Anonymous wrote:Neither of these accurately describes how I help my clients. The key is in the word consultant. I do not shepherd or write for students. I would love to start in 9th, but if I get them as 10th graders, that's great! Many come to me in 11th. I advise on curriculum, activities, opportunities, timeline and encourage them to stay kids and enjoy high school while doing their best as students, developing themselves, and pushing the boundaries a little. I work with them to find good fits and connect with schools on all levels to maximize their academic efforts in decisions. I contribute research. I help them to develop their writing through discussion and feedback, not through "editing."
I am a small shop. So far this year, my public school students have been admitted to Ivies & top LACs ED and difficult EAs (USC, UVA OOS, UNC OOS).
It doesn't have to be one or the other as the OP suggests.

Anonymous wrote:Neither of these accurately describes how I help my clients. The key is in the word consultant. I do not shepherd or write for students. I would love to start in 9th, but if I get them as 10th graders, that's great! Many come to me in 11th. I advise on curriculum, activities, opportunities, timeline and encourage them to stay kids and enjoy high school while doing their best as students, developing themselves, and pushing the boundaries a little. I work with them to find good fits and connect with schools on all levels to maximize their academic efforts in decisions. I contribute research. I help them to develop their writing through discussion and feedback, not through "editing."
I am a small shop. So far this year, my public school students have been admitted to Ivies & top LACs ED and difficult EAs (USC, UVA OOS, UNC OOS).
It doesn't have to be one or the other as the OP suggests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly the only counselors who can truly move the needle are the ones who are planning things from at least grade 9 on. If you simply hire someone when your kid is a junior or senior then it's too late.

But the kid also has to be doing exceptionally well in school. I would imagine that most families who have money for this type of counseling are private school kids and it's not easy to do well at many top privates. In our experience at a Big3 school, the unhooked Ivy admits (aside from Cornell) are all from the top of the class. I had one of these kids and they got into an Ivy with their own random assortment of extracurriculars and our haphazard attempt at guiding a narrative in the 11th hour. So no 4-5 years of packaging is needed if the grades are there. And no packaging will help if the grades are not there. So honestly, I don't see the point of it.

Maybe it's more helpful in the public realm where there are large classes and many kids with top grades and so it's important for kids to have very built-out narratives to separate them from their academically identical peers.

To this end, can anyone recommend a counselor who can help with long range planning in 9th or 10th grade. Not looking to invest in a four year package but rather someone who can suggest how to be proactive early on in terms of course selection,
extracurriculars, etc?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re willing to bail for Canada, be aware that there are many similar large public American universities that admit high-stats kids based largely or entirely on stats. My high-stats child finds the whole game really off-putting and therefore only applied to big state schools. Although if your kid is a Canadian citizen the Canadian schools will likely be cheaper, unless they get a merit scholarship at an American school.

OOS at a flagship typically means paying private school prices for a public school education.

Anonymous wrote:Frankly the only counselors who can truly move the needle are the ones who are planning things from at least grade 9 on. If you simply hire someone when your kid is a junior or senior then it's too late.

But the kid also has to be doing exceptionally well in school. I would imagine that most families who have money for this type of counseling are private school kids and it's not easy to do well at many top privates. In our experience at a Big3 school, the unhooked Ivy admits (aside from Cornell) are all from the top of the class. I had one of these kids and they got into an Ivy with their own random assortment of extracurriculars and our haphazard attempt at guiding a narrative in the 11th hour. So no 4-5 years of packaging is needed if the grades are there. And no packaging will help if the grades are not there. So honestly, I don't see the point of it.

Maybe it's more helpful in the public realm where there are large classes and many kids with top grades and so it's important for kids to have very built-out narratives to separate them from their academically identical peers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?

Why is this surprising ? Parents who want their kids to be recruited athletes micromanage every aspect of their training since they’re 7 or 8 years old. Why does it come off as surprising when it’s academically related? The odds of a kid getting into an ivy are lower than the odds of a high school football player getting into the NFL. Yet the high school football player has been training probably since he was 5. Shouldn’t we expect that the ivy kids have been “ training” for just as long?

A high school football player has about a 0.08% chance of being drafted. The Ivy League odds are actually about 8-10 times better than the NFL draft odds. So it’s better to focus on education!!

Lifetime income of a doctor, lawyer, engineer or banker are higher than the average NFL player.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?

Why is this surprising ? Parents who want their kids to be recruited athletes micromanage every aspect of their training since they’re 7 or 8 years old. Why does it come off as surprising when it’s academically related? The odds of a kid getting into an ivy are lower than the odds of a high school football player getting into the NFL. Yet the high school football player has been training probably since he was 5. Shouldn’t we expect that the ivy kids have been “ training” for just as long?

A high school football player has about a 0.08% chance of being drafted. The Ivy League odds are actually about 8-10 times better than the NFL draft odds. So it’s better to focus on education!!

Lifetime income of a doctor, lawyer, engineer or banker are higher than the average NFL player.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

Right. Like Trump has cheated all his life and it’s worked. We all respect him, right?

It’s great that all these highly-educated, wealthy parents are outing themselves as unethical, yet normal people kinda already knew that. We watched your kid growing up, and knew he was nothing special. Yet, he showed up in the local newspaper serving food to the homeless, collecting books for poor kids, and shipping sports equipment to needy kids in Africa. We always knew it was curated sham. He never talked about these things except when he traded emails with the community news reporter. Hard to look at these kids and their parents and not feel disgusted.

The homeless got fed, the poor kids got books and some kids in africa got sports equipment.
That's what their cheater kids did.

What did your genuine and honest kid do?

It’s not that people weren’t helped. It’s that the kid’s actions are performative but reported to the AO as genuine leadership, character and empathy. The ultimate goal here was never to help the needy but to get into an elite college by masquerading as someone who cared about the needy.

Maybe the honest kid didn’t serve a bowl of porridge to someone he’ll never see again, but maybe he was a genuine team member for four years or a good listener to a friend since middle school.

I like genuine people, not performances.

You think they're performative because you are reading their hearts and minds? You know what they think and feel?

Give it a break. On multiple threads, including this one, we have multiple parents saying that they’ve successfully orchestrated their kid’s lives to get into an elite school. In addition, I’ve seen this stuff go down myself. While I may not know what’s in a kid’s mind, I know, in the cases I saw, that the activity ideas were the parents, not the kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

False and I’m a professional college advisor. A pro does not do this now an essay coach working out of her second bedroom with no experience in the field might

There are "secret essay people" that families hire. And yes, they do work (exorbitantly expensive though).

This is absolute bullshit. Pricing like that does not exist for a transient service without a lot of advertising. Explain the mechanism that would produce a secret cadre of essay writers that nobody talks about but can charge exhorbitant amounts of money?

The absolute best "essay people" I know interview the student and help them find the college applicant within themselves, it's almost like therapy. The editing help is done by an english teaching assistant or something. They mostly talk about passive voice and bad grammar.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

Right. Like Trump has cheated all his life and it’s worked. We all respect him, right?

It’s great that all these highly-educated, wealthy parents are outing themselves as unethical, yet normal people kinda already knew that. We watched your kid growing up, and knew he was nothing special. Yet, he showed up in the local newspaper serving food to the homeless, collecting books for poor kids, and shipping sports equipment to needy kids in Africa. We always knew it was curated sham. He never talked about these things except when he traded emails with the community news reporter. Hard to look at these kids and their parents and not feel disgusted.

The homeless got fed, the poor kids got books and some kids in africa got sports equipment.
That's what their cheater kids did.

What did your genuine and honest kid do?

It’s not that people weren’t helped. It’s that the kid’s actions are performative but reported to the AO as genuine leadership, character and empathy. The ultimate goal here was never to help the needy but to get into an elite college by masquerading as someone who cared about the needy.

Maybe the honest kid didn’t serve a bowl of porridge to someone he’ll never see again, but maybe he was a genuine team member for four years or a good listener to a friend since middle school.

I like genuine people, not performances.

You think they're performative because you are reading their hearts and minds? You know what they think and feel?

Sorry, that was too snarky. Just pissed off about how people perceive passion and genuine interest.

When a white girl does something, she is passionate and dedicated.

When an indian girl does something, it's phony and she's only doing it to get into a better college.

Passion and authenticity is color coded.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

Right. Like Trump has cheated all his life and it’s worked. We all respect him, right?

It’s great that all these highly-educated, wealthy parents are outing themselves as unethical, yet normal people kinda already knew that. We watched your kid growing up, and knew he was nothing special. Yet, he showed up in the local newspaper serving food to the homeless, collecting books for poor kids, and shipping sports equipment to needy kids in Africa. We always knew it was curated sham. He never talked about these things except when he traded emails with the community news reporter. Hard to look at these kids and their parents and not feel disgusted.

The homeless got fed, the poor kids got books and some kids in africa got sports equipment.
That's what their cheater kids did.

What did your genuine and honest kid do?

It’s not that people weren’t helped. It’s that the kid’s actions are performative but reported to the AO as genuine leadership, character and empathy. The ultimate goal here was never to help the needy but to get into an elite college by masquerading as someone who cared about the needy.

Maybe the honest kid didn’t serve a bowl of porridge to someone he’ll never see again, but maybe he was a genuine team member for four years or a good listener to a friend since middle school.

I like genuine people, not performances.

You think they're performative because you are reading their hearts and minds? You know what they think and feel?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

Right. Like Trump has cheated all his life and it’s worked. We all respect him, right?

It’s great that all these highly-educated, wealthy parents are outing themselves as unethical, yet normal people kinda already knew that. We watched your kid growing up, and knew he was nothing special. Yet, he showed up in the local newspaper serving food to the homeless, collecting books for poor kids, and shipping sports equipment to needy kids in Africa. We always knew it was curated sham. He never talked about these things except when he traded emails with the community news reporter. Hard to look at these kids and their parents and not feel disgusted.

The homeless got fed, the poor kids got books and some kids in africa got sports equipment.
That's what their cheater kids did.

What did your genuine and honest kid do?

It’s not that people weren’t helped. It’s that the kid’s actions are performative but reported to the AO as genuine leadership, character and empathy. The ultimate goal here was never to help the needy but to get into an elite college by masquerading as someone who cared about the needy.

Maybe the honest kid didn’t serve a bowl of porridge to someone he’ll never see again, but maybe he was a genuine team member for four years or a good listener to a friend since middle school.

I like genuine people, not performances.

You think they're performative because you are reading their hearts and minds? You know what they think and feel?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private counselor will not make or break your kid's acceptance. They just provide a little assistance along the way, say with reviewing essays or moral support.

The 1st paragraph you wrote, OP, is over the top and that is not what most counselor are doing or what most kids have. That would be incredibly expensive and then that money would benefit the kid more than the college degree. Plus it sounds so boring and robotic and what is the point of life really.

A little essay editing help or timeline support helps the anxiety level of the kid. Does it help them get in, not necessarily.

You do what is best for your kid and your family. You are not missing out by not hiring a counselor especially one who lives your kid's life for them. Hiring that first type of counselor would make me feel like I totally failed at parenting - but maybe that's the point, maybe those parents never wanted to parent their own child so they are outsourcing.

Most of the good essay people we know are writing the essays based on drafts from the kids. Sad, but yes it works.

Right. Like Trump has cheated all his life and it’s worked. We all respect him, right?

It’s great that all these highly-educated, wealthy parents are outing themselves as unethical, yet normal people kinda already knew that. We watched your kid growing up, and knew he was nothing special. Yet, he showed up in the local newspaper serving food to the homeless, collecting books for poor kids, and shipping sports equipment to needy kids in Africa. We always knew it was curated sham. He never talked about these things except when he traded emails with the community news reporter. Hard to look at these kids and their parents and not feel disgusted.

The homeless got fed, the poor kids got books and some kids in africa got sports equipment.
That's what their cheater kids did.

What did your genuine and honest kid do?

It’s not that people weren’t helped. It’s that the kid’s actions are performative but reported to the AO as genuine leadership, character and empathy. The ultimate goal here was never to help the needy but to get into an elite college by masquerading as someone who cared about the needy.

Maybe the honest kid didn’t serve a bowl of porridge to someone he’ll never see again, but maybe he was a genuine team member for four years or a good listener to a friend since middle school.

I like genuine people, not performances.