Anonymous
11/17/2025 19:11
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a retired US academic physician who worked at a top medical school, I have a few reflections:
At UVa 50 years ago, 500 future premeds huddled into the chemistry lecture hall to hear about the process of becoming a doctor. Over the next four years we studied hard and played hard. But many were lost along the way. At the time of my graduation in 1979, there were only about 50 (10%) students who were directly accepted into an allopathic medical school, mostly UVa or MCV. At that time the national acceptance rate was about 45%. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK217679/table/ttt00015/?report=objectonly.
At UVa, I don't know how many reapplied and subsequently accepted. The core requirement classes in biology, chemistry, physics, math, etc., were very challenging. It was very difficult to get an A, much less a B. Grade inflation, at least at UVa, was nonexistent, as it is today. Many had some type of clinical exposure or worked in labs, but it was difficult to find opportunities. Very few had research publications. Gap years were unheard off. For those who wern't directly accepted, some took additional courses or pursued a master's before reapplying. In the late 1970s there were only 3 offshore Caribbean medical schools. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_medical_school I don't know how many chose a DO route. Finally, relative to the present, with loans the financial burden of medical school was feasible for a middle class family.
Just a few comments on the current international medical graduate (IMG) situation. A few years ago I worked with foreign-trained medical students and doctors trying to get into a US residency. For those who had excellent grades, scores and letters, pleasant personalities, and spoke English, they were successful in matching into a residency. In the past couple of years, however, the IMG situation has dramatically changed due to politics. With the stringent VISA requirements, particularly with respect to the H1B, many residency programs are not accepting IMG applicants. This could make the physician shortage worse, particularly in primary care. Just take a look at the posts on this Reddit site for FMGs: https://www.reddit.com/r/IMGreddit/.
2025 Match Data
93.5% of U.S. MD seniors matched
92.6% of U.S. DO seniors matched
67.8% of U.S. citizen international medical graduates (IMGs) matched
58% of non-U.S. citizen IMGs matched,a
https://www.nrmp.org/about/news/2025/05/nrmp-releases-2025-main-residency-match-results-and-data-report-providing-in-depth-insight-into-the-largest-residency-match-in-history/#:~:text=Among%20all%20active%20U.S.%20DO,the%20Match%20and%20SOAP%20overall.
Your "reflections" on medical school admittance are about a half a century old. Not remotely applicable here.
That poster is someone who would know vastly, vastly more about what med schools are looking for in incoming students to than overbearing mom helicoptering their adult children’s professional school paths for bragging rights.
Anonymous
11/17/2025 19:04
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:As a retired US academic physician who worked at a top medical school, I have a few reflections:
At UVa 50 years ago, 500 future premeds huddled into the chemistry lecture hall to hear about the process of becoming a doctor. Over the next four years we studied hard and played hard. But many were lost along the way. At the time of my graduation in 1979, there were only about 50 (10%) students who were directly accepted into an allopathic medical school, mostly UVa or MCV. At that time the national acceptance rate was about 45%. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK217679/table/ttt00015/?report=objectonly.
At UVa, I don't know how many reapplied and subsequently accepted. The core requirement classes in biology, chemistry, physics, math, etc., were very challenging. It was very difficult to get an A, much less a B. Grade inflation, at least at UVa, was nonexistent, as it is today. Many had some type of clinical exposure or worked in labs, but it was difficult to find opportunities. Very few had research publications. Gap years were unheard off. For those who wern't directly accepted, some took additional courses or pursued a master's before reapplying. In the late 1970s there were only 3 offshore Caribbean medical schools. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_medical_school I don't know how many chose a DO route. Finally, relative to the present, with loans the financial burden of medical school was feasible for a middle class family.
Just a few comments on the current international medical graduate (IMG) situation. A few years ago I worked with foreign-trained medical students and doctors trying to get into a US residency. For those who had excellent grades, scores and letters, pleasant personalities, and spoke English, they were successful in matching into a residency. In the past couple of years, however, the IMG situation has dramatically changed due to politics. With the stringent VISA requirements, particularly with respect to the H1B, many residency programs are not accepting IMG applicants. This could make the physician shortage worse, particularly in primary care. Just take a look at the posts on this Reddit site for FMGs: https://www.reddit.com/r/IMGreddit/.
2025 Match Data
93.5% of U.S. MD seniors matched
92.6% of U.S. DO seniors matched
67.8% of U.S. citizen international medical graduates (IMGs) matched
58% of non-U.S. citizen IMGs matched,a
https://www.nrmp.org/about/news/2025/05/nrmp-releases-2025-main-residency-match-results-and-data-report-providing-in-depth-insight-into-the-largest-residency-match-in-history/#:~:text=Among%20all%20active%20U.S.%20DO,the%20Match%20and%20SOAP%20overall.
Your "reflections" on medical school admittance are about a half a century old. Not remotely applicable here.
Anonymous
11/17/2025 18:52
Subject: Requirements for medical school
As a retired US academic physician who worked at a top medical school, I have a few reflections:
At UVa 50 years ago, 500 future premeds huddled into the chemistry lecture hall to hear about the process of becoming a doctor. Over the next four years we studied hard and played hard. But many were lost along the way. At the time of my graduation in 1979, there were only about 50 (10%) students who were directly accepted into an allopathic medical school, mostly UVa or MCV. At that time the national acceptance rate was about 45%. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK217679/table/ttt00015/?report=objectonly.
At UVa, I don't know how many reapplied and subsequently accepted. The core requirement classes in biology, chemistry, physics, math, etc., were very challenging. It was very difficult to get an A, much less a B. Grade inflation, at least at UVa, was nonexistent, as it is today. Many had some type of clinical exposure or worked in labs, but it was difficult to find opportunities. Very few had research publications. Gap years were unheard off. For those who wern't directly accepted, some took additional courses or pursued a master's before reapplying. In the late 1970s there were only 3 offshore Caribbean medical schools. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_medical_school I don't know how many chose a DO route. Finally, relative to the present, with loans the financial burden of medical school was feasible for a middle class family.
Just a few comments on the current international medical graduate (IMG) situation. A few years ago I worked with foreign-trained medical students and doctors trying to get into a US residency. For those who had excellent grades, scores and letters, pleasant personalities, and spoke English, they were successful in matching into a residency. In the past couple of years, however, the IMG situation has dramatically changed due to politics. With the stringent VISA requirements, particularly with respect to the H1B, many residency programs are not accepting IMG applicants. This could make the physician shortage worse, particularly in primary care. Just take a look at the posts on this Reddit site for FMGs: https://www.reddit.com/r/IMGreddit/.
2025 Match Data
93.5% of U.S. MD seniors matched
92.6% of U.S. DO seniors matched
67.8% of U.S. citizen international medical graduates (IMGs) matched
58% of non-U.S. citizen IMGs matched,a
https://www.nrmp.org/about/news/2025/05/nrmp-releases-2025-main-residency-match-results-and-data-report-providing-in-depth-insight-into-the-largest-residency-match-in-history/#:~:text=Among%20all%20active%20U.S.%20DO,the%20Match%20and%20SOAP%20overall.
At UVa 50 years ago, 500 future premeds huddled into the chemistry lecture hall to hear about the process of becoming a doctor. Over the next four years we studied hard and played hard. But many were lost along the way. At the time of my graduation in 1979, there were only about 50 (10%) students who were directly accepted into an allopathic medical school, mostly UVa or MCV. At that time the national acceptance rate was about 45%. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK217679/table/ttt00015/?report=objectonly.
At UVa, I don't know how many reapplied and subsequently accepted. The core requirement classes in biology, chemistry, physics, math, etc., were very challenging. It was very difficult to get an A, much less a B. Grade inflation, at least at UVa, was nonexistent, as it is today. Many had some type of clinical exposure or worked in labs, but it was difficult to find opportunities. Very few had research publications. Gap years were unheard off. For those who wern't directly accepted, some took additional courses or pursued a master's before reapplying. In the late 1970s there were only 3 offshore Caribbean medical schools. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_medical_school I don't know how many chose a DO route. Finally, relative to the present, with loans the financial burden of medical school was feasible for a middle class family.
Just a few comments on the current international medical graduate (IMG) situation. A few years ago I worked with foreign-trained medical students and doctors trying to get into a US residency. For those who had excellent grades, scores and letters, pleasant personalities, and spoke English, they were successful in matching into a residency. In the past couple of years, however, the IMG situation has dramatically changed due to politics. With the stringent VISA requirements, particularly with respect to the H1B, many residency programs are not accepting IMG applicants. This could make the physician shortage worse, particularly in primary care. Just take a look at the posts on this Reddit site for FMGs: https://www.reddit.com/r/IMGreddit/.
2025 Match Data
93.5% of U.S. MD seniors matched
92.6% of U.S. DO seniors matched
67.8% of U.S. citizen international medical graduates (IMGs) matched
58% of non-U.S. citizen IMGs matched,a
https://www.nrmp.org/about/news/2025/05/nrmp-releases-2025-main-residency-match-results-and-data-report-providing-in-depth-insight-into-the-largest-residency-match-in-history/#:~:text=Among%20all%20active%20U.S.%20DO,the%20Match%20and%20SOAP%20overall.
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:47
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is some of these “requirements” are a joke and don’t add value. Just made up stuff like we do to get into college. It shouldn’t be a requirement for medical school.
Shadowing? What exactly did the kid do? Mission trips? What did the kid actually learn. Sure they sound good but we know how these things really go down.
Shadowing: i have shadows. Some of them drop premed after shadowing. They hate blood and bodily functions. Best to establish that.
Mission trips in the context of med school apps are nothing like high school mission trips of the 00s. They encompass traveling with doctors (docs without borders or similar) learning and doing real 3rd world medical skills. These students come in more prepared than those who haven't. A kid who has done it is highly unlikely to be aiming for medicine for the $ or any other false reason.
Research, any science: evidence based medicine is the core of practice. Understanding how research is done is extremely important especially for anyone who wants to attend one of the T100 or so research-based MD schools.
Volunteering: domestic violence , food insecurity/homeless, nursing homes, addiction clinics: all part of the raw humanity of real medicine. You have to have evidence you can handle humans in their most desperate and unpleasant states.
Agree shadowing can give some better idea if this is what they really want to do...but do you really think it takes hundreds of shadowing hours to determine that?
No med school requires hundreds of hours of shadowing. Most have no formal requirement, the ones that do are usually like 30-40 hours. so maybe 4 full days or 8 half days. It is really not that big of a deal.
https://jackwestin.com/resources/blog/how-many-shadowing-hours-are-needed-for-medical-school
Most of EC activities are not “required” but they are, nevertheless, “soft” required.
Literally no school soft requires hundreds of hours of shadowing.
+1000
Not even close.
Exactly! Because we have all had undergrad shadows and know exactly how valuable that experience is likely to be.
It’s not that it doesn’t have value, it’s that the benefit of doing 150 vs 25 or 50 is essentially nil. Now if the kid was working as an emt or a patient care tech that’s a different story (and they’d be getting paid!)
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:41
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is some of these “requirements” are a joke and don’t add value. Just made up stuff like we do to get into college. It shouldn’t be a requirement for medical school.
Shadowing? What exactly did the kid do? Mission trips? What did the kid actually learn. Sure they sound good but we know how these things really go down.
Shadowing: i have shadows. Some of them drop premed after shadowing. They hate blood and bodily functions. Best to establish that.
Mission trips in the context of med school apps are nothing like high school mission trips of the 00s. They encompass traveling with doctors (docs without borders or similar) learning and doing real 3rd world medical skills. These students come in more prepared than those who haven't. A kid who has done it is highly unlikely to be aiming for medicine for the $ or any other false reason.
Research, any science: evidence based medicine is the core of practice. Understanding how research is done is extremely important especially for anyone who wants to attend one of the T100 or so research-based MD schools.
Volunteering: domestic violence , food insecurity/homeless, nursing homes, addiction clinics: all part of the raw humanity of real medicine. You have to have evidence you can handle humans in their most desperate and unpleasant states.
Agree shadowing can give some better idea if this is what they really want to do...but do you really think it takes hundreds of shadowing hours to determine that?
No med school requires hundreds of hours of shadowing. Most have no formal requirement, the ones that do are usually like 30-40 hours. so maybe 4 full days or 8 half days. It is really not that big of a deal.
https://jackwestin.com/resources/blog/how-many-shadowing-hours-are-needed-for-medical-school
Most of EC activities are not “required” but they are, nevertheless, “soft” required.
Literally no school soft requires hundreds of hours of shadowing.
This is such a good example of the nonsense that runs rampant on DCUM. People spreading ridiculous misinformation and others running with it. People are on here arguing how absurd it is that students have to do "hundreds of hours of shadowing" to get into med school, when literally no school is requiring or even expecting to see applicants with "hundreds of hours of shadowing."
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:38
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is some of these “requirements” are a joke and don’t add value. Just made up stuff like we do to get into college. It shouldn’t be a requirement for medical school.
Shadowing? What exactly did the kid do? Mission trips? What did the kid actually learn. Sure they sound good but we know how these things really go down.
Shadowing: i have shadows. Some of them drop premed after shadowing. They hate blood and bodily functions. Best to establish that.
Mission trips in the context of med school apps are nothing like high school mission trips of the 00s. They encompass traveling with doctors (docs without borders or similar) learning and doing real 3rd world medical skills. These students come in more prepared than those who haven't. A kid who has done it is highly unlikely to be aiming for medicine for the $ or any other false reason.
Research, any science: evidence based medicine is the core of practice. Understanding how research is done is extremely important especially for anyone who wants to attend one of the T100 or so research-based MD schools.
Volunteering: domestic violence , food insecurity/homeless, nursing homes, addiction clinics: all part of the raw humanity of real medicine. You have to have evidence you can handle humans in their most desperate and unpleasant states.
Agree shadowing can give some better idea if this is what they really want to do...but do you really think it takes hundreds of shadowing hours to determine that?
No med school requires hundreds of hours of shadowing. Most have no formal requirement, the ones that do are usually like 30-40 hours. so maybe 4 full days or 8 half days. It is really not that big of a deal.
https://jackwestin.com/resources/blog/how-many-shadowing-hours-are-needed-for-medical-school
Most of EC activities are not “required” but they are, nevertheless, “soft” required.
Literally no school soft requires hundreds of hours of shadowing.
+1000
Not even close.
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:37
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is some of these “requirements” are a joke and don’t add value. Just made up stuff like we do to get into college. It shouldn’t be a requirement for medical school.
Shadowing? What exactly did the kid do? Mission trips? What did the kid actually learn. Sure they sound good but we know how these things really go down.
Shadowing: i have shadows. Some of them drop premed after shadowing. They hate blood and bodily functions. Best to establish that.
Mission trips in the context of med school apps are nothing like high school mission trips of the 00s. They encompass traveling with doctors (docs without borders or similar) learning and doing real 3rd world medical skills. These students come in more prepared than those who haven't. A kid who has done it is highly unlikely to be aiming for medicine for the $ or any other false reason.
Research, any science: evidence based medicine is the core of practice. Understanding how research is done is extremely important especially for anyone who wants to attend one of the T100 or so research-based MD schools.
Volunteering: domestic violence , food insecurity/homeless, nursing homes, addiction clinics: all part of the raw humanity of real medicine. You have to have evidence you can handle humans in their most desperate and unpleasant states.
Agree shadowing can give some better idea if this is what they really want to do...but do you really think it takes hundreds of shadowing hours to determine that?
No med school requires hundreds of hours of shadowing. Most have no formal requirement, the ones that do are usually like 30-40 hours. so maybe 4 full days or 8 half days. It is really not that big of a deal.
https://jackwestin.com/resources/blog/how-many-shadowing-hours-are-needed-for-medical-school
Most of EC activities are not “required” but they are, nevertheless, “soft” required.
Literally no school soft requires hundreds of hours of shadowing.
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:34
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is some of these “requirements” are a joke and don’t add value. Just made up stuff like we do to get into college. It shouldn’t be a requirement for medical school.
Shadowing? What exactly did the kid do? Mission trips? What did the kid actually learn. Sure they sound good but we know how these things really go down.
Shadowing: i have shadows. Some of them drop premed after shadowing. They hate blood and bodily functions. Best to establish that.
Mission trips in the context of med school apps are nothing like high school mission trips of the 00s. They encompass traveling with doctors (docs without borders or similar) learning and doing real 3rd world medical skills. These students come in more prepared than those who haven't. A kid who has done it is highly unlikely to be aiming for medicine for the $ or any other false reason.
Research, any science: evidence based medicine is the core of practice. Understanding how research is done is extremely important especially for anyone who wants to attend one of the T100 or so research-based MD schools.
Volunteering: domestic violence , food insecurity/homeless, nursing homes, addiction clinics: all part of the raw humanity of real medicine. You have to have evidence you can handle humans in their most desperate and unpleasant states.
Agree shadowing can give some better idea if this is what they really want to do...but do you really think it takes hundreds of shadowing hours to determine that?
No med school requires hundreds of hours of shadowing. Most have no formal requirement, the ones that do are usually like 30-40 hours. so maybe 4 full days or 8 half days. It is really not that big of a deal.
https://jackwestin.com/resources/blog/how-many-shadowing-hours-are-needed-for-medical-school
Most of EC activities are not “required” but they are, nevertheless, “soft” required.
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:30
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Parents, you could learn a lot by reading the forums on the website, student doctor network. Covers medical professional fields beside the MD
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:28
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is some of these “requirements” are a joke and don’t add value. Just made up stuff like we do to get into college. It shouldn’t be a requirement for medical school.
Shadowing? What exactly did the kid do? Mission trips? What did the kid actually learn. Sure they sound good but we know how these things really go down.
Shadowing: i have shadows. Some of them drop premed after shadowing. They hate blood and bodily functions. Best to establish that.
Mission trips in the context of med school apps are nothing like high school mission trips of the 00s. They encompass traveling with doctors (docs without borders or similar) learning and doing real 3rd world medical skills. These students come in more prepared than those who haven't. A kid who has done it is highly unlikely to be aiming for medicine for the $ or any other false reason.
Research, any science: evidence based medicine is the core of practice. Understanding how research is done is extremely important especially for anyone who wants to attend one of the T100 or so research-based MD schools.
Volunteering: domestic violence , food insecurity/homeless, nursing homes, addiction clinics: all part of the raw humanity of real medicine. You have to have evidence you can handle humans in their most desperate and unpleasant states.
Agree shadowing can give some better idea if this is what they really want to do...but do you really think it takes hundreds of shadowing hours to determine that?
No med school requires hundreds of hours of shadowing. Most have no formal requirement, the ones that do are usually like 30-40 hours. so maybe 4 full days or 8 half days. It is really not that big of a deal.
https://jackwestin.com/resources/blog/how-many-shadowing-hours-are-needed-for-medical-school
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:25
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is some of these “requirements” are a joke and don’t add value. Just made up stuff like we do to get into college. It shouldn’t be a requirement for medical school.
Shadowing? What exactly did the kid do? Mission trips? What did the kid actually learn. Sure they sound good but we know how these things really go down.
Shadowing: i have shadows. Some of them drop premed after shadowing. They hate blood and bodily functions. Best to establish that.
Mission trips in the context of med school apps are nothing like high school mission trips of the 00s. They encompass traveling with doctors (docs without borders or similar) learning and doing real 3rd world medical skills. These students come in more prepared than those who haven't. A kid who has done it is highly unlikely to be aiming for medicine for the $ or any other false reason.
Research, any science: evidence based medicine is the core of practice. Understanding how research is done is extremely important especially for anyone who wants to attend one of the T100 or so research-based MD schools.
Volunteering: domestic violence , food insecurity/homeless, nursing homes, addiction clinics: all part of the raw humanity of real medicine. You have to have evidence you can handle humans in their most desperate and unpleasant states.
Agree shadowing can give some better idea if this is what they really want to do...but do you really think it takes hundreds of shadowing hours to determine that?
They don't need to do "hundreds of shadowing hours." Most med schools recommend somewhere between 40 (which is of course just one week) to 100 (which is just 2 1/2 weeks). A very reasonable amount of time to look at whether or not this is something you want to be investing in and doing for the rest of your life. And yes, you certainly need at least a week. I would recommend a week with at least two different doctors. This isn't mindless "busy work." Not at all.
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:20
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is some of these “requirements” are a joke and don’t add value. Just made up stuff like we do to get into college. It shouldn’t be a requirement for medical school.
Shadowing? What exactly did the kid do? Mission trips? What did the kid actually learn. Sure they sound good but we know how these things really go down.
Learn what the day-to-day of being a doctor actually looks like?
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:18
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:This is not true. There are 6000 more residency spots than US MD/DO grads per year.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should have 3 years of heavily focused undergrad followed by a year of a related medical experience (paid internship) and then med school.
And they need to let more kids into med school. We need more American-educated doctors.
Sigh. This was addressed above. It's not as simple as simply admitting more students. Could you pack more into the lecture halls? Sure (especially now that lots of students don't go to lecture, it's recorded and many watch it ... or plan to anyway ... later). But there simply are not enough rotation sites or residency sites.
And American grads do not want those spots. You realize that not all programs/residencies are the same, right? That not all are created equal? And that rotation sites are not residency spots? I had an M4 complaining bitterly to me just last week about lack of rotation spots.
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:14
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:What are these "easier ways to make money"?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can’t decide if I should discourage or encourage medical school. I want to support their (hard earned) accomplishments but don’t want to lead them astray.
It's a rough job nowadays. Insurance companies (led by Medicare) dictate way too much with regard to patient care and the amount of time doctors have with patients is shrinking as we speak. Private equity is making it worse. Much worse. If you want to go to med school because you see it as a respectable (or impressive?) job with high pay, you might want to skip it -- it probably won't be worth it for you and there are easier ways to make money. If you are truly fascinated by the human body and how it works and can't see yourself happy doing anything but treating patients, it might be a good fit even with all the hassle.
Business. Accounting. Just about anything if you are really good at it -- a friend who went to cosmetology school when we were in high school now has 2 salons and a med spa and makes more than your average doctor.
Anonymous
11/17/2025 16:11
Subject: Requirements for medical school
Anonymous wrote:Why do so many doctors seem terribly ineffective, then, if we are selecting for the cream of the crop?!
The last cream my derm recommended did nothing, last physical didn’t even involve taking clothes off (don’t they need to see if something looks off?), injection of a steroid cream for some little bump that was bothering me did nothing —- yet I was charged a lot for all of these visits. No accountability! No monitoring of patient care! Certainly no use of advanced math or organic chem! And yes, I only go to US-trained doctors from top schools. Many other professions have a LOT more accountability than this. I get that the human body is complicated, but I’m not buying it that physicians need all of these weed-outs to make a treatment recommendation (which may or may not work), bill the patient, rinse and repeat.
Because the insurance companies only reimburse them for like 8 mins per patient.