They track gpa and major after enrollment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor and the idea of strategic position is so nauseating to me that I feel like writing a letter to our admissions office to let them know about what I read in this forum and others.

To be clear, I am not attacking the OP. She did what she felt she had to do to benefit her child. However, favoring students with unusual niche interests is clearly not the best way to find the most authentic students. Maybe this approach was more authentic 10 years ago before college admissions officers and parents pushed it en masse, but clearly this is no longer the way.

I always wonder how professors view their admissions offices and admission priorities.

Our child was told that activism was the essential key to admission to selective colleges. He followed a different path and somehow ended up at HYSPM.

He has met many classmates who were primarily involved in activism and impact-oriented activities. Sadly, he has seen those classmates struggle with the material to the confusion of their professors. I wonder if professors understand what the admissions offices are doing.

Professors admit graduate students, and since we work directly with the students we admit, we get obvious feedback on our selection methods. We see some students succeed, and others falter. Admissions officers don't have this benefit, because they will never teach the students they select.

This is why it surprises me that admission officers don’t get feedback/input from professors in making admissions priorities. The professors know who succeeds. Don’t admissions offices care about students’ success?

I agree, we need to improve the process. The main hurdle is that we don't admit students by major here in the US. In many other countries, the kids apply into specific programs that each have specific admissions tests, and academics interview the most promising candidates directly. The downside, though, is that kids would have to know what they want to major in when they apply to university.

I'd have to guess that admissions staff care about students' success, but they're so busy reading tens of thousands of applications that they don't have time to follow up on the thousands who do get admitted. And unless they are actually in the classroom with the students themselves, they won't be able to know who is contributes meaningfully to class discussions, who are the most engaged and enthusiastic members of labs, etc. I would like a system where we can flag the standout students in some way, so that the admissions office can get some useful info about their process.

This probably does get a kid into HPYSM, but it’s highly contrived, and thus, sad. It’s like the parent is applying to college.

We knew a case where a parent helped a kid do this and it was successful, but everyone who knew the kid and family knew this was the game plan since elementary school. The dad managed the kid’s life from 0-18 and probably is still at it. In the end, I’m not sure where this really gets a kid. I guess we’ll find out in 10-15 years.

This thread sounds like the "we gunned our kid for an Ivy and lost" thread, except the outcome was actually positive (ie. HYPSM sweep). I wonder how these kids with hawkish parents feel at the end of the whole admissions process -- happy that their parents' guidance landed them a top-tier admit or depressed/exhausted?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about deep interest in a subject and did a research in summer, but not getting all As? Where do such students land up?

Being candid, I don't really know. It's a good question. I think flagships and LACs might be good targets. And I don't think a B is the end of the world. My daughter had a B.

In 9th garde or 12 grade? Huge difference

I know someone who had a B+ in AP Calc BC in 12th and was admitted to MIT. You do not need to be perfect — so much pressure! What you do need to be is authentic — it really is the easiest way for an academically talented kid to get into these schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have to acknowledge that if a reader is going to remember you, you have to be memorable.

standard strong is not memorable in T20 pools. sorry. tell a story. make it easier on the reader to remember you, like you, want to admit you.

if you think that's a game, then just submit your 1540 and your AP scores and your essays about the big loss as a team that taught you more than the big win as an individual.

You have a point about being memorable but it may apply more to large publics than privates. Many feeder privates have a whopping 60-120 kids per class, among them only 20-30 kids max are considered top 10% and encouraged by CC to apply to T10 unhooked. When you do the math, that means on average T10 will only get 2-4 apps max from that high school. It won't be that hard for the regional rep assigned to the HS to remember the physics girl vs. the history boy.

My kid is at a top feeder in nyc. 150 in his class. College apps are limited. Still going to be 15-20 apps to every H Y P, Penn, Dartmouth Stanford, Duke, MIT, Northwestern, etc. These kids are all going to be top 15% of class (which Naviance shows is going to be good enough), all with an SAT 1540 plus, all great ECs. Some with be donor, legacy, questbridge, or athletes - mostly legacy or QB - or some other real bump. Harvard etc will take up to 4-5 so there's usually just 1 spot for the unhooked kid.

You better believe that one unhooked kid needs a narrative that is memorable

15%? That clearly isn’t a top feeder in NYC. There are at least ten nyc schools that send 40% to Ivy League

No there's not. I think only Brearley is 40%. We send about 30% and that's normal for top tier. (There aren't even 10 top tier HS in nyc)

You can be top 30% and get into Cornell, Columbia, or UChicago. top 25% and get into Brown or Penn A&S. But counselors will only recommend you to HYP if you're top 15% unless very hooked. What you hope is all the billionaires get in during ED and they do.

This is Spence (https://www.instagram.com/spence26niors/ ) from ED where only 34 have posted results and almost all are top 20. That is almost 50% of the class which is usually around 65 kids.

this is true for all TT high schools in nyc. legacy and questbridge all in ED rounds. spence and riverdale will both end up with about 30% to Ivies.

all TT have half their class go to Top 20 schools. there are only 7 top tier HS in nyc. been this way forever.

Only 7? What are the 7?

She doesn't know. And Riverdale is in Bronx, not in manhattan.

Anonymous wrote:I think you just invented a new term in lieu of spike. The difference between a spike and a barb is close to zero. Barb is the embodiment of the spike. No one can actually claim a spike without specific embodiment (barb), or it wouldn't be a spike. They all have to go deep at some point for the spike to work.

Give me one detailed example of someone got into HYPSM with a spike but not barb?

My kid. Cs major. Robotics (award), Programming club (awards), CS internships, taught kids to code (what else? Such a common thing), admitted to MIT and one other HYPSM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have to acknowledge that if a reader is going to remember you, you have to be memorable.

standard strong is not memorable in T20 pools. sorry. tell a story. make it easier on the reader to remember you, like you, want to admit you.

if you think that's a game, then just submit your 1540 and your AP scores and your essays about the big loss as a team that taught you more than the big win as an individual.

You have a point about being memorable but it may apply more to large publics than privates. Many feeder privates have a whopping 60-120 kids per class, among them only 20-30 kids max are considered top 10% and encouraged by CC to apply to T10 unhooked. When you do the math, that means on average T10 will only get 2-4 apps max from that high school. It won't be that hard for the regional rep assigned to the HS to remember the physics girl vs. the history boy.

My kid is at a top feeder in nyc. 150 in his class. College apps are limited. Still going to be 15-20 apps to every H Y P, Penn, Dartmouth Stanford, Duke, MIT, Northwestern, etc. These kids are all going to be top 15% of class (which Naviance shows is going to be good enough), all with an SAT 1540 plus, all great ECs. Some with be donor, legacy, questbridge, or athletes - mostly legacy or QB - or some other real bump. Harvard etc will take up to 4-5 so there's usually just 1 spot for the unhooked kid.

You better believe that one unhooked kid needs a narrative that is memorable

15%? That clearly isn’t a top feeder in NYC. There are at least ten nyc schools that send 40% to Ivy League

No there's not. I think only Brearley is 40%. We send about 30% and that's normal for top tier. (There aren't even 10 top tier HS in nyc)

You can be top 30% and get into Cornell, Columbia, or UChicago. top 25% and get into Brown or Penn A&S. But counselors will only recommend you to HYP if you're top 15% unless very hooked. What you hope is all the billionaires get in during ED and they do.

You clearly don't go to a NYC top private.

These are top feeder schools that sends 40% to ivy league:
Trinity
Dalton
HM
Collegiate
Brearley
Spence
Chapin
Regis
Nightingale
ECFS

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a professor and the idea of strategic position is so nauseating to me that I feel like writing a letter to our admissions office to let them know about what I read in this forum and others.

To be clear, I am not attacking the OP. She did what she felt she had to do to benefit her child. However, favoring students with unusual niche interests is clearly not the best way to find the most authentic students. Maybe this approach was more authentic 10 years ago before college admissions officers and parents pushed it en masse, but clearly this is no longer the way.

I always wonder how professors view their admissions offices and admission priorities.

Our child was told that activism was the essential key to admission to selective colleges. He followed a different path and somehow ended up at HYSPM.

He has met many classmates who were primarily involved in activism and impact-oriented activities. Sadly, he has seen those classmates struggle with the material to the confusion of their professors. I wonder if professors understand what the admissions offices are doing.

Professors admit graduate students, and since we work directly with the students we admit, we get obvious feedback on our selection methods. We see some students succeed, and others falter. Admissions officers don't have this benefit, because they will never teach the students they select.

This is why it surprises me that admission officers don’t get feedback/input from professors in making admissions priorities. The professors know who succeeds. Don’t admissions offices care about students’ success?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok you have one kid who made it to all HYPSM. Something about her application resonated with the admissions officers. Congrats. But I don't think everyone should be following your advice. Mine as just accepted early to 1 HYPSM this cycle. I suppose he had a spike (and barb) as do most interesting kids who are accepted to HYPSM.

I would completely agree with this. You think you're an expert based on a sample size of one. I see this all the time in my field. Believe me, they are not experts. Neither are you.

I applied to 3 tippy top schools back in my day. Accepted at all 3. I thought at the time I knew the reason these schools all accepted me. Then I gave it no thought for years and years. Until my kids got to college app age. Now, I think it was a different part of my profile entirely. Was I right as an 18 year old or a 50 year old? Who knows.

The whole point is that you think you know what resonated in your DD's app but really you don't know.

PP you are responding to. Yes, I totally agree. In fact, I'm a bit more confused after DC's early acceptance as I don't know what exactly helped him get admitted. I don't think I can give any definitive advice and anything I say is couched with "it worked for DC, but I don't know what will or will not make a difference for yours"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have to acknowledge that if a reader is going to remember you, you have to be memorable.

standard strong is not memorable in T20 pools. sorry. tell a story. make it easier on the reader to remember you, like you, want to admit you.

if you think that's a game, then just submit your 1540 and your AP scores and your essays about the big loss as a team that taught you more than the big win as an individual.

You have a point about being memorable but it may apply more to large publics than privates. Many feeder privates have a whopping 60-120 kids per class, among them only 20-30 kids max are considered top 10% and encouraged by CC to apply to T10 unhooked. When you do the math, that means on average T10 will only get 2-4 apps max from that high school. It won't be that hard for the regional rep assigned to the HS to remember the physics girl vs. the history boy.

My kid is at a top feeder in nyc. 150 in his class. College apps are limited. Still going to be 15-20 apps to every H Y P, Penn, Dartmouth Stanford, Duke, MIT, Northwestern, etc. These kids are all going to be top 15% of class (which Naviance shows is going to be good enough), all with an SAT 1540 plus, all great ECs. Some with be donor, legacy, questbridge, or athletes - mostly legacy or QB - or some other real bump. Harvard etc will take up to 4-5 so there's usually just 1 spot for the unhooked kid.

You better believe that one unhooked kid needs a narrative that is memorable

15%? That clearly isn’t a top feeder in NYC. There are at least ten nyc schools that send 40% to Ivy League

No there's not. I think only Brearley is 40%. We send about 30% and that's normal for top tier. (There aren't even 10 top tier HS in nyc)

You can be top 30% and get into Cornell, Columbia, or UChicago. top 25% and get into Brown or Penn A&S. But counselors will only recommend you to HYP if you're top 15% unless very hooked. What you hope is all the billionaires get in during ED and they do.

This is Spence (https://www.instagram.com/spence26niors/ ) from ED where only 34 have posted results and almost all are top 20. That is almost 50% of the class which is usually around 65 kids.

this is true for all TT high schools in nyc. legacy and questbridge all in ED rounds. spence and riverdale will both end up with about 30% to Ivies.

all TT have half their class go to Top 20 schools. there are only 7 top tier HS in nyc. been this way forever.

Only 7? What are the 7?

Watch that Hoffmann video if you want to know why admitted.

Anonymous wrote:Ok you have one kid who made it to all HYPSM. Something about her application resonated with the admissions officers. Congrats. But I don't think everyone should be following your advice. Mine as just accepted early to 1 HYPSM this cycle. I suppose he had a spike (and barb) as do most interesting kids who are accepted to HYPSM.

I would completely agree with this. You think you're an expert based on a sample size of one. I see this all the time in my field. Believe me, they are not experts. Neither are you.

I applied to 3 tippy top schools back in my day. Accepted at all 3. I thought at the time I knew the reason these schools all accepted me. Then I gave it no thought for years and years. Until my kids got to college app age. Now, I think it was a different part of my profile entirely. Was I right as an 18 year old or a 50 year old? Who knows.

The whole point is that you think you know what resonated in your DD's app but really you don't know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you tell us for those of you who got in the school/scores? Is it a barb with a 1450 and 3.8? Or are we talking tip top?

3.85 private
test optional.

Hard to believe if unhooked. So far, I never see anyone getting into HYPSM without 4.0. But I only see less than 10 students, all in public school.

we're at a school in nyc that sends at least 10% of class to HYPSM and there was no 4.0 last year or year before.

it's just a different grading scale.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have to acknowledge that if a reader is going to remember you, you have to be memorable.

standard strong is not memorable in T20 pools. sorry. tell a story. make it easier on the reader to remember you, like you, want to admit you.

if you think that's a game, then just submit your 1540 and your AP scores and your essays about the big loss as a team that taught you more than the big win as an individual.

You have a point about being memorable but it may apply more to large publics than privates. Many feeder privates have a whopping 60-120 kids per class, among them only 20-30 kids max are considered top 10% and encouraged by CC to apply to T10 unhooked. When you do the math, that means on average T10 will only get 2-4 apps max from that high school. It won't be that hard for the regional rep assigned to the HS to remember the physics girl vs. the history boy.

My kid is at a top feeder in nyc. 150 in his class. College apps are limited. Still going to be 15-20 apps to every H Y P, Penn, Dartmouth Stanford, Duke, MIT, Northwestern, etc. These kids are all going to be top 15% of class (which Naviance shows is going to be good enough), all with an SAT 1540 plus, all great ECs. Some with be donor, legacy, questbridge, or athletes - mostly legacy or QB - or some other real bump. Harvard etc will take up to 4-5 so there's usually just 1 spot for the unhooked kid.

You better believe that one unhooked kid needs a narrative that is memorable

15%? That clearly isn’t a top feeder in NYC. There are at least ten nyc schools that send 40% to Ivy League

No there's not. I think only Brearley is 40%. We send about 30% and that's normal for top tier. (There aren't even 10 top tier HS in nyc)

You can be top 30% and get into Cornell, Columbia, or UChicago. top 25% and get into Brown or Penn A&S. But counselors will only recommend you to HYP if you're top 15% unless very hooked. What you hope is all the billionaires get in during ED and they do.

This is Spence (https://www.instagram.com/spence26niors/ ) from ED where only 34 have posted results and almost all are top 20. That is almost 50% of the class which is usually around 65 kids.

this is true for all TT high schools in nyc. legacy and questbridge all in ED rounds. spence and riverdale will both end up with about 30% to Ivies.

all TT have half their class go to Top 20 schools. there are only 7 top tier HS in nyc. been this way forever.