To clarify: there are lots of examples of strivers who are Asian. But it is not a negatively Asian term.

The Trump example above is excellent - total social striver. And everyone should step away from DCUM for a second and watch the movie Election - she is a total striver - and is a pretty blond American girl.

I am Jewish and some of the worst strivers I know are fellow Jews.

So would the Asians here stop being so defensive. Stop completely lacking self-awareness. There are countless highly successful Asian-Americans who are not strivers at all. Sundar Pichai is ridiculously successful. He is brilliant. He is not the coolest guy around but he is not a total nerd. But he is universally acknowledged for working his way up through an incredibly competitive company that is likely full of strivers without being a striver. It can be done.

Anonymous wrote:Do you genuinely not get that there's a difference between a grinder and someone who works really hard because they are genuinely and intrinsically passionate about some cause other than prestige or self-promotion?

I've known both types of students. It can be really hard to tell them apart on the surface. I'm sure admissions committees make mistakes all the tie.

My kid is younger but. . .are many 17 year olds "genuinely and intrinsically passionate about some cause"? It just sounds awful.

I haven't read all of this. But I get the feeling a lot of people posting here are private school parents who are totally fine with their kids drifting into Colby and Colgate and so on. And they're fine with that. They have the resources and connections to make sure everything works out fine. And they look down on kids that actually try.

But in the real world, successful people who get things done do actually grind and strive. It's not a knock on these students. And nearly every employer these days prefers the grinders and strivers over the lazy rich kids who are only there because of daddy's connections.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think I’ve ever used these terms, but now I definitely won’t be using them, considering the huge 9 pages of assumptions people would make about what they do or don’t mean. These are some serious Rorschach words.

True that. People will continue to use these terms outside of dcum and I was just trying weigh in on what I think most people mean in today’s world and in the context of college admissions. We don’t always get to dictate how the majority of folks use words. Nor can we control how language changes over time.

I think we are now all aware that these words mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people!

It is the people on this board that put the wrong meaning on striver and grinder. Both have been and are great things. Everyone should be those. The weird spin on those words is from this board.

A grinder is someone who may not have all of the advantages and strengths but still is elite. You would call a football player a grinder who maybe was a little undersized and went to a smaller program who in a couple of years has made their game as elite as an Alabama first round draft pick.

Strivers on DCUM are a racial stereotype/labeling tool, used as opposed to “well-adjusted”/“well-rounded”, which in turn refers to a racial group gaming the college process (and beyond) through systematic cheating (e.g., buying adhd diagnosis and faking as Hispanic to gain unfair advantage) and mud-slinging other groups in the meantime.

OP here. I think I last posted on page 3 after I realized I shouldn’t call my kid a grinder/striver/curator, since that isn’t what most people would consider them to be, lol, so it’s been fascinating just reading the subsequent pages and the various turns this thread has taken. Feel free to continue as long as y’all like, of course.

Anonymous wrote:Would put these terms in a nature/nurture context.

First generation arrival, doesn’t speak English, successful in home country “strives” to reclaim that success in America. Positive implication of striver. Average American spends all their time studying trying to make the best of their situation at the expense of foregoing a balanced life. Negative implication of striver.


Grinder is someone who again tries to make the most of their natural ability. Positive or negative implication will be based on totality of lifestyle.

Curator, someone with the resources to create the illusion of competency. Can get you in the door but eventually the illusion falls apart.

On DCUM a grinder is someone who has overloaded and over rotated on academics at the expense of everyone else and who’s parents then complain that it’s unfair that they don’t get into the schools they lust after because of holistic admissions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you genuinely not get that there's a difference between a grinder and someone who works really hard because they are genuinely and intrinsically passionate about some cause other than prestige or self-promotion?

I've known both types of students. It can be really hard to tell them apart on the surface. I'm sure admissions committees make mistakes all the tie.

My first gen immigrant parents worked really hard to provide a better quality of life for future generations. They didn’t have the luxury of being “genuinely and intrinsically passionate” about their jobs. It sounds like you would use term “grinder” pejoratively regarding people like them?

Oh, give me a break. I'm actually first gen, both as an immigrant and as the first gen to attend college. And yet I was still raised with values besides caring about money and self-promotion and can tell the difference between a grinder/striver/curator and an intrinsically motivated person with genuine scholarly interests.

You didn’t answer my question. Are my parents bad people because they worked jobs they didn’t love?

Dp
No one cares about your parents
Chill

I don’t think I’ve ever used these terms, but now I definitely won’t be using them, considering the huge 9 pages of assumptions people would make about what they do or don’t mean. These are some serious Rorschach words.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am now starting to see that many of you think “grinder” just means hard working, so maybe I better be careful about using it pejoratively. But I still don’t think that’s what most people mean when they use the term

Agree that most people do not use the definition "merely hard working" for "grinder". Clearly some here do, but I doubt it is the most common meaning.

+1. But even amongst the people claiming that grinder means merely hard working, I don’t think most of them truly believe that. I think they realize that the negative strivery, grinder behavior being described here hits a little too close to home. And they feel the need to try to redirect it to “oh they’re just jealous because I/my kid are hard working and more successful.”

I can understand being confused by the term striver the first time you hear it here but after that it is pretty obvious what it refers to. We’ve all experienced strivery people in our lives, and if you haven’t, you might be the striver.

When someone calls my immigrant parents strivers because they pulled themselves up from almost nothing, yes, that hits close to home. I am proud my family is a bunch of strivers.

Your whole family went to an Ivy?

huh?

You clearly don’t know the definition of striver.

Isn’t this whole discussion about the definitions of these terms?

A PP said they judge people negatively when they are only “grinding” or “striving” for money and advancement, rather than for the pure joy of discovery and intellectual curiosity. Some people don’t have that luxury, including when applying to college.

And no, my striver family are not (all) Ivy League. Is that all that’s important to you? Then you are a climber.

Striver is anyone working to a goal that I personally don't think they deserve. Simple as that.

Anonymous wrote:Negative striver example: Trump and Melania trying to break into the NYC social scene

Positive striver example: immigrant who works hard and strives for the American dream.

Negative grinder: someone who thinks having an elite college name on a piece of paper with straight As is the penultimate, so they work day and night to achieve this

Positive grinder: low income American who works day and night to get into an elite school so that they can get out of poverty and help their family.

I guess the connotation of the word depends on the motive. But, since most people don't know the background of others, don't make assumptions.

Social Striver vs Educational Striver

Hyperelite exclusive competitive striver vs contribution to society striver.

Extractive striver vs creative striver.

The striving isn't the bad part. The goal makes it good or bad.

[quote=Anonymous]Negative striver example: Trump and Melania trying to break into the NYC social scene

Positive striver example: immigrant who works hard and strives for the American dream.

Negative grinder: someone who thinks having an elite college name on a piece of paper with straight As is the penultimate, so they work day and night to achieve this

Positive grinder: low income American who works day and night to get into an elite school so that they can get out of poverty and help their family.

I guess the connotation of the word depends on the motive. But, since most people don't know the background of others, don't make assumptions.[/quote]

Social Striver vs Educational Striver

Hyperelite exclusive competitive striver vs contribution to society striver.

Extractive striver vs creative striver.

The striving isn't the bad part. The goal makes it good or bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am now starting to see that many of you think “grinder” just means hard working, so maybe I better be careful about using it pejoratively. But I still don’t think that’s what most people mean when they use the term

Agree that most people do not use the definition "merely hard working" for "grinder". Clearly some here do, but I doubt it is the most common meaning.

+1. But even amongst the people claiming that grinder means merely hard working, I don’t think most of them truly believe that. I think they realize that the negative strivery, grinder behavior being described here hits a little too close to home. And they feel the need to try to redirect it to “oh they’re just jealous because I/my kid are hard working and more successful.”

I can understand being confused by the term striver the first time you hear it here but after that it is pretty obvious what it refers to. We’ve all experienced strivery people in our lives, and if you haven’t, you might be the striver.

Heh, great point. The striver always shows his true colors... they are striving over the definition of striver itself.