scored high enough got in but the test was a bear! Then some said the test was unfair to some minorities. Now the school is CUNY and Hunter College is part of the system. I don't see how dumbing down the test is the answer. It will mean the end of TJ.


I'm sorry but I'm from NYC and I have never heard of CCNY referred to poor man's Harvard.
I did attend Harvard and no one cares where you went to high school. Admissions tries to get a diverse student body. I had plenty of black and Hispanic classmates but many were international students or students who attending boarding school. There are plenty of intelligent students of color in this world.
Anonymous
Post 08/21/2012 08:40     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to CCNY (City College of NY) used to be called "poor man's Harvard". Like TJ had to take a test to get in. Free school. Everyone who scored high enough got in but the test was a bear! Then some said the test was unfair to some minorities. Now the school is CUNY and Hunter College is part of the system. I don't see how dumbing down the test is the answer. It will mean the end of TJ.


Thanks for the memories, but CCNY has no relevance to TJ. Hope you're having good weather in Miami Beach, though.
Anonymous
Post 08/21/2012 07:27     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
Look at what happened to CCNY (City College of NY) used to be called "poor man's Harvard". Like TJ had to take a test to get in. Free school. Everyone who scored high enough got in but the test was a bear! Then some said the test was unfair to some minorities. Now the school is CUNY and Hunter College is part of the system. I don't see how dumbing down the test is the answer. It will mean the end of TJ.
Anonymous
Post 08/21/2012 07:09     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
NNAT and CogAT tests are ability tests and are not affected by enrichment or private pre-school attendance. In addition, these test scores are not the sole criteria for AAP Center eligibility.

I do concur with the other PP that each school implements AAP - including but not limited to Young Scholars, Local Level IV, and Level II and III services - differently due to site-based management. It seems that the School Board could step in to insist that FCPS mandate consistency in the delivery of these programs so that there is less geographic disparity across the County.
Anonymous
Post 08/20/2012 19:08     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
Anonymous wrote:"Sixty-four percent of students admitted to TJHSST attend middle schools with Level 4 Advanced Academic Middle School Centers. Most of the centers have limited diversity, carrying minority populations that don't reflect the county's demographic makeup, the complaint says."

I don't think the complaint is stating that underqualified students should be admitted to TJ, but rather that something is unbalanced in the earlier years of identifying/prepping for Level 4 AAP. Hispanic and African American kids don't lack smarts - there are socio-enonimic factors at play here. One step that was taken to address this is introducing the NNAT (nonverbal, so no language issue) in first grade, but this was just implemented a couple of years ago. N.VA is such a competive area and there are so many resources available to kids whose parents can afford it - enrichment programs, private preschool, tutoring, even test prep courses. For families whose parents area working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet, these are luxuries out of reach. I am a strong believer in investment in the very young - that is where is matters. Its the early years where kids are either fast tracked or fall behind.


I believe this is also the purpose of the Young Scholars Program, but at least at our school, it exists i name only for K-2 and after that means a couple of pull out sessions a semester. Great in theory, but seems lacking in practice.
Anonymous
Post 08/20/2012 18:59     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
argh, typos! *competitive* "are" not "area". sorry if i missed any more.
Anonymous
Post 08/20/2012 18:57     Subject: NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS
"Sixty-four percent of students admitted to TJHSST attend middle schools with Level 4 Advanced Academic Middle School Centers. Most of the centers have limited diversity, carrying minority populations that don't reflect the county's demographic makeup, the complaint says."

I don't think the complaint is stating that underqualified students should be admitted to TJ, but rather that something is unbalanced in the earlier years of identifying/prepping for Level 4 AAP. Hispanic and African American kids don't lack smarts - there are socio-enonimic factors at play here. One step that was taken to address this is introducing the NNAT (nonverbal, so no language issue) in first grade, but this was just implemented a couple of years ago. N.VA is such a competive area and there are so many resources available to kids whose parents can afford it - enrichment programs, private preschool, tutoring, even test prep courses. For families whose parents area working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet, these are luxuries out of reach. I am a strong believer in investment in the very young - that is where is matters. Its the early years where kids are either fast tracked or fall behind.