WSJ just had an article about this - 3.83 median GPA for graduating class of 2025. An intro psychology professor said that his students are scoring 10% lower on average on his multiple choice exams compared to 10 years ago. But he did say he wasn't sure if that was because more kids were taking an intro neuroscience class instead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Social engineering leads to mediocrity at best and when you throw in a bunch of snowflakes you wind up with what you have now a clown show.

The student body today is a reflection of their recent past president Claudine Gay.

I hope that they can turn it around but Garber has a tough task ahead.

Claudine gay was an officer for 6 months and was not dean of admissions, so…no.

She was dean of Social Sciences at Harvard from 2015 to 2018, and dean of the Harvard Faculty of Arts and Sciences from 2018 to 2023. So in positions of influence for close to a decade before her stint as president. Social engineering is pervasive and has impacted Harvard at all levels for quite some time. The results are now coming to light.

So she was never anywhere near admissions processes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard never had MA5 remedial math until recently. Why? Because they discovered that many recent admits lack the foundational math skills.

And the argument is not about whether or not high schools today as a whole prepare kids better or worse than in the 80s.

The issue is Harvard is admitted more and more academically underqualified students than ever.

MA 5 is calc 1. Not remedial at most schools.

MA5 is not remedial contrary to the blithering of some on this forum. Same material with additional instruction hours for those who need a bit more attention.

According to the Harvard Maroon, it was "a new introductory course aimed at rectifying a lack of foundational algebra skills among students". So yes, I'd say remedial. And meeting 5 days a week, that's a lot more attention, not a bit more.

Math 1, which has existed for 40+ years, covers about the same material. This Ma class meets more often, so they get more contact with the profs.

Why are we still discussing this? The course isn’t offered anymore. This was a Covid/no SAT accommodation.

It's not being discontinued. MA5 is still offered this Fall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Social engineering leads to mediocrity at best and when you throw in a bunch of snowflakes you wind up with what you have now a clown show.

The student body today is a reflection of their recent past president Claudine Gay.

I hope that they can turn it around but Garber has a tough task ahead.

Claudine gay was an officer for 6 months and was not dean of admissions, so…no.

She was dean of Social Sciences at Harvard from 2015 to 2018, and dean of the Harvard Faculty of Arts and Sciences from 2018 to 2023. So in positions of influence for close to a decade before her stint as president. Social engineering is pervasive and has impacted Harvard at all levels for quite some time. The results are now coming to light.

I've been teaching undergraduates for over two decades. Students' critical thinking and analytical skills have decreased markedly, as has their ability to follow simple instructions. The difficulty of the SAT has also diminished even as the percentage of As has increased exponentially. The result is that today's students earn As for work that lacks the rigor and quality of that completed by students thirty years ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard never had MA5 remedial math until recently. Why? Because they discovered that many recent admits lack the foundational math skills.

And the argument is not about whether or not high schools today as a whole prepare kids better or worse than in the 80s.

The issue is Harvard is admitted more and more academically underqualified students than ever.

MA 5 is calc 1. Not remedial at most schools.

MA5 is not remedial contrary to the blithering of some on this forum. Same material with additional instruction hours for those who need a bit more attention.

According to the Harvard Maroon, it was "a new introductory course aimed at rectifying a lack of foundational algebra skills among students". So yes, I'd say remedial. And meeting 5 days a week, that's a lot more attention, not a bit more.

Math 1, which has existed for 40+ years, covers about the same material. This Ma class meets more often, so they get more contact with the profs.

Why are we still discussing this? The course isn’t offered anymore. This was a Covid/no SAT accommodation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard never had MA5 remedial math until recently. Why? Because they discovered that many recent admits lack the foundational math skills.

And the argument is not about whether or not high schools today as a whole prepare kids better or worse than in the 80s.

The issue is Harvard is admitted more and more academically underqualified students than ever.

MA 5 is calc 1. Not remedial at most schools.

MA5 is not remedial contrary to the blithering of some on this forum. Same material with additional instruction hours for those who need a bit more attention.

According to the Harvard Maroon, it was "a new introductory course aimed at rectifying a lack of foundational algebra skills among students". So yes, I'd say remedial. And meeting 5 days a week, that's a lot more attention, not a bit more.

Math 1, which has existed for 40+ years, covers about the same material. This Ma class meets more often, so they get more contact with the profs.

Math Ma is half the pace of normal Calc 1a. So essentially take two semesters to finish what would normally be a normal 1 semester class. So equivalent to half of a full year Calc BC (which would be Calc 1a and 1b). In the mid-late 1990s when I was there, I’m pretty sure the lowest level math course was Math 1a. So even just having a Math Ma option is slowing things down.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard never had MA5 remedial math until recently. Why? Because they discovered that many recent admits lack the foundational math skills.

And the argument is not about whether or not high schools today as a whole prepare kids better or worse than in the 80s.

The issue is Harvard is admitted more and more academically underqualified students than ever.

MA 5 is calc 1. Not remedial at most schools.

MA5 is not remedial contrary to the blithering of some on this forum. Same material with additional instruction hours for those who need a bit more attention.

According to the Harvard Maroon, it was "a new introductory course aimed at rectifying a lack of foundational algebra skills among students". So yes, I'd say remedial. And meeting 5 days a week, that's a lot more attention, not a bit more.

It’s the same class as Ma, it just meets more often…