Don't go to colleges full of cheaters.

Anonymous wrote:Once again, where do most of these so-called “elite” college graduates actually end up?
It raises serious questions. Are we truly more innovative? Has society meaningfully improved? After all these years of holistic admissions, what have we really gained? Why do we end up needing h1b engineers, researchers and doctors?

Have your kids skip college if you think that's the best path for them. No one is stopping you from teaching them not to go to college and you think it's a waste of time.

Once again, where do most of these so-called “elite” college graduates actually end up?
It raises serious questions. Are we truly more innovative? Has society meaningfully improved? After all these years of holistic admissions, what have we really gained? Why do we end up needing h1b engineers, researchers and doctors?

One thing I hope AOs can see through is research involving AI/machine learning. It is so so easy for adult researchers to publish papers on applying AI to their domain. Cancer detection? Feed the AI algorithm with thousands of pictures containing tumors, followed by thousands of different pictures containing no tumors. Then, test the algorithm on hundreds of brand new pictures and show that the accuracy is 85% (or whatever high number). Voila, that's a paper! No understanding is needed. Repeating this on problems from all kinds of other domains leads to a bunch of "scientific" papers being churned out. This is what's happening now in many academic fields. The fact that essentially no understanding is needed also means it's suitable for high schoolers (or anyone for that matter) to do "research" and publish "papers." Hope AOs are able to see through this, but I doubt it.

Anonymous wrote:NP. The science fair kids always have mentors. Usually they are paid and do most of the work while explaining to the kids what’s going on. I learned this when someone my DD looked up to placed in a science fair.

Now I know another kid who placed in last year’s state science fair who did not have a mentor. Or so he says. Dad is in tech. Son is really not that intellectual and cannot tell how why he started the project or what he did. I suspect dad (works at Microsoft) did it.

People that work at Microsoft are allowed to have kids and they're allowed to teach their kids about data and data collection and how to clean up data and how to manipulate data and how to analyze data. Presumably someone taught the person working at Microsoft those skills and they are allowed to teach them to someone else.

Pretty sure Venus Williams is allowed to teach her kid how to play tennis and Taylor Swift is allowed to teach her kid how to compose a song and Stephen King is allowed to teach his kid how to write a story.

Anonymous wrote:I Googled to see what a high school classmate was up to. Bright guy but known to cheat in high school.

His kids were winning science prizes on topics related to parents' PhDs and using lab space and equipment belonging to a teammate's parent's company. Where my sister also works.

Among cited accomplishments was an alleged patentable process one of the kids invented that doesn't seem to have become productionized.

One kid became a Coca-Cola scholar. Both ended up at Stanford for part of their education. One dropped out to do a startup that sounds suspiciously like an already existing business.

This family's doings are not Theranos level of suspicious but might get there if they work hard. Lol.

By the way, the Theranos lady's dad worked at Enron.

This. And as long as we (society) keep rewarding win at all costs (including integrity) then the incentive for this is high. Some of us still have morals and teach our kids those. I’m successful and have integrity- my kids will be - not Elon Musk successful- but that guy is really f-ed up. Who wants that life?!

Anonymous wrote:NP. The science fair kids always have mentors. Usually they are paid and do most of the work while explaining to the kids what’s going on. I learned this when someone my DD looked up to placed in a science fair.

Now I know another kid who placed in last year’s state science fair who did not have a mentor. Or so he says. Dad is in tech. Son is really not that intellectual and cannot tell how why he started the project or what he did. I suspect dad (works at Microsoft) did it.

And I know plenty of kids who had mentors that did not do the projects for them. The anecdotal stories on here are anecdotal stories. For every kid that has their mom do their science project, there's plenty more that do it themselves.

NP. The science fair kids always have mentors. Usually they are paid and do most of the work while explaining to the kids what’s going on. I learned this when someone my DD looked up to placed in a science fair.

Now I know another kid who placed in last year’s state science fair who did not have a mentor. Or so he says. Dad is in tech. Son is really not that intellectual and cannot tell how why he started the project or what he did. I suspect dad (works at Microsoft) did it.

Anonymous wrote:Comparing science research to athletics or music is misleading. Research can be outsourced or fabricated—true talent in sports and music can't.

And pretending to be an athlete can also be gamed as we all saw. yes, some people cheat and lie about science about math about sports about lots of things. but most people don't so you don't have to throw the whole exercise under the bus.

What a bunch of negativity and complaining about something that is basically a positive like teaching people about science and science research. That is a positive not a negative.[twitter]

Fake it till you make it culture.

When you make it, you are the hero, the genius, the winner. I think ivies secretly look for this type of persona. Little Machiavelli. Little Holmes.

My uncle is an engineering professor at Cal Tech and he has an enormous and very impressive lab. He’s allowed all of his children and nephews and nieces (and a couple grandchildren) to run experiments on his equipment. Obviously, his guidance also makes for award winning projects. Plus, even students who are admitted to Cal Tech don’t have access to a lab like that until they’re upperclassmen or graduate students.

And yes, he allows the kids to be named in certain scientific articles that he publishes. I’m certainly not going to turn away my kids when they’re in high school and they need projects for their college applications. I imagine other families are similar. It’s no different than children of athletes getting one on one coaching from mom or dad.

Cal Tech Professor was the first person in his family to go to college, but since then, every single person after him has gone to college. I’m humble enough to admit that the rest of us are not at his level of intellect, but still pretty smart. He did it without any help and there are plenty of other first generation college students succeeding.

Anonymous wrote:I Googled to see what a high school classmate was up to. Bright guy but known to cheat in high school.

His kids were winning science prizes on topics related to parents' PhDs and using lab space and equipment belonging to a teammate's parent's company. Where my sister also works.

Among cited accomplishments was an alleged patentable process one of the kids invented that doesn't seem to have become productionized.

One kid became a Coca-Cola scholar. Both ended up at Stanford for part of their education. One dropped out to do a startup that sounds suspiciously like an already existing business.

This family's doings are not Theranos level of suspicious but might get there if they work hard. Lol.

By the way, the Theranos lady's dad worked at Enron.

How about that...just verified. How interesting.

The question is: do elite colleges genuinely value talent, or are they more concerned with securing funding? Many of these overly curated families aren’t highlighting merit—they’re simply demonstrating financial means.

The best way to recognize a child prodigy is by watching them in action—whether it's in sports, music, or STEM, real talent speaks for itself.

Comparing science research to athletics or music is misleading. Research can be outsourced or fabricated—true talent in sports and music can't.