Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was traveling and didn't confront the kind of over tourism you see now. It was easy to go off grid because there was no grid. You didn't have to worry about someone posting a video of you for the rest of the world to see. We wrote lots of letters. It's amazing to reread those now.

I was going to say this! I am SO glad that I experienced safari in Africa, cliff diving on the Amalfi coast, rave dancing in Berlin, walking the canals of St Petersburg during White Nights, and other common destinations without the overexposure and hordes. Yes, Venice was still crowded with tourists as was the Louvre. But it was a completely different scale.

Now you have to get a permit to hike Machu Picchu to slow the crowds? Go to Kyoto and you'll see frat bros cosplaying in samurai robes. Visiting Yosemite is a joke - a long line of cars slowing to gawk and landscapes for 2 minutes. I was in Nantucket recently and couldn't walk through town at a normal pace. I used to hike Old Rag once a month, and saw more bears than people.

I guess it's great that more people have exposure to all of this. It's not just for the privileged few. But boy, do I feel sorry for anyone who didn't get to be a tourist wandering the globe without meeting more Americans than local residents. Discovering a waterfall or patch of jungle that hadn't been Instagrammed to death. Setting out without an iPhone map to guide you. It's a loss.

Anonymous wrote:In the 90s it was difficult to even imagine that the American Empire might end. We knew it could, of course, but it was hard to imagine exactly how. Kind of like when your marriage is going well and it's hard to imagine the possibility of divorce.

Now the divorce is in sight. Kind of like that realization within a marriage when you know it will end, even if not exactly how.

Anonymous wrote:I was traveling and didn't confront the kind of over tourism you see now. It was easy to go off grid because there was no grid. You didn't have to worry about someone posting a video of you for the rest of the world to see. We wrote lots of letters. It's amazing to reread those now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:90s were like peak America. Things have really gone downhill since 9/11.

+1. That was the inflection point. A lot of it due to the self-inflicted wound of intrusive government and technology from the patriot act.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP needs to keep in mind that in the 1990s the white middle class suburban demographics was the majority, if not by far the biggest single demographic cohort in the country. If you want to take the stance that if you were white and middle class then you only have an biased perspective of life in the 1990s, you're ignoring how the majority actually experienced the 90s, which means you're risking seeking out a minority and biased perspective of the decade. And contrary to what some youngsters like to believe, gays and minorities weren't persecuted, you'd have to go back much earlier.

That aside, there were huge ranges in how people "experienced" the decade as well as variations within the decade itself, from the brief 1991-2 recession to the boom of the end of the decade (which incidentally set up the framework for the great recession in the long run). I remember plenty of uncertainty and fears about everything, which is utterly typical for every decade and every generation. Some things feel better about the 90s, especially the pre social media era. There's been a great deal of cultural changes in larger society, some for the better, some that are neutral, and some that simply means a different kind of future than previously assumed. I actually think Europe actually is having a much harder time with this than the US.

I will say technology improvements, for all its benefits, has sped up the pace of how things are done and lived these days compared to the 1990s, which did move at a fast pace of its own. It seems like the more technology we have, the faster we have to live our lives. The pace is breathtaking nowadays and the ability to step out of it to a slower lifestyle seems impossible, at least without significant economic implications.

It is pretty sweeping to say gays and minorities weren't persecuted.

Just because you didn't experience it personally, does not mean it is not true.

Yes many people had the good life in the 1990s but there was still discrimination.

Mid 60’s here. Graduated from HS in 1978 so lived through both the 80s and the 90s as a lesbian. Here’s my take. The music and the clubs were like nothing that exists today. We had Black Sabbath, Queen, MeatLoaf, . . . Gay clubs in virtually any larger city were so full of energy and life. I don’t know that any generation will ever experience the wonder that was ours every single day if we weren’t too afraid to go.

But, gay clubs were hidden and you had to be afraid to go in. They were in undesirable (dangerous) neighborhoods, so safety was a concern. And, if you were seen entering, you risked your livelihood - losing your job and your housing, particularly in the early era of AIDS. Men got paid more than women just because they were men. Getting married wasn’t even a dream and if you lived with a partner, you set up a separate bedroom so you could pretend you weren’t together since that was vital for your safety and financial security.

And, finding people like yourself was like finding an underground community. You got publications like Lesbian Connections delivered in brown paper so no one would know what it was and the second it was delivered, you devoured it because you were so desperate for connections. That’s how you found out about things like the Michigan Women’s Music Festival.

I am white so I only observed the treatment of those who weren’t. But non white people were forced into their own communities. If they dared to buy a house in a white area, they had to worry about their kids being beaten up at the bus stop. Our parents didn’t allow us to play with non white kids or bring them around our house ever. There were segregated pools and grocery stores where the “colored” shopped. We were taught to be afraid of them.

And, once you hit a certain age, somewhere between 16 and 18, you were expected to move out and take care of yourself. Parents weren’t financing their kids’ college or their kids’ lives after HS graduation. We all pounded the pavement for jobs by the time were were 14 because our parents weren’t giving us money, but back then, 10 year olds could babysit your kids and parents went out often so there was that.

Oh, and don’t forget that women couldn’t get credit cards until the 1980s, couldn’t sign contracts, had difficulty renting apartments, etc. So, you were stuck in bad and abusive marriages. I remember when my friend’s parents divorced, my dad had to find her mom an apartment because women couldn’t apply or advertise for an apartment (back then, you advertised that you needed one, landlords didn’t advertise that they had availability).

So, do I miss the music and the clubs? Definitely yes. It was a gazillion times better than today. But, life today is so much better. As a society, we treat people the same regardless of race, sexual orientation, gender . . . I could finally get married and by the time it was legal in DC, we had been together almost two decades with kids, dogs and a house. Yes, school is more expensive for my kids than it was for me, but as a society, we generally help our kids whereas that wasn’t the case when I went to college. And, we all have health insurance without ridiculous conditions and high deductibles. HMOs and PPOs are amazing and people don’t even get what a huge change that is. And, while people criticize insurance companies, if you lived through the 80s and 90s, you’d understand how it was borne out of over treatment. Before conditions were set, people would stay in the hospital for weeks for a minor surgery and months or years for mental health issues.

And while the internet has its downsides, it sure does make finding people, travel, jobs, and everything else so much easier. Even social media has its upsides, like being able to stay in touch with family and watching them grow up when you live far away.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Now I’m going to go put on some hard rock while I go about the rest of my morning.

I graduated from high school in 1985, so I'm a few years younger than you. But I have a hard time believing that things changed so drastically in only 7 yrs, because what I bolded was not my experience at all. Maybe location played a role? I graduated from high school in Nashville. My first boss (1983, high school job) was openly gay. I went to gay clubs and bars with friends all through my college years (also in Nashville) and all of my friends were out. I'm sorry you hard that part of the experience. You're spot on about the music and dance scene. Nashville had (probably still does) an amazing music scene totally unrelated to country.

Who are you to tell another poster who is seven years older than you and openly gay that you know more about their experience than they themselves do? One thing is very clear: gay rights and gay acceptance proceeded at an exponential rate over the last several decades, and it is entirely possible — likely, in fact — that there was a huge difference in experiences from the beginning of a seven year period to the end.

Where exactly did I say I know more about their experience? I shared MY experience. And I basically said that location might have played a role since it seems unlikely that a seven years would have. No idea why you're so triggered. JFC. Weird the assumptions you're making.

You said, and this is a quote:

“I have a hard time believing that things changed so drastically in only 7 yrs”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP needs to keep in mind that in the 1990s the white middle class suburban demographics was the majority, if not by far the biggest single demographic cohort in the country. If you want to take the stance that if you were white and middle class then you only have an biased perspective of life in the 1990s, you're ignoring how the majority actually experienced the 90s, which means you're risking seeking out a minority and biased perspective of the decade. And contrary to what some youngsters like to believe, gays and minorities weren't persecuted, you'd have to go back much earlier.

That aside, there were huge ranges in how people "experienced" the decade as well as variations within the decade itself, from the brief 1991-2 recession to the boom of the end of the decade (which incidentally set up the framework for the great recession in the long run). I remember plenty of uncertainty and fears about everything, which is utterly typical for every decade and every generation. Some things feel better about the 90s, especially the pre social media era. There's been a great deal of cultural changes in larger society, some for the better, some that are neutral, and some that simply means a different kind of future than previously assumed. I actually think Europe actually is having a much harder time with this than the US.

I will say technology improvements, for all its benefits, has sped up the pace of how things are done and lived these days compared to the 1990s, which did move at a fast pace of its own. It seems like the more technology we have, the faster we have to live our lives. The pace is breathtaking nowadays and the ability to step out of it to a slower lifestyle seems impossible, at least without significant economic implications.

It is pretty sweeping to say gays and minorities weren't persecuted.

Just because you didn't experience it personally, does not mean it is not true.

Yes many people had the good life in the 1990s but there was still discrimination.

Mid 60’s here. Graduated from HS in 1978 so lived through both the 80s and the 90s as a lesbian. Here’s my take. The music and the clubs were like nothing that exists today. We had Black Sabbath, Queen, MeatLoaf, . . . Gay clubs in virtually any larger city were so full of energy and life. I don’t know that any generation will ever experience the wonder that was ours every single day if we weren’t too afraid to go.

But, gay clubs were hidden and you had to be afraid to go in. They were in undesirable (dangerous) neighborhoods, so safety was a concern. And, if you were seen entering, you risked your livelihood - losing your job and your housing, particularly in the early era of AIDS. Men got paid more than women just because they were men. Getting married wasn’t even a dream and if you lived with a partner, you set up a separate bedroom so you could pretend you weren’t together since that was vital for your safety and financial security.

And, finding people like yourself was like finding an underground community. You got publications like Lesbian Connections delivered in brown paper so no one would know what it was and the second it was delivered, you devoured it because you were so desperate for connections. That’s how you found out about things like the Michigan Women’s Music Festival.

I am white so I only observed the treatment of those who weren’t. But non white people were forced into their own communities. If they dared to buy a house in a white area, they had to worry about their kids being beaten up at the bus stop. Our parents didn’t allow us to play with non white kids or bring them around our house ever. There were segregated pools and grocery stores where the “colored” shopped. We were taught to be afraid of them.

And, once you hit a certain age, somewhere between 16 and 18, you were expected to move out and take care of yourself. Parents weren’t financing their kids’ college or their kids’ lives after HS graduation. We all pounded the pavement for jobs by the time were were 14 because our parents weren’t giving us money, but back then, 10 year olds could babysit your kids and parents went out often so there was that.

Oh, and don’t forget that women couldn’t get credit cards until the 1980s, couldn’t sign contracts, had difficulty renting apartments, etc. So, you were stuck in bad and abusive marriages. I remember when my friend’s parents divorced, my dad had to find her mom an apartment because women couldn’t apply or advertise for an apartment (back then, you advertised that you needed one, landlords didn’t advertise that they had availability).

So, do I miss the music and the clubs? Definitely yes. It was a gazillion times better than today. But, life today is so much better. As a society, we treat people the same regardless of race, sexual orientation, gender . . . I could finally get married and by the time it was legal in DC, we had been together almost two decades with kids, dogs and a house. Yes, school is more expensive for my kids than it was for me, but as a society, we generally help our kids whereas that wasn’t the case when I went to college. And, we all have health insurance without ridiculous conditions and high deductibles. HMOs and PPOs are amazing and people don’t even get what a huge change that is. And, while people criticize insurance companies, if you lived through the 80s and 90s, you’d understand how it was borne out of over treatment. Before conditions were set, people would stay in the hospital for weeks for a minor surgery and months or years for mental health issues.

And while the internet has its downsides, it sure does make finding people, travel, jobs, and everything else so much easier. Even social media has its upsides, like being able to stay in touch with family and watching them grow up when you live far away.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Now I’m going to go put on some hard rock while I go about the rest of my morning.

I graduated from high school in 1985, so I'm a few years younger than you. But I have a hard time believing that things changed so drastically in only 7 yrs, because what I bolded was not my experience at all. Maybe location played a role? I graduated from high school in Nashville. My first boss (1983, high school job) was openly gay. I went to gay clubs and bars with friends all through my college years (also in Nashville) and all of my friends were out. I'm sorry you hard that part of the experience. You're spot on about the music and dance scene. Nashville had (probably still does) an amazing music scene totally unrelated to country.