Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former DCPS employee and I want to chime in on the first thing a poster raised a liability that actually indicates competence of this new school: suspension and/or expulsion.

First of all, it is nearly impossible to expel a kid in DCPS. Period. This has nothing to do with the actual school.

Second, I'm going to argue that if a school has a high suspension rate, that means they have a strong admin team that "sweats the small stuff" and is good at dotting i's and crossing t's.

Non-DCPS people have NO idea how many suspensions (for really serious things) Central denies because something was wrong in the paperwork or they feel the school didn't demonstrate reasonable prior steps. Walk in any DCPS school (save for probably Walls and Banneker) and you're going to have kids trying to vape in the bathroom, trying to sneak weed in, the same few kids (less than 2% of the overall student body) trying over and over again to fight, or some other type of poor behavior. If a school has a high suspension rate, it's not necessarily indicative of "oh man, the baddest of the bad kids go here!", but rather a "this is an admin team that knows what they're doing and doesn't play." One school I worked at had a very low suspension rate because the assistant principals were too incompetent to get a suspension package together that Central would actually approve.

Thought we needed some facts to accompany our pearl clutching.

+100. I was just thinking about this- I also know how hard it is to expel kids from DCPS (they basically have to bring a gun to campus to be expelled)… and if there is a high suspension rate it means admin is on top of things- and knowing about the admin at MacArthur- they are some of the strongest and most competent in the city. The pearl clutching is insane.

I wish there was more username usage on this board, because some of yall be making it make sense. I want to be able to follow your thoughts across various issues.

Anonymous wrote:Former DCPS employee and I want to chime in on the first thing a poster raised a liability that actually indicates competence of this new school: suspension and/or expulsion.

First of all, it is nearly impossible to expel a kid in DCPS. Period. This has nothing to do with the actual school.

Second, I'm going to argue that if a school has a high suspension rate, that means they have a strong admin team that "sweats the small stuff" and is good at dotting i's and crossing t's.

Non-DCPS people have NO idea how many suspensions (for really serious things) Central denies because something was wrong in the paperwork or they feel the school didn't demonstrate reasonable prior steps. Walk in any DCPS school (save for probably Walls and Banneker) and you're going to have kids trying to vape in the bathroom, trying to sneak weed in, the same few kids (less than 2% of the overall student body) trying over and over again to fight, or some other type of poor behavior. If a school has a high suspension rate, it's not necessarily indicative of "oh man, the baddest of the bad kids go here!", but rather a "this is an admin team that knows what they're doing and doesn't play." One school I worked at had a very low suspension rate because the assistant principals were too incompetent to get a suspension package together that Central would actually approve.

Thought we needed some facts to accompany our pearl clutching.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former DCPS employee and I want to chime in on the first thing a poster raised a liability that actually indicates competence of this new school: suspension and/or expulsion.

First of all, it is nearly impossible to expel a kid in DCPS. Period. This has nothing to do with the actual school.

Second, I'm going to argue that if a school has a high suspension rate, that means they have a strong admin team that "sweats the small stuff" and is good at dotting i's and crossing t's.

Non-DCPS people have NO idea how many suspensions (for really serious things) Central denies because something was wrong in the paperwork or they feel the school didn't demonstrate reasonable prior steps. Walk in any DCPS school (save for probably Walls and Banneker) and you're going to have kids trying to vape in the bathroom, trying to sneak weed in, the same few kids (less than 2% of the overall student body) trying over and over again to fight, or some other type of poor behavior. If a school has a high suspension rate, it's not necessarily indicative of "oh man, the baddest of the bad kids go here!", but rather a "this is an admin team that knows what they're doing and doesn't play." One school I worked at had a very low suspension rate because the assistant principals were too incompetent to get a suspension package together that Central would actually approve.

Thought we needed some facts to accompany our pearl clutching.

+100. I was just thinking about this- I also know how hard it is to expel kids from DCPS (they basically have to bring a gun to campus to be expelled)… and if there is a high suspension rate it means admin is on top of things- and knowing about the admin at MacArthur- they are some of the strongest and most competent in the city. The pearl clutching is insane.

Anonymous wrote:Former DCPS employee and I want to chime in on the first thing a poster raised a liability that actually indicates competence of this new school: suspension and/or expulsion.

First of all, it is nearly impossible to expel a kid in DCPS. Period. This has nothing to do with the actual school.

Second, I'm going to argue that if a school has a high suspension rate, that means they have a strong admin team that "sweats the small stuff" and is good at dotting i's and crossing t's.

Non-DCPS people have NO idea how many suspensions (for really serious things) Central denies because something was wrong in the paperwork or they feel the school didn't demonstrate reasonable prior steps. Walk in any DCPS school (save for probably Walls and Banneker) and you're going to have kids trying to vape in the bathroom, trying to sneak weed in, the same few kids (less than 2% of the overall student body) trying over and over again to fight, or some other type of poor behavior. If a school has a high suspension rate, it's not necessarily indicative of "oh man, the baddest of the bad kids go here!", but rather a "this is an admin team that knows what they're doing and doesn't play." One school I worked at had a very low suspension rate because the assistant principals were too incompetent to get a suspension package together that Central would actually approve.

Thought we needed some facts to accompany our pearl clutching.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

I work in college admissions so I know that the statement above is out of date. In fact, even colleges admitting in the single digits and teens ("Ivy Plus" and top 10 SLACs) have been steadily deemphasizing AP Calc in admissions for applicants who aren't engineering-oriented in the past decade. Admissions officers are increasingly happy with AP Stats instead, or a pass in IB Diploma Standard Level mixed math as long as an applicant is strong subject that line up with their likely intended major/concentration. If you doubt this, do a search. It's true.

Correct.

This is bad advice. If your kid has to take Calculus as a core requirement in college, they should definitely take AP Calculus.

The Cal in college moves fast and overwhelming majority of kids have taken AP calculus and can keep up. Your kid will struggle.

If they don’t have to take any Calculus then it’s not an issue. But we all know that the discussion here is about advance math and the kids who will likely be going into a STEM major.

Why would kids who took calculus in high school retake the same course in college?

They did not get a 4 or 5 on AP exam to get out of it. It’s a core requirement in lots of schools

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

I work in college admissions so I know that the statement above is out of date. In fact, even colleges admitting in the single digits and teens ("Ivy Plus" and top 10 SLACs) have been steadily deemphasizing AP Calc in admissions for applicants who aren't engineering-oriented in the past decade. Admissions officers are increasingly happy with AP Stats instead, or a pass in IB Diploma Standard Level mixed math as long as an applicant is strong subject that line up with their likely intended major/concentration. If you doubt this, do a search. It's true.

Correct.

This is bad advice. If your kid has to take Calculus as a core requirement in college, they should definitely take AP Calculus.

The Cal in college moves fast and overwhelming majority of kids have taken AP calculus and can keep up. Your kid will struggle.

If they don’t have to take any Calculus then it’s not an issue. But we all know that the discussion here is about advance math and the kids who will likely be going into a STEM major.

Why would kids who took calculus in high school retake the same course in college?

They did not get a 4 or 5 on AP exam to get out of it. It’s a core requirement in lots of schools

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

I work in college admissions so I know that the statement above is out of date. In fact, even colleges admitting in the single digits and teens ("Ivy Plus" and top 10 SLACs) have been steadily deemphasizing AP Calc in admissions for applicants who aren't engineering-oriented in the past decade. Admissions officers are increasingly happy with AP Stats instead, or a pass in IB Diploma Standard Level mixed math as long as an applicant is strong subject that line up with their likely intended major/concentration. If you doubt this, do a search. It's true.

Correct.

This is bad advice. If your kid has to take Calculus as a core requirement in college, they should definitely take AP Calculus.

The Cal in college moves fast and overwhelming majority of kids have taken AP calculus and can keep up. Your kid will struggle.

If they don’t have to take any Calculus then it’s not an issue. But we all know that the discussion here is about advance math and the kids who will likely be going into a STEM major.

Why would kids who took calculus in high school retake the same course in college?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

No idea if this is still the case anyway, but at the state flagship where I went to college (20 years ago), they made you take a math placement exam and they'd recommend what class you should enroll in. Most people who had taken AP Calc were still recommended to start with Calc 1. It was just a recommendation, and if you'd taken calc in HS you could try just skipping Calc 1. But I knew people who did that and really struggled, including my roommate who loved math and had declared a math major and then got frustrated by that experience and wound up in a non-math major.

I think it's very hard for a HS student to truly do college-level math while still being a HS student. They are taking too many classes and have too many other commitments to really go deep. It's the same way most HS students can't write a college-level thesis paper, design and execute lab experiments, etc. These things take sustained focus -- longer classes, more study and work outside of class, fewer distractions. It's literally what college is for. HS is meant to largely complete your general studies (college will have some general studies requirements but they will be mostly entry level and most people will take no more than one of these a semester after freshman year). College is for dedicated study in the field where you will work.

It's not that smart HS kids are not capable of college level work -- many are, especially by junior or senior year. It's that their lives, and their education, are not structured in a way to truly facilitate it. I think this is one reason a lot of teens are so stressed these days -- they are being asked to do things that don't really make sense within the confines of their lifestyle, which they didn't even choose for themselves. The obsession with math acceleration is part of that.

+1

Well which one is it? Kids have a ton of time to take dual enrollment or kids are taking so many classes that they don’t have time.

No one is forcing your kid to take advance math. No one.

But if you all don’t see or understand that some kids can and want to and are completely shut out of the opportunity at their school because course offerings are lacking while other schools are offering much more, I don’t know what to say.

The math sucks in DCPS and it will continue to and families will leave the system which will perpetuate the cycle of low expectations, performance and standards.

I think in general DCPS attracts and retains families that are confident enough in their kids’ abilities that avoiding the suburban rat race seems like an acceptable or even positive outcome. OTOH I think these families don’t understand how bad math instruction is. But it is bad everywhere. Just in DCPS there will be no outlet for the kids who can manage on their own, and your kid’s poor math instruction will end with Calc or pre-Calc instead of MVC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

I work in college admissions so I know that the statement above is out of date. In fact, even colleges admitting in the single digits and teens ("Ivy Plus" and top 10 SLACs) have been steadily deemphasizing AP Calc in admissions for applicants who aren't engineering-oriented in the past decade. Admissions officers are increasingly happy with AP Stats instead, or a pass in IB Diploma Standard Level mixed math as long as an applicant is strong subject that line up with their likely intended major/concentration. If you doubt this, do a search. It's true.

Correct.

This is bad advice. If your kid has to take Calculus as a core requirement in college, they should definitely take AP Calculus.

The Cal in college moves fast and overwhelming majority of kids have taken AP calculus and can keep up. Your kid will struggle.

If they don’t have to take any Calculus then it’s not an issue. But we all know that the discussion here is about advance math and the kids who will likely be going into a STEM major.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

I work in college admissions so I know that the statement above is out of date. In fact, even colleges admitting in the single digits and teens ("Ivy Plus" and top 10 SLACs) have been steadily deemphasizing AP Calc in admissions for applicants who aren't engineering-oriented in the past decade. Admissions officers are increasingly happy with AP Stats instead, or a pass in IB Diploma Standard Level mixed math as long as an applicant is strong subject that line up with their likely intended major/concentration. If you doubt this, do a search. It's true.

Correct.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

No idea if this is still the case anyway, but at the state flagship where I went to college (20 years ago), they made you take a math placement exam and they'd recommend what class you should enroll in. Most people who had taken AP Calc were still recommended to start with Calc 1. It was just a recommendation, and if you'd taken calc in HS you could try just skipping Calc 1. But I knew people who did that and really struggled, including my roommate who loved math and had declared a math major and then got frustrated by that experience and wound up in a non-math major.

I think it's very hard for a HS student to truly do college-level math while still being a HS student. They are taking too many classes and have too many other commitments to really go deep. It's the same way most HS students can't write a college-level thesis paper, design and execute lab experiments, etc. These things take sustained focus -- longer classes, more study and work outside of class, fewer distractions. It's literally what college is for. HS is meant to largely complete your general studies (college will have some general studies requirements but they will be mostly entry level and most people will take no more than one of these a semester after freshman year). College is for dedicated study in the field where you will work.

It's not that smart HS kids are not capable of college level work -- many are, especially by junior or senior year. It's that their lives, and their education, are not structured in a way to truly facilitate it. I think this is one reason a lot of teens are so stressed these days -- they are being asked to do things that don't really make sense within the confines of their lifestyle, which they didn't even choose for themselves. The obsession with math acceleration is part of that.

+1

Well which one is it? Kids have a ton of time to take dual enrollment or kids are taking so many classes that they don’t have time.

No one is forcing your kid to take advance math. No one.

But if you all don’t see or understand that some kids can and want to and are completely shut out of the opportunity at their school because course offerings are lacking while other schools are offering much more, I don’t know what to say.

The math sucks in DCPS and it will continue to and families will leave the system which will perpetuate the cycle of low expectations, performance and standards.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

No idea if this is still the case anyway, but at the state flagship where I went to college (20 years ago), they made you take a math placement exam and they'd recommend what class you should enroll in. Most people who had taken AP Calc were still recommended to start with Calc 1. It was just a recommendation, and if you'd taken calc in HS you could try just skipping Calc 1. But I knew people who did that and really struggled, including my roommate who loved math and had declared a math major and then got frustrated by that experience and wound up in a non-math major.

I think it's very hard for a HS student to truly do college-level math while still being a HS student. They are taking too many classes and have too many other commitments to really go deep. It's the same way most HS students can't write a college-level thesis paper, design and execute lab experiments, etc. These things take sustained focus -- longer classes, more study and work outside of class, fewer distractions. It's literally what college is for. HS is meant to largely complete your general studies (college will have some general studies requirements but they will be mostly entry level and most people will take no more than one of these a semester after freshman year). College is for dedicated study in the field where you will work.

It's not that smart HS kids are not capable of college level work -- many are, especially by junior or senior year. It's that their lives, and their education, are not structured in a way to truly facilitate it. I think this is one reason a lot of teens are so stressed these days -- they are being asked to do things that don't really make sense within the confines of their lifestyle, which they didn't even choose for themselves. The obsession with math acceleration is part of that.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

I work in college admissions so I know that the statement above is out of date. In fact, even colleges admitting in the single digits and teens ("Ivy Plus" and top 10 SLACs) have been steadily deemphasizing AP Calc in admissions for applicants who aren't engineering-oriented in the past decade. Admissions officers are increasingly happy with AP Stats instead, or a pass in IB Diploma Standard Level mixed math as long as an applicant is strong subject that line up with their likely intended major/concentration. If you doubt this, do a search. It's true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the obsession on this board with taking Cal by 10th grade. I was always good at math, but I didn't take calculus until I was a senior in high school. And I got into an ivy league school where I graduated with honors. My kids are younger so I'm sure there's plenty to say about DC middle schools and high schools that I don't understand, but I truly don't understand why this is something people harp on here.

Once your kids are older you will understand.

+1. Math 20 years ago is nothing like math today. Cal in 12 th then was advance, not so today.
Same with college admittance. If you are going to any decent school at all for math, engineering, science, etc you only get to Cal by senior year, you are at the bottom. it’s a basic requirement. Other kids will be ahead and taking it easy in college while you will not.

The end.

A good friend teaches physics at a school DCUM loves. He says very many of the kids who have been pushed into acceleration have no idea how to use calculus as a tool to solve problems. They have kids withdraw from physics classes and retake calculus, then do the major requirements a year late. It’s a real problem.

Two things are true here. Calc, and an Ap Calc score, are almost a prerequisite to top college admissions. It’s a good filter.

The other thing is that AP Calc is a pretty impoverished experience of calculus that doesn’t do a good job of preparing you to do real math in college.

No idea if this is still the case anyway, but at the state flagship where I went to college (20 years ago), they made you take a math placement exam and they'd recommend what class you should enroll in. Most people who had taken AP Calc were still recommended to start with Calc 1. It was just a recommendation, and if you'd taken calc in HS you could try just skipping Calc 1. But I knew people who did that and really struggled, including my roommate who loved math and had declared a math major and then got frustrated by that experience and wound up in a non-math major.

I think it's very hard for a HS student to truly do college-level math while still being a HS student. They are taking too many classes and have too many other commitments to really go deep. It's the same way most HS students can't write a college-level thesis paper, design and execute lab experiments, etc. These things take sustained focus -- longer classes, more study and work outside of class, fewer distractions. It's literally what college is for. HS is meant to largely complete your general studies (college will have some general studies requirements but they will be mostly entry level and most people will take no more than one of these a semester after freshman year). College is for dedicated study in the field where you will work.

It's not that smart HS kids are not capable of college level work -- many are, especially by junior or senior year. It's that their lives, and their education, are not structured in a way to truly facilitate it. I think this is one reason a lot of teens are so stressed these days -- they are being asked to do things that don't really make sense within the confines of their lifestyle, which they didn't even choose for themselves. The obsession with math acceleration is part of that.