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Anonymous wrote:We were told schools like Case Western and Tulane often defer EA applicants. Do, we intentionally 'demonstrated interest' by attending info sessions (online and on person when possible), opening all email, etc. My kid also reached out to academic departments with legit questions about curriculum, research, etc. Accepted at both with merit.

THis ^^^

You just need to convince them "you are my #1 choice, not a safety". It doesn't take much, but if you do that, you will likely get admitted.

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Anonymous wrote:In a few weeks, a whole lot of people here will claim that every school that denied their kid was doing it.

Yep. Happens every year, like clockwork. Some parents (and their kids) truly believe they're entitled to admission to pretty much any school. When it doesn't happen, they're shocked and claim "yield protection." Never fails.

This might be true but yield management is real. If yield management is not a thing, colleges would not be paying so much money to consultants to increase their yields. The main reason demonstrated interest exists is for yield management.

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Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Purported "high stats" kids use lower-tier schools as safeties and have no intention of matriculating there if accepted. It goes both ways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a few weeks, a whole lot of people here will claim that every school that denied their kid was doing it.

Yep. Happens every year, like clockwork. Some parents (and their kids) truly believe they're entitled to admission to pretty much any school. When it doesn't happen, they're shocked and claim "yield protection." Never fails.

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Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

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Anonymous wrote:There is no convincing proof that any school does yield protection but DCUM parents cling to this “explanation” for their kid getting rejected.

Well, if you look in SCOIR scattergrams for some colleges (ie U Miami) where the top quadrant kids are all deferred/waitlisted and those with lower stats are accepted, it feels a lot like yield protection.

Scattergrams based on two very limited criteria (GPA and SAT/ACT) are not showing you the whole picture of the applicant and you can't draw conclusions about "yield protection" from them. You don't know what those "lower stats" kids had that the "higher stats" kids didn't have that allowed the former to get accepted - URM, athlete, legacy. musician, could be a lot of things the college wanted that wasn't just "raw stats" based.

Nope--for our HS (small enough to now know who each point represents), U Miami rejected the kids now at top 25's and accepted wealthy kids with much lower stats (not athletes, legacy, musicians, but very wealthy)--you can see this trend year over year. The trouble with applying to yield protection schools from expensive private schools is that they know you could afford to ED if it was truly your top choice. Especially for the ED2 round. Not sure why you are arguing a concept college counselors will agree upon--yield protection is definitely a thing--especially demonstrated by the schools taking a large percentage of kids via ED (Tulane is notorious for this).

It is. The other thing is, the counselors at our school know some AOs very well. They know which of their kids are using certain schools as safeties. They have met with the kids and families a bunch of times prior to applying and throughout the process. Sally may already know she's going to Georgetown first, then BC and a then Villanova in that order. Jimmy is ND or bust, Villanova and then, ,, you get the point. They are going to work to get each kid into the school of their choice and best fit. It's a 2-way street. They know each year relative numbers of admits at these schools and they know which kids are legacy, athletes and likely to get in, etc. So, yes, I can see why a kid might be WL somewhere because they know he/she isn't likely to yield.

This also sounds super fair and maybe the subject of a further Varsity Blues type documentary.

The real issue with yield protection is that you have the high stats kids not winning the lottery at the “elite” schools and then also getting locked out of next tier down.

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Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

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Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

My kid got into Pomona, Hopkins, Swarthmore, Dartmouth, Georgetown and Brown.

WL at Villanova and Tufts.

My kid got into Tufts, Georgetown, and Pomono and WL and weightlisted at Dartmouth. Rejected from Brown.

So, it's very hard to know--depends on so many factors.

Sorry, as a Tufts grad, I'll tell you that Tufts, Georgetown, and Pomona are less selective than either Dartmouth or Brown. That's not yield protection. Evidence of yield protection would be if kid were accepted at Dartmouth and Brown and waitlisted at Tufts.

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Anonymous wrote:Getting rejected is Not girls protection.

Schools want to admit students who will attend. They need c students to enroll in the fall. So yes if they think you are using them as a safety or most likely have resume for a higher ranked school and don't really want to attend, they might wl or reject you. If they are really your first choice you show them that and you might get admitted

For ex case western, they know that many who apply have the resume for T25. If they accept all of those kids they won't have enough students in the fall. Seriously even of those who end up attending at least 50% + are only there because they did NOT get into the 3-4 T25 they applied to.

But if case is your top choice, let them know they will give you your fa and merit estimates and you can ED 2.

And if it's not your top choice, well then they were accurate in assuming you might not attend. So yup you may not get admitted

Assuming you meant "not yield protection", what you have described is exactly yield protection. Schools don't have to do this--ie Pitt takes both the high stats kids and those with lower stats and has a lower yield.

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Anonymous wrote:Getting rejected is Not girls protection.

Schools want to admit students who will attend. They need c students to enroll in the fall. So yes if they think you are using them as a safety or most likely have resume for a higher ranked school and don't really want to attend, they might wl or reject you. If they are really your first choice you show them that and you might get admitted

For ex case western, they know that many who apply have the resume for T25. If they accept all of those kids they won't have enough students in the fall. Seriously even of those who end up attending at least 50% + are only there because they did NOT get into the 3-4 T25 they applied to.

But if case is your top choice, let them know they will give you your fa and merit estimates and you can ED 2.

And if it's not your top choice, well then they were accurate in assuming you might not attend. So yup you may not get admitted

This process you are describing is yield protection. If a school wasn’t trying to protect its yield, they could admit every qualified applicant. Sure, only x% would attend, but that’s ok—just admit enough applicants that x% gives you the number you need for your freshman class.

Anonymous wrote:We were told schools like Case Western and Tulane often defer EA applicants. Do, we intentionally 'demonstrated interest' by attending info sessions (online and on person when possible), opening all email, etc. My kid also reached out to academic departments with legit questions about curriculum, research, etc. Accepted at both with merit.

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Anonymous wrote:When is the whole "enrollment cliff" supposed to happen? Aren't admissions going to get easier in the next few years?

Yes, so Harvard’s acceptance rate will go from 5% to 6%.

That’s a joke.

The enrollment cliff is already happening. It’s won’t affect big name schools. It will mean small schools will get more aggressive with marketing and yield. It will mean some small schools close. We are already seeing that.

No. 2007 was the largest birth year in American history. Most of those kids are part of the HS class of 2025. This year is peak.

But there’s still subsequent drops from the test required reintegration

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Anonymous wrote:When is the whole "enrollment cliff" supposed to happen? Aren't admissions going to get easier in the next few years?

Yes, so Harvard’s acceptance rate will go from 5% to 6%.

That’s a joke.

The enrollment cliff is already happening. It’s won’t affect big name schools. It will mean small schools will get more aggressive with marketing and yield. It will mean some small schools close. We are already seeing that.

No. 2007 was the largest birth year in American history. Most of those kids are part of the HS class of 2025. This year is peak.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When is the whole "enrollment cliff" supposed to happen? Aren't admissions going to get easier in the next few years?

Yes, so Harvard’s acceptance rate will go from 5% to 6%.

That’s a joke.

The enrollment cliff is already happening. It’s won’t affect big name schools. It will mean small schools will get more aggressive with marketing and yield. It will mean some small schools close. We are already seeing that.