Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:20M isn’t poor but it is far from rich. It is a solid upper middle class retirement number. You just have to hope that you don’t end up with any expensive healthcare costs.

You are f-ing ridiculous There is NOTHING saying Middle anything in 20mil NW. Even if you adjust this number OP suspects to be too low way up it's still going to be less than 2% of the entire population of adults in the USA. Likely somewhere around 1% and that would be generous too if you do not count primary and secondary residence worth into this number and it's truly only "investable" liquid capital. How is this "middle" anything?

You are just moving goalposts to what UMC is what what is needed for comfortable retirement. Used to be 10 mil and now 20?

+1 it is really a disturbing attitude. If you don’t feel rich with 20M—a whole lot more money than 99% of people in the world—you have a serious problem. You are broken inside and it will never, ever be enough.

Either broken inside, or trolling and "aspiring", or looking up to the billionaires and generally having a warped understanding of what wealthy lifestyle is and what "middle" class anything actually means. The whole LTC and "comfortable" retirement conversations are utterly stupid and also demoralizing for anyone willing to take this seriously. You do not need in-home care with a 24/7 professional nurse always available, state of the art equipment in your home, etc to be comfortable and well taken care of.. You aren't going to be living forever no matter how much you spend.

Just had a relative live to 90 and the last 10 in memory care. Many on one side of the family live to 95-100+ (all of my great aunts/uncles/grandparents on that side) and that was 20 years ago. So I'm planning to live well into my 90s. I'd prefer to be happy and comfortable. Not in a medicaid faciltiy

Anonymous wrote:20M is not rich. Using a 3% withdrawal rate you will have an inflation adjusted 600k per year to spend in retirement. That is a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle at best. People vastly underestimate taxes, the cost of healthcare, and the cost of home maintenance.

You're completely nuts. While both my DH and I were working full time we made $600,000 or more only a couple of years and have had a very nice lifestyle. No debt, healthcare costs subsidized by the federal government. And our net worth grew from 8 million to 13 million after my husband retired and our HHI was around $350-$400,000. All of our needs and most of our wants will be covered just from pension and social security and certainly by unearned income in retirement, totalling less than $300K a year but a very healthy retirement income.

Barf

Anonymous wrote:DCUM always upping the ante. First it was a slew of HHI's @250K with $10M net worth. Now we're at $20M net worth is middle class.

Next week: If you aren't a billionaire by the time you have kids, you may starve to death with the market crash next year.

This. UMC NW just keeps stretching upward and upward at 2x a year It was "paltry" 10 mil just a year ago

It's either someone with this NW hanging out with the private jet crowd or having a business serving them, and having a warped view of reality and feeling poor without multiple homes worth multiple millions, or it's some wannabe trolling.

DCUM always upping the ante. First it was a slew of HHI's @250K with $10M net worth. Now we're at $20M net worth is middle class.

Next week: If you aren't a billionaire by the time you have kids, you may starve to death with the market crash next year.

Anonymous wrote:20M is not rich. Using a 3% withdrawal rate you will have an inflation adjusted 600k per year to spend in retirement. That is a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle at best. People vastly underestimate taxes, the cost of healthcare, and the cost of home maintenance.

You are full of BS. You magically were able to accumulate 20 mil without being a savvy investor and now these incredible investment skills that got you there are going to entirely disappear to the point of earning something close to savings or money market rate?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:20M is not rich. Using a 3% withdrawal rate you will have an inflation adjusted 600k per year to spend in retirement. That is a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle at best. People vastly underestimate taxes, the cost of healthcare, and the cost of home maintenance.

Are you retired? We are and live a very comfortable lifestyle on less than half that. Two homes, international travel, nice dinners at good restaurants, generous with our kids and grandkids, etc.

PP is not retired. It's either someone with extreme debilitating anxiety (you wonder how a person with such psychological profile is even able to accumulate quarter of this wealth..) or someone conflating building generational wealth with "retirement", or someone trolling and aspiring and being completely delusional.

Anonymous wrote:20M is not rich. Using a 3% withdrawal rate you will have an inflation adjusted 600k per year to spend in retirement. That is a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle at best. People vastly underestimate taxes, the cost of healthcare, and the cost of home maintenance.

Don't conflate wanting to build generational wealth with the retirement needs. Your primary goal is to leave this 20 mil intact for someone to inherit, not provide for comfortable retirement and end of life care that's not government subsidized Medicare nursing home.

Healthcare will be at least partially covered by medicare everyone qualifies for, and you do not need a 27/7 professional experienced nurse and a hospital standard equipped room in your house. If you are that sick, you likely won't care much whether you are in a nursing home, because you will be drugged up to half conscious state anyway to feel anything. Home maintenance requiring one to have 600K a year income if homes are already paid off? That's RICH, honey.. That's many millions of real estate that you occupy.

Anonymous wrote:20M is not rich. Using a 3% withdrawal rate you will have an inflation adjusted 600k per year to spend in retirement. That is a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle at best. People vastly underestimate taxes, the cost of healthcare, and the cost of home maintenance.

Are you retired? We are and live a very comfortable lifestyle on less than half that. Two homes, international travel, nice dinners at good restaurants, generous with our kids and grandkids, etc.

20M is not rich. Using a 3% withdrawal rate you will have an inflation adjusted 600k per year to spend in retirement. That is a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle at best. People vastly underestimate taxes, the cost of healthcare, and the cost of home maintenance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is too low. Of course I understand that my circle of friends is not a random sample, but personally know probably more than 25 people. And that does not include celebrities like Bill Gates, etc. I am not buying this number.

Similar. We personally know multiple billionaires with at least PT residence in the DC area (none of whom show up on any lists) and 25+ UHNW (on the low end) worth over $100M. Most are self-made from MC backgrounds but there’s some old money thrown in there.

How do you "personally" know them? Are you in a business catering to the mega rich? Are you in politics or socialite circles where you routinely attend events with UHNWs, organize them, etc? Working for a non-profit where you have to fish for the rich donors and have these lists presented to you or have to procure them?

Most people don't even know 25 people on personal level (spending any amount of meaningful time with them). There isn't enough time for this unless you are talking about people "you know of" whom you never met but were told about, or met in passing or they were your customers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:20M isn’t poor but it is far from rich. It is a solid upper middle class retirement number. You just have to hope that you don’t end up with any expensive healthcare costs.

You are f-ing ridiculous There is NOTHING saying Middle anything in 20mil NW. Even if you adjust this number OP suspects to be too low way up it's still going to be less than 2% of the entire population of adults in the USA. Likely somewhere around 1% and that would be generous too if you do not count primary and secondary residence worth into this number and it's truly only "investable" liquid capital. How is this "middle" anything?

You are just moving goalposts to what UMC is what what is needed for comfortable retirement. Used to be 10 mil and now 20?

+1 it is really a disturbing attitude. If you don’t feel rich with 20M—a whole lot more money than 99% of people in the world—you have a serious problem. You are broken inside and it will never, ever be enough.

Either broken inside, or trolling and "aspiring", or looking up to the billionaires and generally having a warped understanding of what wealthy lifestyle is and what "middle" class anything actually means. The whole LTC and "comfortable" retirement conversations are utterly stupid and also demoralizing for anyone willing to take this seriously. You do not need in-home care with a 24/7 professional nurse always available, state of the art equipment in your home, etc to be comfortable and well taken care of.. You aren't going to be living forever no matter how much you spend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it true that only 280,000 people in the US have a net worth over $20 million? That seems low. Is that an old figure from before the stock market went bananas?

Why, OP? Because there are like 3 of you hanging out on this forum and posting how easy it must be to accumulate this wealth we should assume that everybody and their mother is loaded?

What do we do with various statistics of how most US households are a job loss away from being destitute and don't even have a few months of savings available to them? Or people who are close to retirement and have less than 500K NW? 280k is less than 1% of total US population, it sounds about right to me. There are millions of low millionaires but 20 mil is a different level that's much harder to achieve because vast majority of people aren't good at investing without panic or creating successful businesses or earning 7 figures.

It’s estimated that 40% of Nvidia’s workforce is worth $20MM or more…that’s like 15,000 people at just one company.

Now extrapolate to all these tech companies that have seen huge stock runs over the last several years…not to mention OpenAI is private and is valued at $250BN, so you have hundreds there worth at least $20MM on paper…as well as at all these other AI companies.

FYA OpenAI caps PPU gains at 10x. So if your PPU was worth $500K it can only 10x before it is capped per PPU (so $5M). I think they were working to remove this but not sure if that ever went through. NVIDIA isn’t capped since it’s proper RSUs.

They just did a private secondary at a $250BN valuation so employees could sell shares. They said like a dozen early employees were able to sell shares garnering over $100MM each. These are the types of employees META is offering $100MM signing bonuses to poach.

I don’t how that works with the RSUs you mention above.

A dozen.. And if you reduce the number of shares, there will be what? hundreds of such employees? A few hundred in a few companies is not going to significantly alter statistics in a pool of 100s of millions of people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:20M isn’t poor but it is far from rich. It is a solid upper middle class retirement number. You just have to hope that you don’t end up with any expensive healthcare costs.

You are f-ing ridiculous There is NOTHING saying Middle anything in 20mil NW. Even if you adjust this number OP suspects to be too low way up it's still going to be less than 2% of the entire population of adults in the USA. Likely somewhere around 1% and that would be generous too if you do not count primary and secondary residence worth into this number and it's truly only "investable" liquid capital. How is this "middle" anything?

You are just moving goalposts to what UMC is what what is needed for comfortable retirement. Used to be 10 mil and now 20?

+1 it is really a disturbing attitude. If you don’t feel rich with 20M—a whole lot more money than 99% of people in the world—you have a serious problem. You are broken inside and it will never, ever be enough.

Anonymous wrote:20M isn’t poor but it is far from rich. It is a solid upper middle class retirement number. You just have to hope that you don’t end up with any expensive healthcare costs.

You are f-ing ridiculous There is NOTHING saying Middle anything in 20mil NW. Even if you adjust this number OP suspects to be too low way up it's still going to be less than 2% of the entire population of adults in the USA. Likely somewhere around 1% and that would be generous too if you do not count primary and secondary residence worth into this number and it's truly only "investable" liquid capital. How is this "middle" anything?

You are just moving goalposts to what UMC is what what is needed for comfortable retirement. Used to be 10 mil and now 20?