Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depending on the size of the classroom 50 kids is totally do able especially since the idea of whole group direct teaching is going by the wayside- Yes it would take sometime to teach the children how to work / or rotate through the groups/workstations but if it is as said experienced teachers in the classroom then it should be no problem other than the noise created by active engagement.
If there are also two student teachers and an aide then each person could have a small group to teach directly and work with for one area say One person does word study another does guided reading group or two could do guided reading groups and so on with so many people and resources in the room the needs of the children certainly could be met and with the use of the small groups the academics could be differentiated as well.

Yes, this is beautiful. But not one instance of differentiation has been offered by any parents defending this, the principal, or the teachers, as reported on what they said at back to school night. This could work in a classroom of 18 kids or a classroom of 50 kids - you're describing classic small groups and differentiated curriculum - and it's progressive educational practice. It's just not what's described as happening.

PP parent here. If you are a parent with a kid in the class, please refer to the memo the teachers sent out on the second day of class that talks about their approach to differentiation. The even use this term in para 2, fyi. For the rest of you, you just don't know these teachers. Excellent teachers make the difference. I prefer this hands down to a mediocre school with a "good" teacher presiding over a class of 20. But, I don't have an ADHD kid.

Anonymous wrote:Depending on the size of the classroom 50 kids is totally do able especially since the idea of whole group direct teaching is going by the wayside- Yes it would take sometime to teach the children how to work / or rotate through the groups/workstations but if it is as said experienced teachers in the classroom then it should be no problem other than the noise created by active engagement.
If there are also two student teachers and an aide then each person could have a small group to teach directly and work with for one area say One person does word study another does guided reading group or two could do guided reading groups and so on with so many people and resources in the room the needs of the children certainly could be met and with the use of the small groups the academics could be differentiated as well.

Yes, this is beautiful. But not one instance of differentiation has been offered by any parents defending this, the principal, or the teachers, as reported on what they said at back to school night. This could work in a classroom of 18 kids or a classroom of 50 kids - you're describing classic small groups and differentiated curriculum - and it's progressive educational practice. It's just not what's described as happening.

I was in a class just like this in fifth grade! It was too classes of nearly 30 students. The two classrooms were next to each other and instead of a dividing wall had a kind of temporary wall, so the teachers opened up the wall and one teacher taught us all math, and the other teacher taught us all English, etc. It clearly made their jobs easier -- the off teacher got to have prep time or personal time. One class sat at their desks and the other class sat on the floor at their feet.

It was the most miserable school year of my life, and I was so unhappy my parents pulled me out in March. It was like being a cog in a factory. Nobody knew you, you had no rapport with the teachers or time to develop any with classmates (I was new to the school). Out of necessity, there was heavy emphasis on homework points sheets and behavior management. I was a good student and I hated it. I can't even imagine my ADHD kid in a similar scenario.

Well it would be a disaster for my special needs child who would be completely and utterly incapable oF functioning with that many kids and things going on in the classroom. I guess there are no kids among the 50 who have sensory issues, autism, attention issues, etc. Thank goodness for that because my Guess is for those kids it would be a nightmare. Maybe those are the kids whose parents are raising a fuss. I would have been fine in such a classroom, but my kids, not so much. It's absolutely a ridiculous idea unless you have assembled a class full of model students.

Signed, another happy East of the Park parent who loves 20-student classrooms

Anonymous wrote:Depending on the size of the classroom 50 kids is totally do able especially since the idea of whole group direct teaching is going by the wayside- Yes it would take sometime to teach the children how to work / or rotate through the groups/workstations but if it is as said experienced teachers in the classroom then it should be no problem other than the noise created by active engagement.
If there are also two student teachers and an aide then each person could have a small group to teach directly and work with for one area say One person does word study another does guided reading group or two could do guided reading groups and so on with so many people and resources in the room the needs of the children certainly could be met and with the use of the small groups the academics could be differentiated as well.

if this ior some other acceptable arrangement is what's going on in that classroom, then please, let's have the principal and the teachers explain it to the parents who are asking, instead of just trying to shush them.

And please bring in eight more desks.

Depending on the size of the classroom 50 kids is totally do able especially since the idea of whole group direct teaching is going by the wayside- Yes it would take sometime to teach the children how to work / or rotate through the groups/workstations but if it is as said experienced teachers in the classroom then it should be no problem other than the noise created by active engagement.
If there are also two student teachers and an aide then each person could have a small group to teach directly and work with for one area say One person does word study another does guided reading group or two could do guided reading groups and so on with so many people and resources in the room the needs of the children certainly could be met and with the use of the small groups the academics could be differentiated as well.

Anonymous wrote:50 kids in a classroom. Is that comparable to having 50 kids in a classroom who are band students or choir? If everyone's engaging and cooperative what's the big deal?

Engaging and cooperating are nice goals to have for an elective like a band or choir, but the classroom goals should be different for 50 EIGHT year olds who all have questions to be answered, need constant verbal and non-verbal feedback, and need opportunities to participate in group discussion and engage with each other, not sit listening and be shushed when a teacher sees them acting up.

Band or choir are GROUP activities. A set of activities in a 3rd grade classroom are not always GROUP activities.

This set-up (large class size, lecture (although who in their right mind spends all day with 3rd graders lecturing?)) benefits:
a) crowd control
b) passive learning
c) factory-model style learning

This is surely not the Lafayette that parents are clamoring to get into?

50 kids in a classroom. Is that comparable to having 50 kids in a classroom who are band students or choir? If everyone's engaging and cooperative what's the big deal?

I think the real questions boil down to: How is this system better for students than one teacher with a class of 25 or one teacher with a class of 50 and an aide? and Why can't all kids have desks?

The answer needs to be more than "These are excellent teachers who think everything will be fine."

The questions are legitimate. There may be good answers to them. It's very poor policy to just put parents off.

If you have two different teachers, both of whom are great at classroom management, what is gained by combining their classes?

Do you really not see the difference between two experienced teachers (plus two student teachers) and a teacher and an aide? I'm not sure many of you understand how classroom management is not something that everyone can do, but when you do have teachers who are skilled at it the classroom runs beautifully. OTOH, when you have a not-so-great teacher he or she can't handle even a small class. In this case there are two teachers who are both good at management and teaching.

Sure - but that type of classroom management is something that is done while teaching. I agree it's not easy, but in this situation, the teacher who is not teaching is reduced to the role of aide, right? She's not actively engaging the class, but watching them, and dealing with any discipline problems or wandering attention issues. I don't think that job requires a skilled classroom manager.

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I'm curious about something.
To all you parents who have kids in the class (and those who don't), would you be OK with 50 kids and an aide in a class? If not, why not? It's functionally equivalent to what is going on now. No expertise is needed for crowd control function the second teacher is performing during the lessons - the aide can do that just fine.

Do you really not see the difference between two experienced teachers (plus two student teachers) and a teacher and an aide? I'm not sure many of you understand how classroom management is not something that everyone can do, but when you do have teachers who are skilled at it the classroom runs beautifully. OTOH, when you have a not-so-great teacher he or she can't handle even a small class. In this case there are two teachers who are both good at management and teaching. I do understand how the thought of this type of class would be off-putting to lots of parents and maybe not the best thing for every student; however, it's not unique. Personally, I'm happy to have my child in this class rather than in a class with a first-time teacher or a bad teacher. Ultimately, the kids in this class and in this school are extremely lucky and most will go on to have successful school careers wherever they wind up because they have parents who are educated and who care. Lafayette now has the largest enrollment of any school in the city, so it's obvious there are lots of growing pains. However, it's hard to argue that it's not a very good school.

Anonymous wrote:Be glad you don't post detailed info that allows anonymous folks to create a googleable record discussing individual classroom issues for all to see for years into the future. 'Cause that's the downside of DCUM.

Geez, what more do you need? Someone posted the grade, the school, and the teachers names pages ago....

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I'm curious about something.
To all you parents who have kids in the class (and those who don't), would you be OK with 50 kids and an aide in a class? If not, why not? It's functionally equivalent to what is going on now. No expertise is needed for crowd control function the second teacher is performing during the lessons - the aide can do that just fine.

Anonymous wrote:Be glad you don't post detailed info that allows anonymous folks to create a googleable record discussing individual classroom issues for all to see for years into the future. 'Cause that's the downside of DCUM.

This is more than an individual classroom issue. This is yet another very clear piece of evidence that DCPS is not reliable. 50 children in a classroom is way too many. All children need chairs. If DCPS does not understand those two basic principles, it is not shocking that students in some classes are eating crack with their classmates while the classes are in session (yes, I know these are different schools, but it is the same system, and this type of decision-making is the cause).