Anonymous wrote:Its just sad how people try to defend a toxic habit.

Anonymous wrote:Its just sad how people try to defend a toxic habit.

Anonymous wrote:Cardiologist says a glass of wine (not a bottle of wine) with dinner is a net health benefit. Disagree with OP's (false) premise that any non-zero amount of alcohol is harmful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is a fact for you : moderate drinkers live, on average, longer than never-drinkers. So it is not simply an artifact of people giving up alcohol for health reasons.

Now, it may be true that if you control for enough other factors you can still tease out enough harm that on net it is negative, but it clearly indicates that the negative impact of moderate alcohol consumption is not huge.

This, and I haven't seen any human on this study with both a large sample size and really comprehensive controls. Those studies are expensive and difficult, but are what really is needed to draw specific actionable conclusions.

Anonymous wrote:Here is a fact for you : moderate drinkers live, on average, longer than never-drinkers. So it is not simply an artifact of people giving up alcohol for health reasons.

Now, it may be true that if you control for enough other factors you can still tease out enough harm that on net it is negative, but it clearly indicates that the negative impact of moderate alcohol consumption is not huge.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all the information about alcohol causing cancer, Parkinson’s, wrinkles, anxiety, why do you still drink it? What makes you risk your health? Does it make you feel so good that it’s worth the risks?

Everything has a risk, driving, walking on a sidewalk, breezing, drinking water.... Alcohol does not cause cancer, it may increase your chances to have cancer.

Go read the study. It literally does cause cancer. It's not clear to the extent and the consumption levels.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am optimizing the quality of my life, not the quantity. Fine wines add immeasurably to that quality. It also enhances socialization, which is extremely beneficial for health and happiness.

smoking is also fun and looks cool... it would enhance my life a ton if it was consequence free. But it's not.

grow up

I did smoke for a few years, but gave it up 30 years ago when I realized that the risk/reward ratio was so unfavorable. The risk/reward ratio with alcohol is very different. There are cardiovascular benefits from moderate drinking that partially offset the cancer risk. And, as I mentioned, the social benefits are huge. Many of the best times of my life have involved alcohol, and I wouldn’t trade that for a few more years of life (if that is even the trade-off - bear in mind that moderate drinkers outlive non-drinkers significantly. It is only when you start controlling for a lot of other factors that you can produce a result showing the harmful impact).

The research is new enough and still developing so you can't possibly say with any confidence what the real risk/rewards are. But we do know that the previous surgeon general was planning on adding cigarette style cancer warnings to booze and Trump killed it, and now his administration is trying to pull a study linking booze to breast cancer, in favor of an industry backed study finding that alcohol has cardiovascular benefits. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/health/alcohol-drinking-hhs-report.html

Remember, the studies that find it has cardiovascular benefits are almost all backed by the industry. The research that is coming out is pretty consistent that cancer risk is real and claims of cardiovascular benefits are shaky. It's also notable that the definition of "moderate drinking" that *MAY* have a cardiovascular benefit (though again, stressing that seems less likely) is set at 2 drinks a day for men, and one for women, and even without discussing the cancer issue, there was a push from the scientific end of the conversation that it should be lowered to 1 for men and less than 1 for women (industry pushed back on those changes).

So, if there's any cardiovascular benefit, it's might be found in women who have less than a drink a day. Not exactly social lubrication levels of drinking, more like a small glass of wine with dinner, a few times a week.

If you're genuinely interested (and you should be since you seem interested in your health) read more about it: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/03/health/alcohol-surgeon-general-warning.html

"There is no question that heavy consumption is harmful. But supporters of moderate drinking — including makers of wine, beer and spirits, and some physicians and scientists — argue that a little alcohol each day may reduce cardiovascular disease, the No. 1 killer in the United States.

Newer scientific studies have criticized the methodology of earlier studies, however, and have challenged that view, which was once a consensus.

While most cancer deaths occur at drinking levels that exceed the current recommended dietary guidelines, the risk for cancers of the breast, the mouth and the throat may rise with consumption of as little as one drink a day, or even less, Dr. Murthy said on Friday.

Overall, one of every six breast cancer cases is attributable to alcohol consumption, Dr. Murthy said. More recent studies have also linked moderate alcohol consumption to certain forms of heart disease, including atrial fibrillation, a heart arrhythmia."

Here is a fact for you : moderate drinkers live, on average, longer than never-drinkers. So it is not simply an artifact of people giving up alcohol for health reasons.

Now, it may be true that if you control for enough other factors you can still tease out enough harm that on net it is negative, but it clearly indicates that the negative impact of moderate alcohol consumption is not huge.

Being massively overweight and eating tons of sugar and processed crap and being sedentary is 1000% worse for a person than having a few glasses of wine each week.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I drink it because I like it. And I'm not too concerned about the cancer risk. It doesn't affect everyone the same. And given all of the carcinogens we are exposed to, there's a good chance that if you do get cancer, it'll be because of something else.

A) this is a wildly uninformed opinion. you have no idea about the relative cancer risk of alcohol and how it affects everyone--the research is just starting to come through, but there is a clear and undeniable link between drinking and cancer. ignore it if you want, but don't pretend you understand the relative risk, because no one does.

B) nothing affects everyone the same... tobacco and nicotine dont' affect everyone the same. there are people who smoke their whole lives and dont' get cancer. there are lots of people who smoke who die of things other than cancer. neither of those facts have any relevance on the argument that you should not smoke because it is a high cancer risk. most people who smoke in any quantity for any moderate to long period will develop lung cancer... some people will develop lung cancer after smoking only a short period. alcohol is pretty similar, but the current research (still early) suggests that the risk of cancer from drinking is at least as serious as the risk of cancer from tobacco.

C) if you do get cancer, there's not a good chance it will be because of something else. it depends on the cancer and the person. but the research does show alcohol is very strongly connected to cancer. more strongly than a lto of other things we're concerned may be carcinogens.

D) I assume you don't smoke, or mishandle asbestos, etc. because you understand that while not ALL people get cancer from doing those things, the risk is not a joke. elevate alcohol to that level.

So you admit that "nothing affects everyone the same" but then go on to insist that because there's a link (which you also admit is "still early" and no one understands the "relative risk", my opinion about not being too concerned is somehow wildly uninformed. Got it.

It's early, there's a lot more to understand but what is already clear is that, like with tobacco, there is a very strong correlation and there is no "safe" amount of alcohol to avoid getting cancer. Maybe we'll learn more in the future, but what we know so far isn't wishy-washy -- alcohol consumption undeniably raises your risks for cancer. Full stop. How, why, what types of cancer, more details on the exact likelihood of developing cancer is not super clear. But it doesn't have to be-- as we both agree, different people are affected differently. Some people never get lung cancer despite being heavy smokers, some people develop lung cancer despite only light smoking many years prior. But most people do. UV Rays affect everyone's skin differently--though the variation isn't as much as it is with tobacco and lung cancer... most people, if they expose themselves enough WILL develop some form of skin cancer. Much more concrete than the tobacco connection. But there are people who burn the crap out of their skin and never get cancer.

But it's all probability.

Alcohol is going to be somewhere on the spectrum, maybe more or less probability of developing cancer than cigarette smoking, probably less than the sunburn-->skin cancer probability. We don't know yet. But we do know it's the same game. And less consumption for shorter periods of your life, will lower the probability.

You are weirdly insistent that people agree with your assessment of the risk. Don’t drink alcohol if you’re so concerned about the possibility of getting cancer. Don’t go in the sun either because, you know, skin cancer. Eek.

You’re weirdly insistent that it’s my assessment of the risk. It was the US surgeon generals assessment of the risk (tho Trump’s surgeon general is working frantically with the booze industry to reverse and start promoting the heart healthy myth).

I don’t go around with an ax smashing other people’s booze or anything but we ARE having a discussion about what we all think about booze… so you know the weird thing is how upset you seem to be getting that other people keep having opinions that might make you feel like you need to make changes to your own life.

Weird.

But we CAN take about the societal costs of alcoholism and why that is as much business as anti smoking campaigns and seatbelt promotions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day genetics is stronger than lifestyle. No matter how much you take care of yourself your genes will decide your future.

Right... if you're genetically predisposed to breast cancer, you really probably shouldn't drink alcohol. 1 in 8 cases of breast cancer appear to be linked to alcohol consumption. Men probably don't need to worry about it, so, to your point, genetics is important.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am optimizing the quality of my life, not the quantity. Fine wines add immeasurably to that quality. It also enhances socialization, which is extremely beneficial for health and happiness.

smoking is also fun and looks cool... it would enhance my life a ton if it was consequence free. But it's not.

grow up

I did smoke for a few years, but gave it up 30 years ago when I realized that the risk/reward ratio was so unfavorable. The risk/reward ratio with alcohol is very different. There are cardiovascular benefits from moderate drinking that partially offset the cancer risk. And, as I mentioned, the social benefits are huge. Many of the best times of my life have involved alcohol, and I wouldn’t trade that for a few more years of life (if that is even the trade-off - bear in mind that moderate drinkers outlive non-drinkers significantly. It is only when you start controlling for a lot of other factors that you can produce a result showing the harmful impact).

The research is new enough and still developing so you can't possibly say with any confidence what the real risk/rewards are. But we do know that the previous surgeon general was planning on adding cigarette style cancer warnings to booze and Trump killed it, and now his administration is trying to pull a study linking booze to breast cancer, in favor of an industry backed study finding that alcohol has cardiovascular benefits. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/health/alcohol-drinking-hhs-report.html

Remember, the studies that find it has cardiovascular benefits are almost all backed by the industry. The research that is coming out is pretty consistent that cancer risk is real and claims of cardiovascular benefits are shaky. It's also notable that the definition of "moderate drinking" that *MAY* have a cardiovascular benefit (though again, stressing that seems less likely) is set at 2 drinks a day for men, and one for women, and even without discussing the cancer issue, there was a push from the scientific end of the conversation that it should be lowered to 1 for men and less than 1 for women (industry pushed back on those changes).

So, if there's any cardiovascular benefit, it's might be found in women who have less than a drink a day. Not exactly social lubrication levels of drinking, more like a small glass of wine with dinner, a few times a week.

If you're genuinely interested (and you should be since you seem interested in your health) read more about it: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/03/health/alcohol-surgeon-general-warning.html

"There is no question that heavy consumption is harmful. But supporters of moderate drinking — including makers of wine, beer and spirits, and some physicians and scientists — argue that a little alcohol each day may reduce cardiovascular disease, the No. 1 killer in the United States.

Newer scientific studies have criticized the methodology of earlier studies, however, and have challenged that view, which was once a consensus.

While most cancer deaths occur at drinking levels that exceed the current recommended dietary guidelines, the risk for cancers of the breast, the mouth and the throat may rise with consumption of as little as one drink a day, or even less, Dr. Murthy said on Friday.

Overall, one of every six breast cancer cases is attributable to alcohol consumption, Dr. Murthy said. More recent studies have also linked moderate alcohol consumption to certain forms of heart disease, including atrial fibrillation, a heart arrhythmia."

Here is a fact for you : moderate drinkers live, on average, longer than never-drinkers. So it is not simply an artifact of people giving up alcohol for health reasons.

Now, it may be true that if you control for enough other factors you can still tease out enough harm that on net it is negative, but it clearly indicates that the negative impact of moderate alcohol consumption is not huge.