Anonymous wrote:When I was in school, disruptive kids were not much of an issue because the school and the teachers were extremely good at managing them. If there was a disruption, the teacher could remove the child quickly from the classroom and the lesson would continue.

My experience with private schools nowadays, through my child, has been very different. I see several disruptive kids who are not being effectively managed by the teacher, and those kids are eventually expelled.

So my question is: which approach is better overall? To me, there seems to be a trend toward shifting responsibility for classroom management from the teacher to the students. What do you think?

It really depends on how you define 'disruptive.' A bit of naughty behavior every now and then shouldn't earn a kid a negative label. I’ve seen many teachers call students disruptive just because they didn't follow an instruction exactly or got caught up in what another student was doing. Sometimes, teachers group kids together and label them all based on who they’re sitting with. If you happen to be talking to the 'wrong' person, you’re suddenly the problem. At the end of the day, not all teachers are great at managing a classroom, and just because they’re in charge doesn’t mean students can't voice a different perspective .

It’s not on the teacher. It’s the school policies and/or parenting. Teachers are only allowed to follow school policies. Also, kids today have more complicated behavioral issues. Since this is the private school forum, the school can absolutely ask a student to leave if they can’t resolve behavioral issues. In public school, this is more of an issue as every child has the right to a free public education and sometimes there simply isn’t a place that works for them. Years ago my friend’s son was approved for outside placement as a public school student and not one school she contacted was willing to have him due to a history of violent behaviors.

One of my kids attended a private school for a few years and we didn’t witness any really disruptive behavior aside from some kids being chatty or getting silly. Anything remotely serious was immediately handled by the school (and this wasn’t a school many here’s would consider strict by any means).

Anonymous wrote:It is the parent’s responsibility to have their kid’s behavior under control. Nobody else.

The kid, assuming they are older than 8, also has some responsibility for their own choices and actions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I talked to teachers and they have such a bad attitude towards disruptive kids. They don’t care if they learn or not, they just care that they have to work more.

They likely have bad attitudes because they are continually stretched beyond their limits. There are so few things they are permitted to do within their classrooms anymore. All while expected to differentiate, document, and keep moving forward with curriculum. They also continue to have larger classes and more students with 504’s, IEPs, and other issues.

It’s no wonder so many are leaving the profession. If the trend continues, the quality of education will keep declining. Something needs to change.

The underlying problem is that a portion of us no longer believe in any semblance of personal responsibilty or free will.

Anonymous wrote:I talked to teachers and they have such a bad attitude towards disruptive kids. They don’t care if they learn or not, they just care that they have to work more.

They likely have bad attitudes because they are continually stretched beyond their limits. There are so few things they are permitted to do within their classrooms anymore. All while expected to differentiate, document, and keep moving forward with curriculum. They also continue to have larger classes and more students with 504’s, IEPs, and other issues.

It’s no wonder so many are leaving the profession. If the trend continues, the quality of education will keep declining. Something needs to change.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Kid. Always the kid.[/quote]

A child is not their actions. Never the kid. Look at parents, teacher, school and classroom climate, and society. All behaviors are from unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. [/quote]

WTF? Are you trolling? It's disturbing that you've completely removed accountability and personal responsibility from the equation.

We're not talking about dogs or rats in an experiment. We're talking about human beings with free will and the intellectual capacity to know right from wrong.

[/quote]

You're not too bright are you. The fact of the matter is that all behaviors are rooted in unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. If you want to ignore that fact with adult behavior, go for it. In education, we should NOT ignore that fact and we (schools and teachers) can and should play some role in making sure children ages preschool to 18 get every opportunity available to have their needs met and to develop the competencies needed to behave appropriately and make responsible decisions. Parents also obviously are expected to play a huge role. Society should also play a role. [/quote]

Thank you for proving that it's the parents. You're right, bad behavior is being influenced by outside forces.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Kid. Always the kid.[/quote]

A child is not their actions. Never the kid. Look at parents, teacher, school and classroom climate, and society. All behaviors are from unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. [/quote]

WTF? Are you trolling? It's disturbing that you've completely removed accountability and personal responsibility from the equation.

We're not talking about dogs or rats in an experiment. We're talking about human beings with free will and the intellectual capacity to know right from wrong.

[/quote]

You're not too bright are you. The fact of the matter is that all behaviors are rooted in unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. If you want to ignore that fact with adult behavior, go for it. In education, we should NOT ignore that fact and we (schools and teachers) can and should play some role in making sure children ages preschool to 18 get every opportunity available to have their needs met and to develop the competencies needed to behave appropriately and make responsible decisions. Parents also obviously are expected to play a huge role. Society should also play a role.

If the students are eventually asked to leave then it seems like the school has a policy, it’s followed and resolved. Times have changed since you were a student. Teachers have to work within the school policy.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Kid. Always the kid.[/quote]

A child is not their actions. Never the kid. Look at parents, teacher, school and classroom climate, and society. All behaviors are from unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. [/quote]

WTF? Are you trolling? It's disturbing that you've completely removed accountability and personal responsibility from the equation.

We're not talking about dogs or rats in an experiment. We're talking about human beings with free will and the intellectual capacity to know right from wrong.

[/quote]

Depends on the age a bit, don’t you think?

It is the parent’s responsibility to have their kid’s behavior under control. Nobody else.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Kid. Always the kid.[/quote]

A child is not their actions. Never the kid. Look at parents, teacher, school and classroom climate, and society. All behaviors are from unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. [/quote]

WTF? Are you trolling? It's disturbing that you've completely removed accountability and personal responsibility from the equation.

We're not talking about dogs or rats in an experiment. We're talking about human beings with free will and the intellectual capacity to know right from wrong.

Anonymous wrote:I talked to teachers and they have such a bad attitude towards disruptive kids. They don’t care if they learn or not, they just care that they have to work more.

The teachers and schools should not have to deal with it. They notify the parents and if the parents cannot resolve it, the kids should be counseled out and gone from the school.

I talked to teachers and they have such a bad attitude towards disruptive kids. They don’t care if they learn or not, they just care that they have to work more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They make the nutty kids stay in a class to be sure that all the other kids are disturbed and hindered from learning. Then they can easily blame and disrupt teachers careers to take the fall, even though most aren't not paid enough to put up with this type of thing.

Remove the disruptive kids from school. It is the parent's fault. Private schools can just counsel them out. If the parent cannot resolve it, they should be gone.

+1. Many private school parents leave public school because their kids have been in classes with constant behavior disruptions. Private schools should figure out early on that the ROI is usually bad to keep a disruptive student enrolled. Other families pull their kids, the school gets a reputation for tolerating bad behavior, and you start to see high staff turnover. Even if the family has multiple children enrolled or makes a big donation it's usually not worth it.

Anonymous wrote:They make the nutty kids stay in a class to be sure that all the other kids are disturbed and hindered from learning. Then they can easily blame and disrupt teachers careers to take the fall, even though most aren't not paid enough to put up with this type of thing.

Remove the disruptive kids from school. It is the parent's fault. Private schools can just counsel them out. If the parent cannot resolve it, they should be gone.