Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it would be helpful instead of talking about "CO positions" which few people actually know what that means, look at the change in numbers of positions for different categories of positions from FY21 to FY25 (as enrollment decreased)

"Executive" positions went from 18 in FY21 to 23 in FY25
"Administrative" positions went from 192 to 241 (yikes)
"Other professional" went from 201 to 263 (wow)
"Principal/Assistant Principal" went from 547 to 570 (why?)
"Special Education Specialist" went from 529 to 568 (totally supportive of this increase of 39 positions but it's appalling this increase is less than the increase in administrators)
"Psychologist" was basically flat (132 to 135)
"Social worker" - 35 to 81 (supportive of this, but why are administrative positions increasing by more than the social workers?)
All positions - 23,396 to 24,447 - that's a lot more people serving fewer students

Off the top of my head Inwould say and suspect the following:
-New schools opened,
-some schools that didn’t previously have an AP got one,
-needs of students increased over time and post pandemic,
- EML and newcomer population increases
-new projects like the HCM to overhaul systems,
-technology footprint and tech stack increased with pandemic,
-math and ELA coaches were added,
-more staffing being supplied by contractors so now you need people to help with coordination and communication.
- Ideally spreading out work across more people so they are supporting less schools meaning they can actually provide more attention, engagement, and support.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.

But it's not 3000, it's been said numerous times many of those assigned to co are already in schools.

What does it mean to be "in schools"? They're non instructional staff. What do they do?

As said earlier in this thread, OTs, SLPs, Special Ed SWs, even the people who test newcomer students in schools, all these are assigned to CO when they are in multiple schools.

Therapeutic Counselors as well. But by all means cut all of these "extra" CO positions. Just don't cry about your kids not receiving their services later on.

I have had multiple Zoom calls with the "school-based" CO staff who support special education students. They are sitting in their homes and I am at school, staying late, to participate in these meetings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it would be helpful instead of talking about "CO positions" which few people actually know what that means, look at the change in numbers of positions for different categories of positions from FY21 to FY25 (as enrollment decreased)

"Executive" positions went from 18 in FY21 to 23 in FY25
"Administrative" positions went from 192 to 241 (yikes)
"Other professional" went from 201 to 263 (wow)
"Principal/Assistant Principal" went from 547 to 570 (why?)
"Special Education Specialist" went from 529 to 568 (totally supportive of this increase of 39 positions but it's appalling this increase is less than the increase in administrators)
"Psychologist" was basically flat (132 to 135)
"Social worker" - 35 to 81 (supportive of this, but why are administrative positions increasing by more than the social workers?)
All positions - 23,396 to 24,447 - that's a lot more people serving fewer students

Off the top of my head Inwould say and suspect the following:
-New schools opened,
-some schools that didn’t previously have an AP got one,
-needs of students increased over time and post pandemic,
- EML and newcomer population increases
-new projects like the HCM to overhaul systems,
-technology footprint and tech stack increased with pandemic,
-math and ELA coaches were added,
-more staffing being supplied by contractors so now you need people to help with coordination and communication.
- Ideally spreading out work across more people so they are supporting less schools meaning they can actually provide more attention, engagement, and support.

So not only has staff increased by more than 1,000 positions but they are also hiring more contractors?

Btw, regarding the "attention, engagement and support," that's not how many people would describe CO under McKnight's tenure. What I heard about was bureaucracy and bullying.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it would be helpful instead of talking about "CO positions" which few people actually know what that means, look at the change in numbers of positions for different categories of positions from FY21 to FY25 (as enrollment decreased)

"Executive" positions went from 18 in FY21 to 23 in FY25
"Administrative" positions went from 192 to 241 (yikes)
"Other professional" went from 201 to 263 (wow)
"Principal/Assistant Principal" went from 547 to 570 (why?)
"Special Education Specialist" went from 529 to 568 (totally supportive of this increase of 39 positions but it's appalling this increase is less than the increase in administrators)
"Psychologist" was basically flat (132 to 135)
"Social worker" - 35 to 81 (supportive of this, but why are administrative positions increasing by more than the social workers?)
All positions - 23,396 to 24,447 - that's a lot more people serving fewer students

Off the top of my head Inwould say and suspect the following:
-New schools opened,
-some schools that didn’t previously have an AP got one,
-needs of students increased over time and post pandemic,
- EML and newcomer population increases
-new projects like the HCM to overhaul systems,
-technology footprint and tech stack increased with pandemic,
-math and ELA coaches were added,
-more staffing being supplied by contractors so now you need people to help with coordination and communication.
- Ideally spreading out work across more people so they are supporting less schools meaning they can actually provide more attention, engagement, and support.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it would be helpful instead of talking about "CO positions" which few people actually know what that means, look at the change in numbers of positions for different categories of positions from FY21 to FY25 (as enrollment decreased)

"Executive" positions went from 18 in FY21 to 23 in FY25
"Administrative" positions went from 192 to 241 (yikes)
"Other professional" went from 201 to 263 (wow)
"Principal/Assistant Principal" went from 547 to 570 (why?)
"Special Education Specialist" went from 529 to 568 (totally supportive of this increase of 39 positions but it's appalling this increase is less than the increase in administrators)
"Psychologist" was basically flat (132 to 135)
"Social worker" - 35 to 81 (supportive of this, but why are administrative positions increasing by more than the social workers?)
All positions - 23,396 to 24,447 - that's a lot more people serving fewer students

Thanks. How do we get more granular information about what these positions are?

I'm just looking at Table 5 in the budget books. You'd have to ask someone in CO for this information. I'm sure they'll be happy to share detailed information on this topic with you .

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it would be helpful instead of talking about "CO positions" which few people actually know what that means, look at the change in numbers of positions for different categories of positions from FY21 to FY25 (as enrollment decreased)

"Executive" positions went from 18 in FY21 to 23 in FY25
"Administrative" positions went from 192 to 241 (yikes)
"Other professional" went from 201 to 263 (wow)
"Principal/Assistant Principal" went from 547 to 570 (why?)
"Special Education Specialist" went from 529 to 568 (totally supportive of this increase of 39 positions but it's appalling this increase is less than the increase in administrators)
"Psychologist" was basically flat (132 to 135)
"Social worker" - 35 to 81 (supportive of this, but why are administrative positions increasing by more than the social workers?)
All positions - 23,396 to 24,447 - that's a lot more people serving fewer students

Thanks. How do we get more granular information about what these positions are?

"Other support personnel" ("business/fiscal, technology, human resources, communications, printing and other support staff") went from 243 in FY21 to 329 in FY25. Something is rotten here.

Adding that it's bonkers that we have so many more positions, fewer students and class sizes went up?!?! Wtaf.

Maybe it would be helpful instead of talking about "CO positions" which few people actually know what that means, look at the change in numbers of positions for different categories of positions from FY21 to FY25 (as enrollment decreased)

"Executive" positions went from 18 in FY21 to 23 in FY25
"Administrative" positions went from 192 to 241 (yikes)
"Other professional" went from 201 to 263 (wow)
"Principal/Assistant Principal" went from 547 to 570 (why?)
"Special Education Specialist" went from 529 to 568 (totally supportive of this increase of 39 positions but it's appalling this increase is less than the increase in administrators)
"Psychologist" was basically flat (132 to 135)
"Social worker" - 35 to 81 (supportive of this, but why are administrative positions increasing by more than the social workers?)
All positions - 23,396 to 24,447 - that's a lot more people serving fewer students

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.

But it's not 3000, it's been said numerous times many of those assigned to co are already in schools.

What does it mean to be "in schools"? They're non instructional staff. What do they do?

As said earlier in this thread, OTs, SLPs, Special Ed SWs, even the people who test newcomer students in schools, all these are assigned to CO when they are in multiple schools.

Therapeutic Counselors as well. But by all means cut all of these "extra" CO positions. Just don't cry about your kids not receiving their services later on.

This is the thing, so it sounds like the category of "CO" positions is extremely opaque. Why do you screech like this at people who ask questions and then whine when taxpayers are averse to increasing taxes? You don't want transparency and you don't want people to ask questions. So don't ask for a 9% increase from taxpayers.

Btw many kids with needs are already not receiving services, so those threats land kind of empty for many of us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.

But it's not 3000, it's been said numerous times many of those assigned to co are already in schools.

What does it mean to be "in schools"? They're non instructional staff. What do they do?

As said earlier in this thread, OTs, SLPs, Special Ed SWs, even the people who test newcomer students in schools, all these are assigned to CO when they are in multiple schools.

Therapeutic Counselors as well. But by all means cut all of these "extra" CO positions. Just don't cry about your kids not receiving their services later on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.

But it's not 3000, it's been said numerous times many of those assigned to co are already in schools.

What does it mean to be "in schools"? They're non instructional staff. What do they do?

As said earlier in this thread, OTs, SLPs, Special Ed SWs, even the people who test newcomer students in schools, all these are assigned to CO when they are in multiple schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.

But it's not 3000, it's been said numerous times many of those assigned to co are already in schools.

What does it mean to be "in schools"? They're non instructional staff. What do they do?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.

But it's not 3000, it's been said numerous times many of those assigned to co are already in schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For context, Marriott has hundreds of thousands of employees at thousands of locations worldwide and has 5,000 staff at headquarters. MCPS has 200 schools and change and 25,000 employees of which nearly 3,000 are at CO. Pure bloat.

Not saying there isn't bloat, but it would be important to know how many of those "at CO" are the types of administrators we might consider bloat, vs. those who are organizationally seated at CO but either are at schools for instructional/operational support or are the lower-level CO-types whom we (or the bulk of us) tend to consider essential for the system to operate at scale. The Merriott comparison may not be valid without that detail.

Obviously, Marriott is not a public school system. We can all point to numerous important distinctions between these organizations. But it's telling Marriott can handle operating 9,000 locations across the world, subject to a variety of different laws and legal systems, with 5,000 staff at headquarters. And MCPS somehow needs almost 3,000 non-instructional staff assigned to CO for 210 schools? It strains credulity.