Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To restate the question: I have a child who is struggling and has been for a long time. I understandably am tired or dealing with the challenges of this difficult child when my other children are easier. Can I exclude the difficult child who has been struggling in life for a long time from our family vacation and still be a good mom?

No, you can't exclude a struggling child unless the circumstances are extreme (like they are physically violent or doing meth on family trips). My parents get everyone a separate hotel room. It's a nice way to be together, but keep a distance. This makes dealing with each other much easier than staying in one big house.

NP. I don't think you understand the issue. You can't allow abusers to hurt those that you love, including when it's your own child hurting yourself and your other children. My sibling is not physically violent, but she does go into screaming rages around everyone, says incredibly hurtful things, misses flights on purpose and won't show up for tours that we paid for. Also maliciously orders up the dinner bill and never once offers to pay. "Way to be together"- no. My sibling doesn't even come out of said hotel room.

If sibling doesn't come out of their hotel room, doesn't that make it easier on everyone else. You're still including them on a family vacation, but not having to deal much with them. So what if they miss their flight or miss a tour? They would make it easier on you as well (and still include them). If they are around and go into a screaming rage, then you can say "love you, but can't be around you right now' and retreat to your own room or go somewhere else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m getting ready for my sibling’s funeral.

My sibling was a middle child with challenging behaviors and antagonistic behaviors.

My sibling died from their mental illness, alone and before their time.

This sibling created many a challenge on holidays and vacations.

When it’s all said and done, we always tried our best to welcome, support and love this family member even if their mental illness and behaviors made things difficult.

I am filled now with sadness and a void—a void that existed for many years of estrangement and now permanent.

I would offer the perspective that you can only control your own actions and reactions. Looking back, I know I did my very best to be inclusive and to let that person know that they were loved, even if it was not able to be received .

May I ask you a personal question? Are you also feeling… relief?

What I am feeling is quite complicated.

Mostly sad. And sad for my living parent who is heartbroken.

We shared a childhood and a loving start.

Any relief I have, to be quite honest, is that I know her is no longer suffering. He was truly tortured and in the end alone.

Anonymous wrote:How is the middle child even supposed to know you are on vacation if they rarely contact you? Tell your other kids not to post vacation photos or mention it to middle child.

Except this is worse when middle child eventually finds out. And they will.

Anonymous wrote:I’m getting ready for my sibling’s funeral.

My sibling was a middle child with challenging behaviors and antagonistic behaviors.

My sibling died from their mental illness, alone and before their time.

This sibling created many a challenge on holidays and vacations.

When it’s all said and done, we always tried our best to welcome, support and love this family member even if their mental illness and behaviors made things difficult.

I am filled now with sadness and a void—a void that existed for many years of estrangement and now permanent.

I would offer the perspective that you can only control your own actions and reactions. Looking back, I know I did my very best to be inclusive and to let that person know that they were loved, even if it was not able to be received .

May I ask you a personal question? Are you also feeling… relief?

My parents always paid for vacations even as adults. I guess it depends on what you can afford. I would probably do a camping trip or a lunch in a park like maybe Lake Fairfax lunch followed by the water park or a hike before I would consider a vacation where I'd invite a young adult and make them pay when they can't.

Anonymous wrote:To restate the question: I have a child who is struggling and has been for a long time. I understandably am tired or dealing with the challenges of this difficult child when my other children are easier. Can I exclude the difficult child who has been struggling in life for a long time from our family vacation and still be a good mom?

Yes! This child needs psychiatric help. If they are not willing to receive it, or if it doesn’t work (there are some personality disorders where people are almost never cured or normal), then yes, you are free to distance yourself. Don’t inflict your difficult kid on your easy ones!! They will breathe a sigh of relief!

No.
I would not do anything for this young adult except help them get psychiatric help (unless they are dead against it). There’s clearly something wrong with them or they are a douche. But I think it’s option 1.

OP - what did you ultimately decide to do?

How is the middle child even supposed to know you are on vacation if they rarely contact you? Tell your other kids not to post vacation photos or mention it to middle child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To restate the question: I have a child who is struggling and has been for a long time. I understandably am tired or dealing with the challenges of this difficult child when my other children are easier. Can I exclude the difficult child who has been struggling in life for a long time from our family vacation and still be a good mom?

I think you sit them down, and tell them:

1. You will always love them.
2. That after years of trying hard to manage their behavior, everyone is tired of them, and would rather vacation without them at this time.
3. That you still love them and want to support them, and are therefore ready to pay for a neuropyschological evaluation, in order to see if there is a diagnosable disorder that can be treated. It can be 3-6K, depending on where they live and what tests are included.
4. And that you will pay for all treatments that work, such as meds or targeted therapy (not general therapy without a diagnosis), if they comply with the prescribed regimen.
5. That all the family loves them and is happy to include them again in the future, if they improve their behavior.

If you are willing never to have a relationship with your child again, do it. If you are willing to cause hurt and anguish to your child (because they have caused hurt and anguish to you) and to know they will harbor justifiable bad feelings for you for your entire life, do it.

OR

You could simply say, "I'm planning a family vacation. You don't seem to enjoy them anymore. You don't have to come. But if you decide to come you can't do X and X and X. Up to you."

They don't have to be super happy and loving, they just can't do these x behaviors. You might enjoy the vacation more if they weren't there (not doing hos behaviors but also not being super happy and loving) but the cost of that greater enjoyment is too high in my opinion. Exclusion is one of the most hurtful things you can do.

OP, I don't think that being in school should be the deciding factor with respect to the vacation. However, if this adult child can't get along with the rest of the family and will actively complain during the entire vacation, I think that is a valid reason to not include them. But I would ask them whether they even want to go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To restate the question: I have a child who is struggling and has been for a long time. I understandably am tired or dealing with the challenges of this difficult child when my other children are easier. Can I exclude the difficult child who has been struggling in life for a long time from our family vacation and still be a good mom?

No, you can't exclude a struggling child unless the circumstances are extreme (like they are physically violent or doing meth on family trips). My parents get everyone a separate hotel room. It's a nice way to be together, but keep a distance. This makes dealing with each other much easier than staying in one big house.

NP. I don't think you understand the issue. You can't allow abusers to hurt those that you love, including when it's your own child hurting yourself and your other children. My sibling is not physically violent, but she does go into screaming rages around everyone, says incredibly hurtful things, misses flights on purpose and won't show up for tours that we paid for. Also maliciously orders up the dinner bill and never once offers to pay. "Way to be together"- no. My sibling doesn't even come out of said hotel room.

Anonymous wrote:To restate the question: I have a child who is struggling and has been for a long time. I understandably am tired or dealing with the challenges of this difficult child when my other children are easier. Can I exclude the difficult child who has been struggling in life for a long time from our family vacation and still be a good mom?

No, you can't exclude a struggling child unless the circumstances are extreme (like they are physically violent or doing meth on family trips). My parents get everyone a separate hotel room. It's a nice way to be together, but keep a distance. This makes dealing with each other much easier than staying in one big house.

I am the other children. Don't include the "bad child." And I'm saying this from a healthy place. I hold no ill will against my sibling, but they don't want to be there and they ruin the trip for everyone else.

My parents have just stopped paying for trips for anyone because of this to make it more "fair" that they vacation with my other sibling and I's families and not with bad child. They feel like when you take a free vacation out of the picture, it makes it more palatable to the other child. Other child would NEVER pay their own way on a vacation just so they could spend time with us. They'd only go if they were freeloading, which shows more of their true intentions.

For me and my other sibling, there's a history of mental illness with the bad sibling. They have been treated so many different times and spent childhood with so many therapists. Other sibling and I have a lot of pain from being overlooked growing up due to all of this. We're happy and successful and we can no longer see our parents be abused anymore. We won't attend if the bad sibling is there. I just can't watch family members I love be abused, nor let my children see that either. It's too dysfunctional for me to be around anymore. Every few years I try and send an olive branch to sibling, but they basically just burn it in my face. Fool me once...

Anonymous wrote:To restate the question: I have a child who is struggling and has been for a long time. I understandably am tired or dealing with the challenges of this difficult child when my other children are easier. Can I exclude the difficult child who has been struggling in life for a long time from our family vacation and still be a good mom?

I think you sit them down, and tell them:

1. You will always love them.
2. That after years of trying hard to manage their behavior, everyone is tired of them, and would rather vacation without them at this time.
3. That you still love them and want to support them, and are therefore ready to pay for a neuropyschological evaluation, in order to see if there is a diagnosable disorder that can be treated. It can be 3-6K, depending on where they live and what tests are included.
4. And that you will pay for all treatments that work, such as meds or targeted therapy (not general therapy without a diagnosis), if they comply with the prescribed regimen.
5. That all the family loves them and is happy to include them again in the future, if they improve their behavior.