Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you really need to step into this century and realize that girls are not disadvantaged in any way as elementary schoolers, and in fact are doing better than boys by every measure. It’s time to stop holding 8 year old boys responsible for the actions of men who lived generations ago. Keep marginalizing boys and scoffing at their need for emotional connection, but don’t be surprised when there are zero emotionally or economically viable men for your girls to marry.

-Mom of girl and boy

I agree with all this (also a mom to a girl and boy), but also I think there are some places and spaces where single gender activities make sense and can be useful. I strongly support GOTR’s existence; I also support boys having their own spaces to build confidence

Agree. Girls ruined Boy Scouts.

Anonymous wrote:DS’s bestie is going to join GOTR soon. They have been friends since pre-K and we asked for them to be placed in the same class every year. He would like to do GOTR with her.

Is it open to boys?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you really need to step into this century and realize that girls are not disadvantaged in any way as elementary schoolers, and in fact are doing better than boys by every measure. It’s time to stop holding 8 year old boys responsible for the actions of men who lived generations ago. Keep marginalizing boys and scoffing at their need for emotional connection, but don’t be surprised when there are zero emotionally or economically viable men for your girls to marry.

-Mom of girl and boy

I agree with all this (also a mom to a girl and boy), but also I think there are some places and spaces where single gender activities make sense and can be useful. I strongly support GOTR’s existence; I also support boys having their own spaces to build confidence

Anonymous wrote:Some of you really need to step into this century and realize that girls are not disadvantaged in any way as elementary schoolers, and in fact are doing better than boys by every measure. It’s time to stop holding 8 year old boys responsible for the actions of men who lived generations ago. Keep marginalizing boys and scoffing at their need for emotional connection, but don’t be surprised when there are zero emotionally or economically viable men for your girls to marry.

-Mom of girl and boy

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do girls get to have their own organizations and colleges, yet anything that was previously all boys has been disbanded or made to include girls? Are there any male only organizations, clubs anymore?

There are a few all-male colleges and schools. And of course sports teams. But I don’t think there are any all male civic or social organizations.

What college in the US is for males only?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do girls get to have their own organizations and colleges, yet anything that was previously all boys has been disbanded or made to include girls? Are there any male only organizations, clubs anymore?

There are a few all-male colleges and schools. And of course sports teams. But I don’t think there are any all male civic or social organizations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS’s bestie is going to join GOTR soon. They have been friends since pre-K and we asked for them to be placed in the same class every year. He would like to do GOTR with her.

Is it open to boys?

No, Girls on the Run is an organization that’s solely for girls. Just like Boy Scouts is only for boys.

I see what you did there!

Expressed ignorance? Or made a comment in bad faith? What did they do? Explain it to me like I'm five! I'm DYING to know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. And use the opportunity to help him understand the motivation behind programs like this for girls. If he is elementary age, he can understand it.

Sort of like Cub Scouts used to be just for boys, until parents of girls ruined that?

Cub scouts let girls in because they were in financial trouble and needed a way to boost membership. And no, it hasn't ruined it for the boys at all. -Mom of a (boy) Cub scout.

Of course it has. The entire premise of the organization changed. Just because you have told your son that it’s good and normal doesn’t mean that it is.

Literally none of the Scout laws have changed. And thinking that it's not "good and normal" because there were girls at Pinewood Derby today is pretty bonkers.

So why can’t boys be at GOTR then? The girls (and boys) can still get exercise and learn leadership skills. Just like by allowing girls into cub scouts, the boys can still race pinewood derby cars.

You can’t have it both ways and roll your eyes and say of course it’s fine to allow girls to join a boys only organization, and simultaneously insist boys can’t join a girls only organization.

Last time I checked, girls could do both Girl Scouts and cub scouts, but boys couldn’t do Girl Scouts. So the message here is that girls can do anything and boys cannot. Look at the best students, the leaders, the art competition winners, the class presidents in your child’s elementary school. Then tell me if it’s girls or boys who are losing their way and losing their sense of belonging right now.

Oh and check the suspension rate for girls vs boys while you’re at it.

Look, I'm all for more appropriate developmental approaches to kids in schools. I've worked to improve my kid's school. But again none of this explains why girls in my son's Cub Scout troop is harmful or not normal, as was claimed previously.

Boy Scouts went coed to survive after the organization massively screwed up with a child abuse scandal (and they have taken steps, as a volunteer I eent through a bunch of training and rules to prevent abuse situation). Girls didn't force their way in or take something away from the boys.

There are also boys running programs, as shown by a quick Google. Let me Run and Boys Gotta Run for two examples.

But boys see that those organizations don’t exist and it is a bit much to expect parents to immediately start one as soon as the boy notices it. Yes we do need to create opportunities for boys but you are not being realistic if you think the same kind of support exists as for girls organizations - in terms of grants, organizing help, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if many PTAs and schools passively or even actively prevent a boys club from getting off the ground.

How do you think the girls organizations got started? Genuinely.

And I know starting a club isn't easy because I've done it. But I did do it. Demanding there's instantly a club for you without putting any work in so... girls stuff bad? You're tearing down and refusing to build. Do better.

No you “do better.” because we all know that you would be the PTA mom who would withhold the funding for an organization that centers boys.

Former GOTR coach and the PTA at our school didn’t fund anything. The coaches are volunteer and the participants pay to join. Not a dime from the PTA and we couldn’t even use the school building.
Next.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. And use the opportunity to help him understand the motivation behind programs like this for girls. If he is elementary age, he can understand it.

Sort of like Cub Scouts used to be just for boys, until parents of girls ruined that?

Cub scouts let girls in because they were in financial trouble and needed a way to boost membership. And no, it hasn't ruined it for the boys at all. -Mom of a (boy) Cub scout.

Of course it has. The entire premise of the organization changed. Just because you have told your son that it’s good and normal doesn’t mean that it is.

Literally none of the Scout laws have changed. And thinking that it's not "good and normal" because there were girls at Pinewood Derby today is pretty bonkers.

So why can’t boys be at GOTR then? The girls (and boys) can still get exercise and learn leadership skills. Just like by allowing girls into cub scouts, the boys can still race pinewood derby cars.

You can’t have it both ways and roll your eyes and say of course it’s fine to allow girls to join a boys only organization, and simultaneously insist boys can’t join a girls only organization.

Last time I checked, girls could do both Girl Scouts and cub scouts, but boys couldn’t do Girl Scouts. So the message here is that girls can do anything and boys cannot. Look at the best students, the leaders, the art competition winners, the class presidents in your child’s elementary school. Then tell me if it’s girls or boys who are losing their way and losing their sense of belonging right now.

Oh and check the suspension rate for girls vs boys while you’re at it.

Look, I'm all for more appropriate developmental approaches to kids in schools. I've worked to improve my kid's school. But again none of this explains why girls in my son's Cub Scout troop is harmful or not normal, as was claimed previously.

Boy Scouts went coed to survive after the organization massively screwed up with a child abuse scandal (and they have taken steps, as a volunteer I eent through a bunch of training and rules to prevent abuse situation). Girls didn't force their way in or take something away from the boys.

There are also boys running programs, as shown by a quick Google. Let me Run and Boys Gotta Run for two examples.

But boys see that those organizations don’t exist and it is a bit much to expect parents to immediately start one as soon as the boy notices it. Yes we do need to create opportunities for boys but you are not being realistic if you think the same kind of support exists as for girls organizations - in terms of grants, organizing help, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if many PTAs and schools passively or even actively prevent a boys club from getting off the ground.

How do you think the girls organizations got started? Genuinely.

And I know starting a club isn't easy because I've done it. But I did do it. Demanding there's instantly a club for you without putting any work in so... girls stuff bad? You're tearing down and refusing to build. Do better.

No you “do better.” because we all know that you would be the PTA mom who would withhold the funding for an organization that centers boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS’s bestie is going to join GOTR soon. They have been friends since pre-K and we asked for them to be placed in the same class every year. He would like to do GOTR with her.

Is it open to boys?

No, Girls on the Run is an organization that’s solely for girls. Just like Boy Scouts is only for boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

What? We're talking about trying to start clubs to give our boys a positive experience. My experience is that most people are not willing to step up to lead stuff, so people with motivation can make things happen most of the time. But you seem pretty sure we are all conspiring to stop you.

Come on just stop. Not everyone has the resources to just “start a club” and anyone who has been even peripherally involved in PTA crap knows that there are many hurdles and possible actual roadblocks. People still get mad if you even dare to say out loud that your boy feels excluded. as evinced on this thread! Plus there is no other area where we would put the burden on the excluded group to fix things. My stance is that the institutions that are supporting all girl organizations need to also be affirmatively supporting all boys groups. If you object to that, ask yourself why.

Again this boils down to "I'm not putting the work in, I demand other people conform to me."

Look, if you are trying to convince me that boys don’t have an uphill battle for inclusion, you aren’t doing a great job.

We have literally given links to boys' run organizations. Some of them are active at NoVa schools. Go email them.

Because we all know that a link to something happening at an entirely different school solves lack of inclusion at your own school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS’s bestie is going to join GOTR soon. They have been friends since pre-K and we asked for them to be placed in the same class every year. He would like to do GOTR with her.

Is it open to boys?

No, Girls on the Run is an organization that’s solely for girls. Just like Boy Scouts is only for boys.

I see what you did there!

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, so because there are more 50+ year old men in positions of power, 8 year old boys should be given the message that they do not need or deserve any emotional support or empowerment? Our society would quickly fall apart if we started holding people accountable for others’ past actions. The actual data shows that, if anything, boys need a lot more support and leadership instruction than girls at the elementary level.

I have both a boy and a girl, but it is really sad to see the attitude toward boys these days. My daughter is much more confident and optimistic than my son, and I worry about the messages our boys are receiving from society.