Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So people don't get confused, it's important to point out those leos mentioned by the previous poster are NOT paid for by the county. Meet fees, coaching fees and all apparel are paid for by the families with athletes. These aren't coming out of your tax dollars.

As they should be! But people have said upthread the coaches are considered county employees. Are the families covering 100% of coaching costs? Are the families covering any of the cost of maintaining a gymnastics gym? Insurance?

It sounds like from those in the know that maintenance of these facilities is no small thing. The county can’t be renting out to everyone if they don’t have the staff to ensure the facilities and equipment are kept in 100% safe condition 100% of the time. There really is no comparison to any other type of facility.

The county doesn't provide parents with a breakdown of how our fees are used. How would we know? We pay fees to the county and fees to the parent association. Presumably APR applies the same methodology to set gymnastics fees as it does for other youth sports.

Just like Dynamic and YMCA, staff (not necessarily coaches) are present during rentals to make sure guests act appropriately. That's not an obstacle.

Are they checking to make sure the uneven bars and pads and other apparatus are in 100% safe condition at all times? County facility = county liability

There used to be gymnastics birthday parties as an option. It was always booked. Also used to have a four hour kids night out every session, also always booked. Not sure when/if they stopped that, but just for the sake of the discussion I guess the county had the numbers on whether that was worthwhile budget wise. For perspective from a private facility, not all private facilities are doing birthday parties either. It is not that profitable (although not saying that if it breaks even, it’s not a worthwhile pursuit of county facilities if it can be scheduled). It is a good way to attract new clientele, but it comes at the expense of staffing other classes and programs, so if you have a waitlist then it doesn’t make tons of sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So people don't get confused, it's important to point out those leos mentioned by the previous poster are NOT paid for by the county. Meet fees, coaching fees and all apparel are paid for by the families with athletes. These aren't coming out of your tax dollars.

As they should be! But people have said upthread the coaches are considered county employees. Are the families covering 100% of coaching costs? Are the families covering any of the cost of maintaining a gymnastics gym? Insurance?

It sounds like from those in the know that maintenance of these facilities is no small thing. The county can’t be renting out to everyone if they don’t have the staff to ensure the facilities and equipment are kept in 100% safe condition 100% of the time. There really is no comparison to any other type of facility.

The county doesn't provide parents with a breakdown of how our fees are used. How would we know? We pay fees to the county and fees to the parent association. Presumably APR applies the same methodology to set gymnastics fees as it does for other youth sports.

Just like Dynamic and YMCA, staff (not necessarily coaches) are present during rentals to make sure guests act appropriately. That's not an obstacle.

Anonymous wrote:So people don't get confused, it's important to point out those leos mentioned by the previous poster are NOT paid for by the county. Meet fees, coaching fees and all apparel are paid for by the families with athletes. These aren't coming out of your tax dollars.

As they should be! But people have said upthread the coaches are considered county employees. Are the families covering 100% of coaching costs? Are the families covering any of the cost of maintaining a gymnastics gym? Insurance?

It sounds like from those in the know that maintenance of these facilities is no small thing. The county can’t be renting out to everyone if they don’t have the staff to ensure the facilities and equipment are kept in 100% safe condition 100% of the time. There really is no comparison to any other type of facility.

So people don't get confused, it's important to point out those leos mentioned by the previous poster are NOT paid for by the county. Meet fees, coaching fees and all apparel are paid for by the families with athletes. These aren't coming out of your tax dollars.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not really whether demand is there. It’s should the county be doing it at all. I don’t really need to pay tax dollars so Larlas can take heavily subsidized gymnastics in prime County space that could be used to serve residents more broadly. Let alone subsidizing some kind of club gymnastics team. Who knew that was even a thing.

Private places will fill the gap eventually if the county stops doing it.

Barcroft also has baseball facilities. Should we do away with those? What about the many many soccer fields? The $$$ aquatics center and HS pools? Let’s just get rid of all youth programs so your precious tax dollars don’t have to support any of this. 🙄 Clearly we shouldn’t subsidize things you random poster don’t personally use.

These facilities (aside from Long Bridge) are likely funding a huge part of their cost from rentals, classes, and use fees. I am most familiar with Yorktown and W&L pools, and they are booked up for 10-12+ hours a day Monday-Sunday, between paid public access, private rentals, APS instructional needs, and APS swim school programs.

Soccer fields and baseball fields are similarly booked up, have lower costs than a purpose built gym where kids can become paralyzed from one simple fall, and are generally situated on land the county does not want to build. The costs are nowhere near comparable to a purpose built elite gymnastics facility which is not accessible at all to the general public.

To be clear, Barcroft isn't an elite gym. It's a basic gymnastics gym. It is far from having all the bells and whistles that you see at elite gyms. The county program tries hard to make affordable choices, like choosing a less expensive competition leotard and keeping the same one for years so they can be passed down. You'll also see Dynamic flying 7-9 yos to Florida for competition, while the county program has parents drive to Woodbridge. It's designed to make gymnastics more affordable by its choices. The parent association also hosts a home meet each year with a huge amount of parent labor to raise money to pay coaches and pay competition fees. I think a lot of folks don't understand how the program is run. It's purposely frugal. It's not a flashy commercial program.

If the Barcroft gymnastics facility isn't 100% booked right now, that's because APR isn't doing its job. There is tons of demand. I have no idea what it's utilization is (nor do you) but it could be booked all of the time and it already is used year round, including during times when other facilities are closed like the weeks between Xmas and New Year's and during spring break. Gymnastics is always happening.

And yes, kids can get hurt doing gymnastics, but they can drown in pools, break bones on playgrounds or get concussions playing soccer. Meh.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not really whether demand is there. It’s should the county be doing it at all. I don’t really need to pay tax dollars so Larlas can take heavily subsidized gymnastics in prime County space that could be used to serve residents more broadly. Let alone subsidizing some kind of club gymnastics team. Who knew that was even a thing.

Private places will fill the gap eventually if the county stops doing it.

Barcroft also has baseball facilities. Should we do away with those? What about the many many soccer fields? The $$$ aquatics center and HS pools? Let’s just get rid of all youth programs so your precious tax dollars don’t have to support any of this. 🙄 Clearly we shouldn’t subsidize things you random poster don’t personally use.

These facilities (aside from Long Bridge) are likely funding a huge part of their cost from rentals, classes, and use fees. I am most familiar with Yorktown and W&L pools, and they are booked up for 10-12+ hours a day Monday-Sunday, between paid public access, private rentals, APS instructional needs, and APS swim school programs.

Soccer fields and baseball fields are similarly booked up, have lower costs than a purpose built gym where kids can become paralyzed from one simple fall, and are generally situated on land the county does not want to build. The costs are nowhere near comparable to a purpose built elite gymnastics facility which is not accessible at all to the general public.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

The county already allows private rentals of fields, pavilions, and rec center rooms for parties. My kid’s travel team pays fees to use the Barcroft indoor baseball facilities. DPR offers party rental packages that include bounce houses and skate nights. You can book parts of the aquatics center for private events. So it’s not like the county hasn’t already gotten into the birthday party business to subsidize activities.

Unless things have changed, the competitive teams basically pay for themselves. If there is travel involved, the cost for hotels & transportation of the coaches is paid for my the competitive team, not the county. The team fees could 100% be higher, especially if you compare them to private facilities around the area.

The comment about gymnasts finding out while they were at VHSL states isn't endearing. It really has nothing to do with the fight. Yes, YHS had a good year b/c they have gymnasts who are trained by the Aerials. YHS has a good swim team b/c they have swimmers who are in year round programs. That's not a compelling reason.

That said, it would be idiotic to close the program. DPR got into a pickle b/c they spend a ton of money to transport the basketball side of the gym to accommodate the class demand the boys team. Then COVID messed everything up, along with bringing in a director who wanted to promote only Xcel and not DP. oops. They need to increase staffing and have been having troubles. How about an on-site training program? You aren't going to train those coaches needed for higher level competitive athletes, but you could certainly train up to a pre-team level for all the classes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A full fledged gymnastics program doesn't make sense.

You can provide tumbling and dance classes with far less equipment and much lower insurance costs, and that will be enough for like 95% of kids to get the exposure they need to a sport they might enjoy. The die hards can go pay for private instruction on all the apparatus (with the added risks of injury and the much higher facility costs due to the equipment and insurance requirements). There's no reason for a full scale gymnastics facility.

Focusing on sports with minimal equipment needs also makes it easier for the county to invest in coaching, clean and updated facilities, and fitness offerings that have broader social benefits. Gymnastics-obsessed kids are not some underserved demographic here.

The county can't build the boondoggle that is Long Bridge and then say it won't invest in youth sports that require specialized facilities. Besides, this program is already running and has been for nearly 50 years. The equipment is there. The building is there. Many kids are heavily invested in the program. And yes, gymnastics is underserved in Arlington. It's super hard to get into classes, with long waitlists, and there are not adequate local facilities. Just because it's not the sport your kid has chosen doesn't make it deserving of being killed. The county needs to engage on options.

I never supported Long Bridge, and we are a swimming family. The location stinks, and it seems like it is better positioned to serve the wealthy retirees of DC and Maryland than Arlington tax paying families.

But there is zero doubt in my mind that if AAC shut down tomorrow, DPS could fill the lanes with paying customers by the end of the month.

I'd love to see the numbers on who and how many people are actually paying for memberships to Long Bridge. It's super expensive and in a stupid location, not to mention all the shutdowns for repairs to a brand new facility. I bet it's a huge cost drain.

Anonymous wrote:It’s not really whether demand is there. It’s should the county be doing it at all. I don’t really need to pay tax dollars so Larlas can take heavily subsidized gymnastics in prime County space that could be used to serve residents more broadly. Let alone subsidizing some kind of club gymnastics team. Who knew that was even a thing.

Private places will fill the gap eventually if the county stops doing it.

Barcroft also has baseball facilities. Should we do away with those? What about the many many soccer fields? The $$$ aquatics center and HS pools? Let’s just get rid of all youth programs so your precious tax dollars don’t have to support any of this. 🙄 Clearly we shouldn’t subsidize things you random poster don’t personally use.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A full fledged gymnastics program doesn't make sense.

You can provide tumbling and dance classes with far less equipment and much lower insurance costs, and that will be enough for like 95% of kids to get the exposure they need to a sport they might enjoy. The die hards can go pay for private instruction on all the apparatus (with the added risks of injury and the much higher facility costs due to the equipment and insurance requirements). There's no reason for a full scale gymnastics facility.

Focusing on sports with minimal equipment needs also makes it easier for the county to invest in coaching, clean and updated facilities, and fitness offerings that have broader social benefits. Gymnastics-obsessed kids are not some underserved demographic here.

The county can't build the boondoggle that is Long Bridge and then say it won't invest in youth sports that require specialized facilities. Besides, this program is already running and has been for nearly 50 years. The equipment is there. The building is there. Many kids are heavily invested in the program. And yes, gymnastics is underserved in Arlington. It's super hard to get into classes, with long waitlists, and there are not adequate local facilities. Just because it's not the sport your kid has chosen doesn't make it deserving of being killed. The county needs to engage on options.

This could be said for hockey, and yet the county does not engage.

The Ballston rink is a local option and I've never heard of waitlists to participate.

Skating classes and the rooftop hockey league both fill up quickly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A full fledged gymnastics program doesn't make sense.

You can provide tumbling and dance classes with far less equipment and much lower insurance costs, and that will be enough for like 95% of kids to get the exposure they need to a sport they might enjoy. The die hards can go pay for private instruction on all the apparatus (with the added risks of injury and the much higher facility costs due to the equipment and insurance requirements). There's no reason for a full scale gymnastics facility.

Focusing on sports with minimal equipment needs also makes it easier for the county to invest in coaching, clean and updated facilities, and fitness offerings that have broader social benefits. Gymnastics-obsessed kids are not some underserved demographic here.

The county can't build the boondoggle that is Long Bridge and then say it won't invest in youth sports that require specialized facilities. Besides, this program is already running and has been for nearly 50 years. The equipment is there. The building is there. Many kids are heavily invested in the program. And yes, gymnastics is underserved in Arlington. It's super hard to get into classes, with long waitlists, and there are not adequate local facilities. Just because it's not the sport your kid has chosen doesn't make it deserving of being killed. The county needs to engage on options.

I never supported Long Bridge, and we are a swimming family. The location stinks, and it seems like it is better positioned to serve the wealthy retirees of DC and Maryland than Arlington tax paying families.

But there is zero doubt in my mind that if AAC shut down tomorrow, DPS could fill the lanes with paying customers by the end of the month.

Anonymous wrote:Arlington needs to cut down on its bloated, overpaid police force. Targeting the wrong things, as usual.

They are understaffed and have been for years. They quite literally cannot pay people enough to do it. Turns out people aren’t so in to being police officers anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A full fledged gymnastics program doesn't make sense.

You can provide tumbling and dance classes with far less equipment and much lower insurance costs, and that will be enough for like 95% of kids to get the exposure they need to a sport they might enjoy. The die hards can go pay for private instruction on all the apparatus (with the added risks of injury and the much higher facility costs due to the equipment and insurance requirements). There's no reason for a full scale gymnastics facility.

Focusing on sports with minimal equipment needs also makes it easier for the county to invest in coaching, clean and updated facilities, and fitness offerings that have broader social benefits. Gymnastics-obsessed kids are not some underserved demographic here.

The county can't build the boondoggle that is Long Bridge and then say it won't invest in youth sports that require specialized facilities. Besides, this program is already running and has been for nearly 50 years. The equipment is there. The building is there. Many kids are heavily invested in the program. And yes, gymnastics is underserved in Arlington. It's super hard to get into classes, with long waitlists, and there are not adequate local facilities. Just because it's not the sport your kid has chosen doesn't make it deserving of being killed. The county needs to engage on options.

If you’re a competitive gymnastics family, would you be willing to pay closer to what it actually costs to keep this program running? Even if it means your fees triple?

If the answer is no, there is no need for further discussion.

Very interested to see the numbers on what they’d have to pay.