Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Housekeeper is Cheaper than a divorce.

Hire someone to do all of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, and errand running. Get a lawn service.
It will be expensive, but even if it costs $60k/yr, it’s cheaper than setting up two separate households.

This is one of the wisest comments on the thread. It's an extreme, but honestly nothing kills my libido faster than feeling like I'm the family maid. It's one thing to clean up after kids who are too young to do it themselves, or even when they are older if they can't yet do it effectively and need help. That just feels like parenting.

Cleaning up after an adult is demeaning. Especially if that adult makes no or limited effort to clean up after themselves. I'm about to get graphic here so if you don't like it skip it, but this is what it was like to clean my home after 10 years of marriage with my husband: He had bowel issues and his poop would stick like black tar to the toilet bowl, so I'd be scrubbing his black tar poop off the bowl. I'd be snaking drains full of his beard clippings and wiping his spittle off of mirrors, he would never do any of these things himself. He walks through the house eating chip and crackers but refuses to sweep or vacuum, so I'd be picking up his trail of crumbs to prevent us from getting ants. He wouldn't wipe his feet before coming in the house and would forget to take off his shoes, so I'd be cleaning up mud and dirt from his shoes. When he cooks, he bangs the spoon on the pot and splashes things and drops things and never picks them up, so I'd be scrubbing the underside of cabinets and scrubbing the floor. He is a packrat and would fill his closet with junk and trash and then never be able to find anything and it would stink, so I'd clean out the entire closet, sort his clothes and shoes, make piles for him to approval the tossing of (I learned to never throw away anything without asking him first). He works at the dining table and dirt or grime from his feet and hands and computer will leave a film on the table and floor that he never cleans up, so I'd be scrubbing this grime so that we could eat at the table without sitting in his filth. And much, much more.

I do not believe it is possible to clean up after a marital partner like this and remain interested in sex with them. It made me feel like hired help, only I didn't get paid. I had a job through all this, by the way, and did the vast majority of the childcare and parenting. It is belittling and demeaning on a fundamental level.

By the time I was in my late 40s, I never fantasized about sex. I fantasized about someone cleaning up after ME for once. I imagined climbing into a bed of clean sheets someone else had stripped and washed and remade. Stepping onto a clean floor someone else had vacuumed and mopped. Showering in a fresh and clean shower someone else had washed. And so on. I was so burned out on caring for other people. The idea of having sex was revolting to me. I merely wanted to feel cared for and valued.

Anonymous wrote:Housework is foreplay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she won't have sex with you it's not about you not doing your fair share of housework. That would not stop her if she really wanted you. She doesn't and that's hard to accept but you need to accept it. Or, prove it to yourself by stepping up and doing everything she wants. It's not likely to change.

She also expects you to be a good provider and afford your family nice things and the ability to go on vacations. You are that and it makes no difference to her. She doesn't desire you and has lost respect for you. But she will gladly keep you around for what you do provide for another ten years until the children are older and on their own and she faces the prospect of being empty nesters as you near retirement.

Then she will cash out and divorce you and suddenly, she will also find her libido. With another man. You deserve better. Derail her plan now and pursue a better life with a women who respects you. In the mean time, I'd recommend finding an AP but keep in mind, when you get caught, you will be the bad guy in that divorce while she is blameless.

This story has been written 100 times on this board alone. Women are fairly predictable. You just need to learn their long game.

Back to the 1950s or Saudi Arabia. Take your pick PP. What nonsense.

No, this is the modern day married woman strategy. It's certainly not how women do it in Saudi Arabia and your reference to 1950s makes even less sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Housekeeper is Cheaper than a divorce.

Hire someone to do all of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, and errand running. Get a lawn service.
It will be expensive, but even if it costs $60k/yr, it’s cheaper than setting up two separate households.

This is one of the wisest comments on the thread. It's an extreme, but honestly nothing kills my libido faster than feeling like I'm the family maid. It's one thing to clean up after kids who are too young to do it themselves, or even when they are older if they can't yet do it effectively and need help. That just feels like parenting.

Cleaning up after an adult is demeaning. Especially if that adult makes no or limited effort to clean up after themselves. I'm about to get graphic here so if you don't like it skip it, but this is what it was like to clean my home after 10 years of marriage with my husband: He had bowel issues and his poop would stick like black tar to the toilet bowl, so I'd be scrubbing his black tar poop off the bowl. I'd be snaking drains full of his beard clippings and wiping his spittle off of mirrors, he would never do any of these things himself. He walks through the house eating chip and crackers but refuses to sweep or vacuum, so I'd be picking up his trail of crumbs to prevent us from getting ants. He wouldn't wipe his feet before coming in the house and would forget to take off his shoes, so I'd be cleaning up mud and dirt from his shoes. When he cooks, he bangs the spoon on the pot and splashes things and drops things and never picks them up, so I'd be scrubbing the underside of cabinets and scrubbing the floor. He is a packrat and would fill his closet with junk and trash and then never be able to find anything and it would stink, so I'd clean out the entire closet, sort his clothes and shoes, make piles for him to approval the tossing of (I learned to never throw away anything without asking him first). He works at the dining table and dirt or grime from his feet and hands and computer will leave a film on the table and floor that he never cleans up, so I'd be scrubbing this grime so that we could eat at the table without sitting in his filth. And much, much more.

I do not believe it is possible to clean up after a marital partner like this and remain interested in sex with them. It made me feel like hired help, only I didn't get paid. I had a job through all this, by the way, and did the vast majority of the childcare and parenting. It is belittling and demeaning on a fundamental level.

By the time I was in my late 40s, I never fantasized about sex. I fantasized about someone cleaning up after ME for once. I imagined climbing into a bed of clean sheets someone else had stripped and washed and remade. Stepping onto a clean floor someone else had vacuumed and mopped. Showering in a fresh and clean shower someone else had washed. And so on. I was so burned out on caring for other people. The idea of having sex was revolting to me. I merely wanted to feel cared for and valued.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she won't have sex with you it's not about you not doing your fair share of housework. That would not stop her if she really wanted you. She doesn't and that's hard to accept but you need to accept it. Or, prove it to yourself by stepping up and doing everything she wants. It's not likely to change.

She also expects you to be a good provider and afford your family nice things and the ability to go on vacations. You are that and it makes no difference to her. She doesn't desire you and has lost respect for you. But she will gladly keep you around for what you do provide for another ten years until the children are older and on their own and she faces the prospect of being empty nesters as you near retirement.

Then she will cash out and divorce you and suddenly, she will also find her libido. With another man. You deserve better. Derail her plan now and pursue a better life with a women who respects you. In the mean time, I'd recommend finding an AP but keep in mind, when you get caught, you will be the bad guy in that divorce while she is blameless.

This story has been written 100 times on this board alone. Women are fairly predictable. You just need to learn their long game.

Back to the 1950s or Saudi Arabia. Take your pick PP. What nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol, you don’t know why she says no but she says “ something about how I’m not helping run the family and then I get angry when it’s brought up” so maybe if you don’t get angry when she tells you she is caring for the entire and wants help, maybe start there. Besides cleaning, plan and cook some meals, organize a family outing or cart kids around to activities could be a place to start

Yeah, it’s really smart to have sex with your husband conditional on helping with cleaning and cooking. Not having sex for years will definitely help him see your perspective.

Clearly the household chores should be shared, but it depends on career choices financial considerations etc.

Then you’ll figure out he is getting it elsewhere and feel betrayed that he wanted something else.

I don’t know a single woman who has felt more betrayed by a husband cheating than she did about him not participating in the family life that they decided to create together. For most women who are cheated on, the use of time and family resources on the affair is the main source of resentment.

Imagine that her not having sex with you when you don’t help with cooking and cleaning is like you refusing to cook dinner for her when she screwed the neighbor that afternoon. Sure. It isn’t going to help your marriage to refuse. But is it really a reasonable thing to ask you to do?

Then it’s about finding an arrangement that works for both of you. He has to wine and dine the AP to get some, and you can ask for hired help for the domestic chores. Sounds like a win-win for both of you, definitely your DH might be fine with it. That, or an expensive divorce that will ruin your kids lives. Don’t be selfish! Curious to see how you’d see this resolved acceptably.

Clearly you have no experience with this. You don't wine and dine an AP or spend time out in public with them. Neither of you has time for that either. You get together for one purpose as time allows and quickly part ways until the next liaison can be arranged.

I actually have a lot of experience with this.

Anonymous wrote:It’s been more than a few years and we both work, now have two middle schoolers and did a big move to the area two years back.

I get frisky and initiate but she does not reciprocate. Once she got sad and said it’s because she is too hurt, something about how I’m not helping run the family and then I get angry when it’s brought up. I work very hard and am playing the long game at work. We also take great family vacations.

But is no sex a grounds for divorce? Sounds like she also is unhappy but about other stuff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Housekeeper is Cheaper than a divorce.

Hire someone to do all of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, and errand running. Get a lawn service.
It will be expensive, but even if it costs $60k/yr, it’s cheaper than setting up two separate households.

This is one of the wisest comments on the thread. It's an extreme, but honestly nothing kills my libido faster than feeling like I'm the family maid. It's one thing to clean up after kids who are too young to do it themselves, or even when they are older if they can't yet do it effectively and need help. That just feels like parenting.

Cleaning up after an adult is demeaning. Especially if that adult makes no or limited effort to clean up after themselves. I'm about to get graphic here so if you don't like it skip it, but this is what it was like to clean my home after 10 years of marriage with my husband: He had bowel issues and his poop would stick like black tar to the toilet bowl, so I'd be scrubbing his black tar poop off the bowl. I'd be snaking drains full of his beard clippings and wiping his spittle off of mirrors, he would never do any of these things himself. He walks through the house eating chip and crackers but refuses to sweep or vacuum, so I'd be picking up his trail of crumbs to prevent us from getting ants. He wouldn't wipe his feet before coming in the house and would forget to take off his shoes, so I'd be cleaning up mud and dirt from his shoes. When he cooks, he bangs the spoon on the pot and splashes things and drops things and never picks them up, so I'd be scrubbing the underside of cabinets and scrubbing the floor. He is a packrat and would fill his closet with junk and trash and then never be able to find anything and it would stink, so I'd clean out the entire closet, sort his clothes and shoes, make piles for him to approval the tossing of (I learned to never throw away anything without asking him first). He works at the dining table and dirt or grime from his feet and hands and computer will leave a film on the table and floor that he never cleans up, so I'd be scrubbing this grime so that we could eat at the table without sitting in his filth. And much, much more.

I do not believe it is possible to clean up after a marital partner like this and remain interested in sex with them. It made me feel like hired help, only I didn't get paid. I had a job through all this, by the way, and did the vast majority of the childcare and parenting. It is belittling and demeaning on a fundamental level.

By the time I was in my late 40s, I never fantasized about sex. I fantasized about someone cleaning up after ME for once. I imagined climbing into a bed of clean sheets someone else had stripped and washed and remade. Stepping onto a clean floor someone else had vacuumed and mopped. Showering in a fresh and clean shower someone else had washed. And so on. I was so burned out on caring for other people. The idea of having sex was revolting to me. I merely wanted to feel cared for and valued.

NP, I would need a maid to literally follow him around all day, picking up and cleaning messes and debris he makes and “doesn’t see.”

I now know why his mother had no toys in the house, no snacks or desserts, and he had only five shirts and two pair of trousers.

They also never took real vacations or had holiday traditions. She was too burned out from three of them all being pigs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Housekeeper is Cheaper than a divorce.

Hire someone to do all of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, and errand running. Get a lawn service.
It will be expensive, but even if it costs $60k/yr, it’s cheaper than setting up two separate households.

This is one of the wisest comments on the thread. It's an extreme, but honestly nothing kills my libido faster than feeling like I'm the family maid. It's one thing to clean up after kids who are too young to do it themselves, or even when they are older if they can't yet do it effectively and need help. That just feels like parenting.

Cleaning up after an adult is demeaning. Especially if that adult makes no or limited effort to clean up after themselves. I'm about to get graphic here so if you don't like it skip it, but this is what it was like to clean my home after 10 years of marriage with my husband: He had bowel issues and his poop would stick like black tar to the toilet bowl, so I'd be scrubbing his black tar poop off the bowl. I'd be snaking drains full of his beard clippings and wiping his spittle off of mirrors, he would never do any of these things himself. He walks through the house eating chip and crackers but refuses to sweep or vacuum, so I'd be picking up his trail of crumbs to prevent us from getting ants. He wouldn't wipe his feet before coming in the house and would forget to take off his shoes, so I'd be cleaning up mud and dirt from his shoes. When he cooks, he bangs the spoon on the pot and splashes things and drops things and never picks them up, so I'd be scrubbing the underside of cabinets and scrubbing the floor. He is a packrat and would fill his closet with junk and trash and then never be able to find anything and it would stink, so I'd clean out the entire closet, sort his clothes and shoes, make piles for him to approval the tossing of (I learned to never throw away anything without asking him first). He works at the dining table and dirt or grime from his feet and hands and computer will leave a film on the table and floor that he never cleans up, so I'd be scrubbing this grime so that we could eat at the table without sitting in his filth. And much, much more.

I do not believe it is possible to clean up after a marital partner like this and remain interested in sex with them. It made me feel like hired help, only I didn't get paid. I had a job through all this, by the way, and did the vast majority of the childcare and parenting. It is belittling and demeaning on a fundamental level.

By the time I was in my late 40s, I never fantasized about sex. I fantasized about someone cleaning up after ME for once. I imagined climbing into a bed of clean sheets someone else had stripped and washed and remade. Stepping onto a clean floor someone else had vacuumed and mopped. Showering in a fresh and clean shower someone else had washed. And so on. I was so burned out on caring for other people. The idea of having sex was revolting to me. I merely wanted to feel cared for and valued.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s been more than a few years and we both work, now have two middle schoolers and did a big move to the area two years back.

I get frisky and initiate but she does not reciprocate. Once she got sad and said it’s because she is too hurt, something about how I’m not helping run the family and then I get angry when it’s brought up. I work very hard and am playing the long game at work. We also take great family vacations.

But is no sex a grounds for divorce? Sounds like she also is unhappy but about other stuff.

What do you mean you “get angry” at talking about life?

Then you go demand sex? Yikes.

Means he’s an verbally abusive angry petty man at home.

Anonymous wrote:A Housekeeper is Cheaper than a divorce.

Hire someone to do all of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, and errand running. Get a lawn service.
It will be expensive, but even if it costs $60k/yr, it’s cheaper than setting up two separate households.

Anonymous wrote:So will her having sex with him make his anger outbursts cease and him hang out with the family more?

Or will him ceasing his anger outbursts and finally being present in the household, lead to more sex?

Hmm hmm hmm

Anonymous wrote:So will her having sex with him make his anger outbursts cease and him hang out with the family more?

Or will him ceasing his anger outbursts and finally being present in the household, lead to more sex?

Hmm hmm hmm