Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Obviously it suits you to disregard my opinion and that of my immediate colleagues and that's more than fine. I know who I am and where I work and how worthy I am to have earned a Ph.D. and the title of Associate Professor. Take Care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Wow. I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude. I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle. One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it. They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change. It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP. You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth. Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Anonymous wrote:Been told by our college counselor that this year colleges are turning away from selecting most private high school kids because of their privileged education. That you now have a better chance coming from a public high school with good grades and top scores and activities. There’s no advantage anymore paying more money for private. None at all.

So for those of you looking to go private, don’t waste your money. Your private school kid, despite top gpa and test scores, will probably will be bumped in favor of someone from a good public school.

Regrets, regrets, regrets…

Perhaps. I don't have anything other than anecdotal evidence, but from what I've seen I would say the opposite is true.

One of my kids is graduating from a private (Catholic) school this year. His grades and SAT scores are nearly identical to those of another student who attends public school (FCPS) and whose family we are friends with. Our kids applied to several of the same schools and our kid was accepted at most of them while their kid was not accepted at any of them (UVA, VT, W&M, etc.). It was a head-scratcher for us given that both are good students with great GPAs and nearly identical SAT scores; both have extracurricular activities outside of school that in my view are comparable. It's been somewhat awkward to commiserate with my friends about their kid being rejected from schools that my kid was accepted into.

The only thing that came to mind for me was that given all the grade inflation taking place, especially in public schools (e.g., even skipping assignments gets you a 50% score, focus on ensuring "equity" of outcomes etc.) perhaps the GPA from FCPS doesn't look "as good" as the same GPA from a more academically rigorous private school. I don't know whether or how college admissions departments try to factor those differences in when they're comparing candidate students with similar GPAs.

It's possible that essay questions made the difference, although (1) the "essays" these days are all very brief short-answer type questions and (2) to be honest, I didn't think my kid's essay question answers were anything special---so it's hard to believe that made the difference for several universities.

Anyway, our anecdotal experience is the exact opposite -- our student from an area private was accepted at several schools where a seemingly equivalent student from an area public was rejected. While I'm open to the possibility that it was random luck, the fact that it happened at multiple schools even where my kid was applying for a more selective major (e.g., my kid was accepted into engineering at VT, where our friends' kid was applying for business) leads to me believe it was something other than luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say going to an elite high school matters more than the specific college. Their college options will be fine.

Yes! Exactly. Because you’re ultra entitled. Which is exactly why colleges aren’t taking your kids anymore. Because their private pedigree is meaningless and non indicative to their drive, or future success, or their ability to be a good community member.

We are not private and would only go private for 1. Special needs issues, safety issues, I.e. necessity 2. Get my kid into a good college

Anyone who pays $160k+ in tuition over years of private education with perfectly fine public alternatives and says they don’t care about the college their kid gets into is lying to themselves and puffing feathers on an anonymous board.

Of course you care. Because even if you are just so self centered and private school is “a way of life”, you’re at least concerned of being judged yourself based on your kids outplacement.

You are delusional if you think elite colleges aren’t taking kids from elite high schools in greater numbers proportionate to their populations.

The PP who thinks the top students at West Potomac are equivalent to the top students at STA or Sidwell is highly delusional.

Not because the kids aren’t equally intelligent but because they are not given the same challenges. The only public school in the area that provides a similar level of challenge is Thomas Jefferson.

Sadly, even TJ’s standards are deteriorating. Kind of like how Fairfax public schools used to be the gold standard for public education in the DMV 20 years ago and now they are at about the same level as Arlington.

Your observations are based on what?

I think you are delusional if you think the top students at solid public schools are not challenged.

I actually think it is the top students for whom private school offers little advantage. It's the bright but not stellar students who benefit most from the personal attention (aka coddling) of private school.

It’s very evident you don’t know much about education.

I know Fairfax County public schools rather well and think it’s a tragedy what’s happened to the system. 20 years ago I would have sent my kids there with no concerns. Now? Nope. MCPS is even worse off.

Blame NCLB, decades of bad education policies and poor fiscal management.

My kids attend Big 3s. They’re not perfect either but still provide a significantly better education particularly with regard to critical thinking and writing. Math is on par with public or weaker depending on which schools you’re comparing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

This is a very helpful perspective. Genuine question, do the Admission Office share your view? If so, are they adjusting their evaluation criteria?

With regards to AP courses, admissions offices do seem to be listening to faculty. To my knowledge however there's been no adjustments yet at my university. However, it's been in the news over the past few years that some colleges and universities are considering no longer accepting AP course just as it's been in the news that some high schools both public and private are seeking to do away with them. I would just stay tuned on this.

With regards to those admits who hold a job during high school, admissions would never adjust their criteria based on something this specific. This simply falls under the larger umbrella of really looking at the big picture of an applicant. I'm simply offering this to the parents that participate on this board - working during high school (not just summers) builds skills that equate to being successful in college.

Thank you. I worked part-time and summer during high school. We’re planning to have our DD do the same for the life experience and appreciation of hard work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”

I’ve sent my kids to both public and private. Educate your children at the best school fit for them that does not place undue financial burden on the family.

Everything has a price. The cost of a guaranteed admission to the T20 schools is not $500k for K-12. It’s $20m for a building wing. Or athletic genetics and countless hours. Not sure why you thought your $500k entitled you to more. Cake and eat it too? Get in line.

Harsh? Sure. But accurate. This should not be news to you. I hope your child got an excellent education. They will likely be well prepared for the next step. And if they are worth their salt, they will take that T1-100 opportunity and light it up. The only thing stopping them from being as successful as the kid at MIT? Their parent’s bad attitude. Don’t let your kid the drivel coming out of your mouth. It doesn’t help them.

This exactly. We send our DC to private schools because we believe it is the right fit and choice for them and our family, not because we think it is a hook to a top college. The folks who think that paying for private will buy them access to a T20 school are fools.

+1
Well said.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

This is a very helpful perspective. Genuine question, do the Admission Office share your view? If so, are they adjusting their evaluation criteria?

With regards to AP courses, admissions offices do seem to be listening to faculty. To my knowledge however there's been no adjustments yet at my university. However, it's been in the news over the past few years that some colleges and universities are considering no longer accepting AP course just as it's been in the news that some high schools both public and private are seeking to do away with them. I would just stay tuned on this.

With regards to those admits who hold a job during high school, admissions would never adjust their criteria based on something this specific. This simply falls under the larger umbrella of really looking at the big picture of an applicant. I'm simply offering this to the parents that participate on this board - working during high school (not just summers) builds skills that equate to being successful in college.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

This is a very helpful perspective. Genuine question, do the Admission Office share your view? If so, are they adjusting their evaluation criteria?

I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

Anonymous wrote:I sent my kid to a feeder school for top Catholic universities like Notre Dame, Georgetown, and BC. Kid got into all three. Mission accomplished.

Kid's first choice was ND. ND does not admit many at all from the top publics in our area -- in fact the admit rate from these schools is way below their actual admit rate.

Notre Dame Acceptance Rate:
Bethesda area publics: 5% (source Bethesda Magazine)
Actual overall: 9% (source google)
Our private school: 33% (source Scoir)

Boston College Acceptance Rate:
Bethesda area publics: 18%
Actual overall: 13%
Our private school: 38%

Georgetown Acceptance Rate:
Bethesda area publics: 23%
Actual overall: 12%
Our private school: 43%

No school is going to have a 43% acceptance rate to Georgetown. This is BS.

Sidwell did extremely well this year. 25% to ivy plus, half go to T20. Wouldn't complain.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say going to an elite high school matters more than the specific college. Their college options will be fine.

Yes! Exactly. Because you’re ultra entitled. Which is exactly why colleges aren’t taking your kids anymore. Because their private pedigree is meaningless and non indicative to their drive, or future success, or their ability to be a good community member.

We are not private and would only go private for 1. Special needs issues, safety issues, I.e. necessity 2. Get my kid into a good college

Anyone who pays $160k+ in tuition over years of private education with perfectly fine public alternatives and says they don’t care about the college their kid gets into is lying to themselves and puffing feathers on an anonymous board.

Of course you care. Because even if you are just so self centered and private school is “a way of life”, you’re at least concerned of being judged yourself based on your kids outplacement.

You are delusional if you think elite colleges aren’t taking kids from elite high schools in greater numbers proportionate to their populations.

The PP who thinks the top students at West Potomac are equivalent to the top students at STA or Sidwell is highly delusional.

Not because the kids aren’t equally intelligent but because they are not given the same challenges. The only public school in the area that provides a similar level of challenge is Thomas Jefferson.

Sadly, even TJ’s standards are deteriorating. Kind of like how Fairfax public schools used to be the gold standard for public education in the DMV 20 years ago and now they are at about the same level as Arlington.

Nah, we see it every year. The top students at the public schools run circles around the top students at the private schools in the DMV.
Fact.

No you don’t. You’re a public school parent lying on a private school thread. Stop lying, interloper.

I know facts hurt!

Facts? Nah, your bitter baseless opinions don’t hurt at all. You’re like an annoying gnat—you don’t belong here. Post your rantings in the public school forum for the masses to read.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say going to an elite high school matters more than the specific college. Their college options will be fine.

Yes! Exactly. Because you’re ultra entitled. Which is exactly why colleges aren’t taking your kids anymore. Because their private pedigree is meaningless and non indicative to their drive, or future success, or their ability to be a good community member.

We are not private and would only go private for 1. Special needs issues, safety issues, I.e. necessity 2. Get my kid into a good college

Anyone who pays $160k+ in tuition over years of private education with perfectly fine public alternatives and says they don’t care about the college their kid gets into is lying to themselves and puffing feathers on an anonymous board.

Of course you care. Because even if you are just so self centered and private school is “a way of life”, you’re at least concerned of being judged yourself based on your kids outplacement.

Not the PP you’re addressing but for many families, spending $50K/year for their child’s private education is a non-issue. I know you find that entitled and hard to comprehend, but it’s real. For a BigLaw, Lobbying, or Consulting Partner making $1M-$3M/yr, this is immaterial. Others pay for it through inheritance or trusts.

I care a lot about what college my child will attend. But I didn’t send her to private so that it increased her chances of getting into an elite. My love and admiration for her won’t change because she attended a non-elite.

I send her to private so that she gets a well-rounded education that prepares her to succeed at any college she chooses to attend. At private, she gets the attention and support that her public teachers didn’t have time nor resources to provide. At private, she doesn’t have to worry about school violence or chronic class disruptors.

It is well know, too, that public school kids are not at all well prepared for college. That is why MCPS is completely revamping their grading system, which currently only enables severe mediocrity.

https://www.sourceofthespring.com/montgomery-county-news/2837171/montgomery-countys-grading-shift-sparks-questions-about-college-readiness/

https://montgomeryperspective.com/2024/04/01/mcpss-shocking-performance-on-college-and-career-readiness/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say going to an elite high school matters more than the specific college. Their college options will be fine.

Yes! Exactly. Because you’re ultra entitled. Which is exactly why colleges aren’t taking your kids anymore. Because their private pedigree is meaningless and non indicative to their drive, or future success, or their ability to be a good community member.

We are not private and would only go private for 1. Special needs issues, safety issues, I.e. necessity 2. Get my kid into a good college

Anyone who pays $160k+ in tuition over years of private education with perfectly fine public alternatives and says they don’t care about the college their kid gets into is lying to themselves and puffing feathers on an anonymous board.

Of course you care. Because even if you are just so self centered and private school is “a way of life”, you’re at least concerned of being judged yourself based on your kids outplacement.

Not the PP you’re addressing but for many families, spending $50K/year for their child’s private education is a non-issue. I know you find that entitled and hard to comprehend, but it’s real. For a BigLaw, Lobbying, or Consulting Partner making $1M-$3M/yr, this is immaterial. Others pay for it through inheritance or trusts.

I care a lot about what college my child will attend. But I didn’t send her to private so that it increased her chances of getting into an elite. My love and admiration for her won’t change because she attended a non-elite.

I send her to private so that she gets a well-rounded education that prepares her to succeed at any college she chooses to attend. At private, she gets the attention and support that her public teachers didn’t have time nor resources to provide. At private, she doesn’t have to worry about school violence or chronic class disruptors.