Anonymous wrote:I'm so torn on this one. Helping pass the CR feels like such an unforced error for the democrats, but a government shutdown could legitimize a lot of Trump's actions (like deciding who to send home indefinitely) that are currently illegal and being challenged in the courts. There are no good options, and the choice that has the most emotional appeal (block the CR) carries with it a strong likelihood of increased lawlessness. Can someone persuade me that blocking the CR won't be an even worse sh!t show?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shutting down the government actually gives Musk more power to permanently fire people. The Dems are in a bad place and I think Schumer is right. It sucks that the republicans are destroying this country. Let’s stop blaming the Dems. That’s what they want us to.

From NYT article:

“The Republican bill is a terrible option,” Mr. Schumer said in his evening speech. “It is deeply partisan. It doesn’t address far too many of this country’s needs. But I believe allowing Donald Trump to take even much more power via a government shutdown is a far worse option.”

In a shutdown, Mr. Schumer said, “the Trump administration would have full authority to deem whole agencies, programs and personnel nonessential, furloughing staff with no promise that they would ever be rehired.”

He also warned that if the government closed, Mr. Trump and Republicans would have no incentive to reopen it, since they could selectively fund “their favorite departments and agencies, while leaving other vital services that they don’t like to languish.”

It's because of this. Schumer is right. AOC is immature and wrong.

+1

Thsi is chilling- it never even occurred to me that they would permenanently shut it all down on purpose. Maybe Schumer realized this b/c he is jewish and is more sensitive to how fascists operate and AOC (and I) are niave b/c we cant concieve of sonething like this. Im so afraid now that citizenship granted to immigrants and those born here after 1965 will be rescinded. I am at risk of becoming stateless.

Sure it a real but vague possibility. But do you think all the republicans and folks who voted Republican want that?

Anonymous wrote:I'm so torn on this one. Helping pass the CR feels like such an unforced error for the democrats, but a government shutdown could legitimize a lot of Trump's actions (like deciding who to send home indefinitely) that are currently illegal and being challenged in the courts. There are no good options, and the choice that has the most emotional appeal (block the CR) carries with it a strong likelihood of increased lawlessness. Can someone persuade me that blocking the CR won't be an even worse sh!t show?

Anonymous wrote:I'm so torn on this one. Helping pass the CR feels like such an unforced error for the democrats, but a government shutdown could legitimize a lot of Trump's actions (like deciding who to send home indefinitely) that are currently illegal and being challenged in the courts. There are no good options, and the choice that has the most emotional appeal (block the CR) carries with it a strong likelihood of increased lawlessness. Can someone persuade me that blocking the CR won't be an even worse sh!t show?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shutting down the government actually gives Musk more power to permanently fire people. The Dems are in a bad place and I think Schumer is right. It sucks that the republicans are destroying this country. Let’s stop blaming the Dems. That’s what they want us to.

From NYT article:

“The Republican bill is a terrible option,” Mr. Schumer said in his evening speech. “It is deeply partisan. It doesn’t address far too many of this country’s needs. But I believe allowing Donald Trump to take even much more power via a government shutdown is a far worse option.”

In a shutdown, Mr. Schumer said, “the Trump administration would have full authority to deem whole agencies, programs and personnel nonessential, furloughing staff with no promise that they would ever be rehired.”

He also warned that if the government closed, Mr. Trump and Republicans would have no incentive to reopen it, since they could selectively fund “their favorite departments and agencies, while leaving other vital services that they don’t like to languish.”

It's because of this. Schumer is right. AOC is immature and wrong.

+1

Thsi is chilling- it never even occurred to me that they would permenanently shut it all down on purpose. Maybe Schumer realized this b/c he is jewish and is more sensitive to how fascists operate and AOC (and I) are niave b/c we cant concieve of sonething like this. Im so afraid now that citizenship granted to immigrants and those born here after 1965 will be rescinded. I am at risk of becoming stateless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shutting down the government actually gives Musk more power to permanently fire people. The Dems are in a bad place and I think Schumer is right. It sucks that the republicans are destroying this country. Let’s stop blaming the Dems. That’s what they want us to.

From NYT article:

“The Republican bill is a terrible option,” Mr. Schumer said in his evening speech. “It is deeply partisan. It doesn’t address far too many of this country’s needs. But I believe allowing Donald Trump to take even much more power via a government shutdown is a far worse option.”

In a shutdown, Mr. Schumer said, “the Trump administration would have full authority to deem whole agencies, programs and personnel nonessential, furloughing staff with no promise that they would ever be rehired.”

He also warned that if the government closed, Mr. Trump and Republicans would have no incentive to reopen it, since they could selectively fund “their favorite departments and agencies, while leaving other vital services that they don’t like to languish.”

It's because of this. Schumer is right. AOC is immature and wrong.

+1

Anonymous wrote:I'm so torn on this one. Helping pass the CR feels like such an unforced error for the democrats, but a government shutdown could legitimize a lot of Trump's actions (like deciding who to send home indefinitely) that are currently illegal and being challenged in the courts. There are no good options, and the choice that has the most emotional appeal (block the CR) carries with it a strong likelihood of increased lawlessness. Can someone persuade me that blocking the CR won't be an even worse sh!t show?

Anonymous wrote:My worry is if they approve the CR, then they legitimize DOGE, which means courts would no longer say DOGE is doing anything illegal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the actual question faced by the Dems:

If you vote for the CR, you vote for a bill that's a corrupted version of the Biden CR (many more social service cuts esp for DC + much more money for military). You are essentially voting to help the GOP get what they want and give them complete control - suggesting that Dems have zero power. It's a complete a utter show of disrespect from the GOP the Dems are accepting.

BUT - if you vote to reject CR -
You vote to shut down the US govt and while essential services should still run, there's plenty of workers who will be affected. Moreover - and the biggest legit concern is that tech speaking, while the "all" the govt is shut down, Trump + allies can make a solid case of why we can have a smaller govt. You give him all the leverage he needs to keep the govt shut down and you give him carte blanche to develop whatever he wants as a "new" form of govt. Effectively, you give him exactly what he's always wanted - the power to remake US govt however he wants.

So - which way do you all really want things to be? This is not business as usual where we shut down and return to negotiate to get govt back running. This is a matter of keeping our govt as damaged as it is or shuttering what we have today as it will be replaced by the Trump govt in full capacity once he's gotten rid of this damaged one, but still one run by 2 parties and a "legit" one.

You do realize that Trump can (and is) do this anyway, right? In some cases they’re doing it illegally (USAID) but he can’t just decide to reopen some offices/agencies. Congress has to fund them. The executive branch can reorganize, but to do it legally, Congress would have to approve it. The things y’all are afraid Trump won’t reopen, he will just close later if he wants to. Departments turned in plans this week to reduce workforce - ED was ahead of the curve but there will be massive cuts and reorganization everywhere. There was no win for Dems here but this CR is the bigger loss. It gives credibility to Trump dismantling the government.