Anonymous wrote:Same house for years, we don't have a car payment because we have an old car and mostly take metro, we only had one kid. We do two international trips a year. But at least one is in the Americas (carribean, canada or mexico etc). I don't understand the folks who just go to Europe every vacation. See the whole world.

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it hilarious how many posts in this thread there are where the real answer is “I’m rich” but the poster still includes a lot of details about how virtuous they are as cope. “We have a 7 figure HHI so we can afford basically any kind of travel BUT ALSO I rollerblade to work so that’s somehow relevant”

Poor people think their daily Starbucks habits don’t add up, but they do. Dh and I come from frugal, well off families. We all have always paid cash for cars and never carried debt. Car loans aren’t worth it.

The whole “lattes and avocado toast is preventing you from owning a house” trope has been thoroughly debunked.

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I find it hilarious how many posts in this thread there are where the real answer is “I’m rich” but the poster still includes a lot of details about how virtuous they are as cope. “We have a 7 figure HHI so we can afford basically any kind of travel BUT ALSO I rollerblade to work so that’s somehow relevant”

DP

Eh, we have a HHI north of $350, but we have a very low mortgage, stuck with public schools, drive our cars until they die, don’t redecorate for fun, etc. Basically, we don’t blow money on a lot of things others do so we have more money to spend on travel.

Honestly, we don’t drink, and I believe we’ve saved thousands each year because of it. I’m shocked by how much people spend on beer, wine, and booze each week—whether they drink at home or at bars. I challenge drinkers to do the math and see for themselves.

Speculating you save “thousands” through the virtue of not drinking? Wow great work being an even worse example of what I’m saying 😂

If you know people who buy multiple bottles of fancy wine each week plus whatever fancy beer and booze for their DH AND however much they spend going out Friday and Saturday night, then you realize how much some people blow on drinking. I know this because I have friends and family like this who openly comment on how nice it must be to have money to travel as much as we do, and I’ve helped them run the numbers. In short: it’s an eye opening exercise for many people.

Sorry if I hit a nerve, pp.

You did not “hit a nerve.” Of course there are endless ways to blow a fortune—including international travel. But the key is to start with a fortune.

Anonymous wrote:Hotels in Europe are the same price as in the US.

So airfare is the main difference.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, what income are you at? We subsidize with credit card rewards, so flights are mostly covered. But still spend up to $15k annually. We’re at $320k combined.

What credit card do you use?

Anonymous wrote:OP, what income are you at? We subsidize with credit card rewards, so flights are mostly covered. But still spend up to $15k annually. We’re at $320k combined.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it hilarious how many posts in this thread there are where the real answer is “I’m rich” but the poster still includes a lot of details about how virtuous they are as cope. “We have a 7 figure HHI so we can afford basically any kind of travel BUT ALSO I rollerblade to work so that’s somehow relevant”

Poor people think their daily Starbucks habits don’t add up, but they do. Dh and I come from frugal, well off families. We all have always paid cash for cars and never carried debt. Car loans aren’t worth it.

The whole “lattes and avocado toast is preventing you from owning a house” trope has been thoroughly debunked.