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Anonymous wrote:My kids have had amazing teachers who tend to be popular and well supported by parents, and terrible teachers who tend to be unpopular with students and parents. It’s like that at least in my kids’ schools. I’ve learned to be ready to jump in to supplement and—in extreme circumstances—unenroll them.

Mcps teacher pay seems generous the longer you work, so not feeling too sorry for them in that respect.

Is it still good pay if they are working 65 hours a week? With few breaks during the school day? And little flexibility when it comes to time off?

“Generous” is quite a word to use.

Teachers get more time off than the traditional workforce. Everyone knows this, fool.

Me:
65 hours a week x 40 weeks = 2600 hours

My “traditional workforce” DH:
40 hours a week x 50 weeks = 2000 hours

I’m not sure how math works for you, but my “foolish” math shows me working far more than my DH.

What I know, foolish as I am, is that my full year of work is compacted into 10 packed months with limited flexibility.

But you are so much wiser than me, so I guess math works differently for you.

You aren’t working 65 hours per week and certainly not regularly, lying liar.

I know it’s easier to degrade me when you think I’m lazy.

I grade essays. Stacks of them. Since I haven’t figured out magic yet, I actually have to read and comment on each one.

So, figuring 50 essays at 15 minutes each, that’s 12.5 hours of grading for that assignment alone. And I have 90 additional students turning in paragraphs for an additional 7.5 hours of grading. So that’s 20 hours of grading. I also have to plan, meet with students, email parents, attend grade level meetings, and occasionally come up for air.

And I repeat this cycle every 2-3 weeks.

So please don’t tell me about my job. If you haven’t taught, you simply don’t know. You. Don’t. Know.

And?
These aren’t outside of a teacher’s responsibility.
I have to read legal documents, edit, file, re-edit often, file again. This cycle is repeated daily. Meet with clients, attend meetings, plan, travel, and occasionally come up for air.
You are not special.

I’m sure you have more than 45 minutes a day to do this task. After I have pointless meetings and go to the bathroom, I might get 5 minutes a day without students in my classroom to grade. On a good day.

And you think teachers are the only employees to have pointless meetings? You’re out of touch.

My DH has lots of pointless meetings but that is his job. It isn’t taking the place of other work. The more pointless meetings they force teachers to attend, the less time they have to plan and grade and communicate with parents. We never used to have all of these meetings. Our planning time was our own. Now we tell about the same data from week to week because someone in the central office says we need to have twice a week data meetings.

And you don’t think this happens at other places of work? That teachers have the monopoly on worthless meetings that take up their work time hours?! You’re a fool.

Oh good… the “fool” poster is back. Does insulting people usually work for you?

You have posted multiple times telling teachers how good they have it. Why haven’t you applied? That’s a serious question. For the time you have invested trying to convince teachers they have it good, you could have gotten your resume together.

I have three more quitting my department at the end of the year. Join us. Seriously.

For the time you invested trying to convince me they don’t have it good, you could have gotten your resume together. Why haven’t you applied elsewhere? That’s a serious question.

Right now, I’m staying because I happen to be VERY GOOD at what I do. That doesn’t mean I appreciate being abused, and I tend to speak out when things are wrong.

I don’t need to leave. I need people who are ignorant of teacher working conditions to remain silent or come get some first-hand experience.

And I am aware of teacher’s work so don’t tell me to stay silent. I made it very clear that I worked at multiple schools. You can stay silent and I can tell you to leave if you don’t like your job.

This is an anonymous forum; therefore, you’ve made nothing “very clear.” And unless you have taught in those schools, taking the work home and being directly responsible for curricula, then do you really know?

And no, I won’t remain silent. I solve problems. The current problem is teacher shortages because of the conditions you refuse to accept as real.

You solve problem?! Ha! You aren’t solving the teacher shortage problem.
I have taught in schools, taken work home, so yeah, I know. You don’t know.

You’re doing a phenomenal job at solving problems!!!

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Anonymous wrote:My kids have had amazing teachers who tend to be popular and well supported by parents, and terrible teachers who tend to be unpopular with students and parents. It’s like that at least in my kids’ schools. I’ve learned to be ready to jump in to supplement and—in extreme circumstances—unenroll them.

Mcps teacher pay seems generous the longer you work, so not feeling too sorry for them in that respect.

Is it still good pay if they are working 65 hours a week? With few breaks during the school day? And little flexibility when it comes to time off?

“Generous” is quite a word to use.

Teachers get more time off than the traditional workforce. Everyone knows this, fool.

Me:
65 hours a week x 40 weeks = 2600 hours

My “traditional workforce” DH:
40 hours a week x 50 weeks = 2000 hours

I’m not sure how math works for you, but my “foolish” math shows me working far more than my DH.

What I know, foolish as I am, is that my full year of work is compacted into 10 packed months with limited flexibility.

But you are so much wiser than me, so I guess math works differently for you.

You aren’t working 65 hours per week and certainly not regularly, lying liar.

I know it’s easier to degrade me when you think I’m lazy.

I grade essays. Stacks of them. Since I haven’t figured out magic yet, I actually have to read and comment on each one.

So, figuring 50 essays at 15 minutes each, that’s 12.5 hours of grading for that assignment alone. And I have 90 additional students turning in paragraphs for an additional 7.5 hours of grading. So that’s 20 hours of grading. I also have to plan, meet with students, email parents, attend grade level meetings, and occasionally come up for air.

And I repeat this cycle every 2-3 weeks.

So please don’t tell me about my job. If you haven’t taught, you simply don’t know. You. Don’t. Know.

And?
These aren’t outside of a teacher’s responsibility.
I have to read legal documents, edit, file, re-edit often, file again. This cycle is repeated daily. Meet with clients, attend meetings, plan, travel, and occasionally come up for air.
You are not special.

I’m sure you have more than 45 minutes a day to do this task. After I have pointless meetings and go to the bathroom, I might get 5 minutes a day without students in my classroom to grade. On a good day.

And you think teachers are the only employees to have pointless meetings? You’re out of touch.

My DH has lots of pointless meetings but that is his job. It isn’t taking the place of other work. The more pointless meetings they force teachers to attend, the less time they have to plan and grade and communicate with parents. We never used to have all of these meetings. Our planning time was our own. Now we tell about the same data from week to week because someone in the central office says we need to have twice a week data meetings.

And you don’t think this happens at other places of work? That teachers have the monopoly on worthless meetings that take up their work time hours?! You’re a fool.

Oh good… the “fool” poster is back. Does insulting people usually work for you?

You have posted multiple times telling teachers how good they have it. Why haven’t you applied? That’s a serious question. For the time you have invested trying to convince teachers they have it good, you could have gotten your resume together.

I have three more quitting my department at the end of the year. Join us. Seriously.

For the time you invested trying to convince me they don’t have it good, you could have gotten your resume together. Why haven’t you applied elsewhere? That’s a serious question.

Right now, I’m staying because I happen to be VERY GOOD at what I do. That doesn’t mean I appreciate being abused, and I tend to speak out when things are wrong.

I don’t need to leave. I need people who are ignorant of teacher working conditions to remain silent or come get some first-hand experience.

And I am aware of teacher’s work so don’t tell me to stay silent. I made it very clear that I worked at multiple schools. You can stay silent and I can tell you to leave if you don’t like your job.

This is an anonymous forum; therefore, you’ve made nothing “very clear.” And unless you have taught in those schools, taking the work home and being directly responsible for curricula, then do you really know?

And no, I won’t remain silent. I solve problems. The current problem is teacher shortages because of the conditions you refuse to accept as real.

You solve problem?! Ha! You aren’t solving the teacher shortage problem.
I have taught in schools, taken work home, so yeah, I know. You don’t know.

You taught. That’s past tense. So you also contributed to the teacher shortage. What was it about the job that made you leave?

It’s clear the job wasn’t able to keep you, either. So why are you picking on teachers for doing the same thing as you?

Honey, I moved and had a baby this year. Is that okay with you since you seem to think that you can dictate my life?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My kids have had amazing teachers who tend to be popular and well supported by parents, and terrible teachers who tend to be unpopular with students and parents. It’s like that at least in my kids’ schools. I’ve learned to be ready to jump in to supplement and—in extreme circumstances—unenroll them.

Mcps teacher pay seems generous the longer you work, so not feeling too sorry for them in that respect.

Is it still good pay if they are working 65 hours a week? With few breaks during the school day? And little flexibility when it comes to time off?

“Generous” is quite a word to use.

Teachers get more time off than the traditional workforce. Everyone knows this, fool.

Me:
65 hours a week x 40 weeks = 2600 hours

My “traditional workforce” DH:
40 hours a week x 50 weeks = 2000 hours

I’m not sure how math works for you, but my “foolish” math shows me working far more than my DH.

What I know, foolish as I am, is that my full year of work is compacted into 10 packed months with limited flexibility.

But you are so much wiser than me, so I guess math works differently for you.

You aren’t working 65 hours per week and certainly not regularly, lying liar.

I know it’s easier to degrade me when you think I’m lazy.

I grade essays. Stacks of them. Since I haven’t figured out magic yet, I actually have to read and comment on each one.

So, figuring 50 essays at 15 minutes each, that’s 12.5 hours of grading for that assignment alone. And I have 90 additional students turning in paragraphs for an additional 7.5 hours of grading. So that’s 20 hours of grading. I also have to plan, meet with students, email parents, attend grade level meetings, and occasionally come up for air.

And I repeat this cycle every 2-3 weeks.

So please don’t tell me about my job. If you haven’t taught, you simply don’t know. You. Don’t. Know.

And?
These aren’t outside of a teacher’s responsibility.
I have to read legal documents, edit, file, re-edit often, file again. This cycle is repeated daily. Meet with clients, attend meetings, plan, travel, and occasionally come up for air.
You are not special.

I’m sure you have more than 45 minutes a day to do this task. After I have pointless meetings and go to the bathroom, I might get 5 minutes a day without students in my classroom to grade. On a good day.

And you think teachers are the only employees to have pointless meetings? You’re out of touch.

My DH has lots of pointless meetings but that is his job. It isn’t taking the place of other work. The more pointless meetings they force teachers to attend, the less time they have to plan and grade and communicate with parents. We never used to have all of these meetings. Our planning time was our own. Now we tell about the same data from week to week because someone in the central office says we need to have twice a week data meetings.

And you don’t think this happens at other places of work? That teachers have the monopoly on worthless meetings that take up their work time hours?! You’re a fool.

Oh good… the “fool” poster is back. Does insulting people usually work for you?

You have posted multiple times telling teachers how good they have it. Why haven’t you applied? That’s a serious question. For the time you have invested trying to convince teachers they have it good, you could have gotten your resume together.

I have three more quitting my department at the end of the year. Join us. Seriously.

For the time you invested trying to convince me they don’t have it good, you could have gotten your resume together. Why haven’t you applied elsewhere? That’s a serious question.

Right now, I’m staying because I happen to be VERY GOOD at what I do. That doesn’t mean I appreciate being abused, and I tend to speak out when things are wrong.

I don’t need to leave. I need people who are ignorant of teacher working conditions to remain silent or come get some first-hand experience.

And I am aware of teacher’s work so don’t tell me to stay silent. I made it very clear that I worked at multiple schools. You can stay silent and I can tell you to leave if you don’t like your job.

This is an anonymous forum; therefore, you’ve made nothing “very clear.” And unless you have taught in those schools, taking the work home and being directly responsible for curricula, then do you really know?

And no, I won’t remain silent. I solve problems. The current problem is teacher shortages because of the conditions you refuse to accept as real.

You solve problem?! Ha! You aren’t solving the teacher shortage problem.
I have taught in schools, taken work home, so yeah, I know. You don’t know.

You taught. That’s past tense. So you also contributed to the teacher shortage. What was it about the job that made you leave?

It’s clear the job wasn’t able to keep you, either. So why are you picking on teachers for doing the same thing as you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have had amazing teachers who tend to be popular and well supported by parents, and terrible teachers who tend to be unpopular with students and parents. It’s like that at least in my kids’ schools. I’ve learned to be ready to jump in to supplement and—in extreme circumstances—unenroll them.

Mcps teacher pay seems generous the longer you work, so not feeling too sorry for them in that respect.

Is it still good pay if they are working 65 hours a week? With few breaks during the school day? And little flexibility when it comes to time off?

“Generous” is quite a word to use.

Teachers get more time off than the traditional workforce. Everyone knows this, fool.

Me:
65 hours a week x 40 weeks = 2600 hours

My “traditional workforce” DH:
40 hours a week x 50 weeks = 2000 hours

I’m not sure how math works for you, but my “foolish” math shows me working far more than my DH.

What I know, foolish as I am, is that my full year of work is compacted into 10 packed months with limited flexibility.

But you are so much wiser than me, so I guess math works differently for you.

You aren’t working 65 hours per week and certainly not regularly, lying liar.

I know it’s easier to degrade me when you think I’m lazy.

I grade essays. Stacks of them. Since I haven’t figured out magic yet, I actually have to read and comment on each one.

So, figuring 50 essays at 15 minutes each, that’s 12.5 hours of grading for that assignment alone. And I have 90 additional students turning in paragraphs for an additional 7.5 hours of grading. So that’s 20 hours of grading. I also have to plan, meet with students, email parents, attend grade level meetings, and occasionally come up for air.

And I repeat this cycle every 2-3 weeks.

So please don’t tell me about my job. If you haven’t taught, you simply don’t know. You. Don’t. Know.

And?
These aren’t outside of a teacher’s responsibility.
I have to read legal documents, edit, file, re-edit often, file again. This cycle is repeated daily. Meet with clients, attend meetings, plan, travel, and occasionally come up for air.
You are not special.

I’m sure you have more than 45 minutes a day to do this task. After I have pointless meetings and go to the bathroom, I might get 5 minutes a day without students in my classroom to grade. On a good day.

And you think teachers are the only employees to have pointless meetings? You’re out of touch.

My DH has lots of pointless meetings but that is his job. It isn’t taking the place of other work. The more pointless meetings they force teachers to attend, the less time they have to plan and grade and communicate with parents. We never used to have all of these meetings. Our planning time was our own. Now we tell about the same data from week to week because someone in the central office says we need to have twice a week data meetings.

And you don’t think this happens at other places of work? That teachers have the monopoly on worthless meetings that take up their work time hours?! You’re a fool.

Oh good… the “fool” poster is back. Does insulting people usually work for you?

You have posted multiple times telling teachers how good they have it. Why haven’t you applied? That’s a serious question. For the time you have invested trying to convince teachers they have it good, you could have gotten your resume together.

I have three more quitting my department at the end of the year. Join us. Seriously.

For the time you invested trying to convince me they don’t have it good, you could have gotten your resume together. Why haven’t you applied elsewhere? That’s a serious question.

Right now, I’m staying because I happen to be VERY GOOD at what I do. That doesn’t mean I appreciate being abused, and I tend to speak out when things are wrong.

I don’t need to leave. I need people who are ignorant of teacher working conditions to remain silent or come get some first-hand experience.

And I am aware of teacher’s work so don’t tell me to stay silent. I made it very clear that I worked at multiple schools. You can stay silent and I can tell you to leave if you don’t like your job.

This is an anonymous forum; therefore, you’ve made nothing “very clear.” And unless you have taught in those schools, taking the work home and being directly responsible for curricula, then do you really know?

And no, I won’t remain silent. I solve problems. The current problem is teacher shortages because of the conditions you refuse to accept as real.

You solve problem?! Ha! You aren’t solving the teacher shortage problem.
I have taught in schools, taken work home, so yeah, I know. You don’t know.

Anonymous wrote:To the PP who is continuing to bash teachers nonstop - congratulations! We get it. You don’t like teachers. You think they are all lazy and shouldn’t be complaining. Do you feel validated now? You’ve spent so much time with your negative energy trying to gaslight teachers about what they have or haven’t done. Girl bye. Go find a hobby.

You found your hobby.

All the teachers go bye bye after years of manipulation, coercion, and abuse. No one wants to teach. Can you blame them?

Anonymous wrote:My first grader still does not have a permanent teacher for her class yet. They are now hiring a long term sub who has zero experience in the classroom, while continuing to look for a permanent teacher. I’m new to MCPs, and wondering if this is a common thing that happens. Are subs usually any random person who applies? No teaching or classroom experience needed at all? Has anyone had a situation where their child never gets a permanent teacher the entire year?

Same issue?:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1225764.page

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My first grader still does not have a permanent teacher for her class yet. They are now hiring a long term sub who has zero experience in the classroom, while continuing to look for a permanent teacher. I’m new to MCPs, and wondering if this is a common thing that happens. Are subs usually any random person who applies? No teaching or classroom experience needed at all? Has anyone had a situation where their child never gets a permanent teacher the entire year?

Substitutes, and quality ones, are a weakness of MCPS. While I won't say your situation is unheard of, I also wouldn't say it's common. Did the teacher leave after the school year started? That's usually where I see scenarios like the one you've described.

No. They never had a teacher. One day before school started they apparently enrolled an extra student over the cap, to give them a 4th class. So they immediately split up the existing 3 classes, and assigned my daughter’s class two different staff members to teach the class. Now they are transitioning to a long term sub because they can’t find a teacher, and the staff members need to do their originally hired positions.

What a mess. This seems like the principal fumbled here since they planned on hiring a teacher and clearly didn't have a candidate in the pipeline capable of making it in time for the beginning of the school year.

+1. Sounds like an inexperienced principal.

I’m a different PP but at the same school. The extra class was added the day before classes started and no candidates were available at that point. It’s actually a very experienced principal who is usually really good at this but the timing here was impossible. You can reserve someone when lots of other schools know they have positions confirmed.

The principal should not have split the classes up until they had a new teacher hired. The teacher shortage is a real thing, and an experienced principal should have known how hard it would be to hire a teacher at that point. I feel bad for these first graders.

Correct! Last year, our former very exprrienced but now retired principal advertised for a teacher before splitting the class. After she didn't find a good candidate, she requested to hire two parseducators, 1 for each class, to help the teachers manage the higher numbers. The 2 teachers were happy with that, the students didn't have to be moved which made the families happy as well.

That's how an EFFECTIVE, experienced principal handles things! Everyone knows there's a teacher shortage and hiring anyone after a certain date most likely will not yield positive results.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long term subs are usually experienced teachers. Is this a recent graduate?

That was back before the iPhone ruined children. I taught in the early 2000s. I saw the slide. I would never long term sub.

This has nothing to do with phones. Parents checked out when teachers and admin made it clear they didn't want parental involvement, not enough specialized programs, no consequences at school, dumbed-down curriculum, and more.

Teachers have no control over which programs a school offers, whether or not there are consequences at school, the strength of the county’s curriculum, etc.

Teachers have to wade through all this and see what they can deliver to children in spite of these roadblocks created by the county.

I am aware it’s easy to hold teachers up as the problem, but that is often not accurate. Teachers hold very little voice or power, and often get discouraged when they are blamed for the many things out of their control.

Teachers control their classroom. They set expectations, hold kids accountable and have flexibility over the base curriculum. Our teachers aren't using all MCPS curriculum. One bought it off the internet.

It’s not quite that simple. Schoolwide discipline is set by administrators. Teachers don’t have autonomy to uphold consequences, and they are often thwarted by admin. And curriculum? Teachers don’t have much authority on that, either.

Education isn’t remotely the same as when you were in school. Many teachers are working through these bad changes, using their own time (and money) to deliver a better experience for your children.

When parents come to DCUM and write so disparagingly about teachers, especially when we are working so hard for your children, it leaves us feeling even more discouraged. And on that note: thank you to the many parents who have been supportive on this thread. It’s helpful to know there are many who see our effort and appreciate it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long term subs are usually experienced teachers. Is this a recent graduate?

That was back before the iPhone ruined children. I taught in the early 2000s. I saw the slide. I would never long term sub.

This has nothing to do with phones. Parents checked out when teachers and admin made it clear they didn't want parental involvement, not enough specialized programs, no consequences at school, dumbed-down curriculum, and more.

Teachers have no control over which programs a school offers, whether or not there are consequences at school, the strength of the county’s curriculum, etc.

Teachers have to wade through all this and see what they can deliver to children in spite of these roadblocks created by the county.

I am aware it’s easy to hold teachers up as the problem, but that is often not accurate. Teachers hold very little voice or power, and often get discouraged when they are blamed for the many things out of their control.

Teachers control their classroom. They set expectations, hold kids accountable and have flexibility over the base curriculum. Our teachers aren't using all MCPS curriculum. One bought it off the internet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long term subs are usually experienced teachers. Is this a recent graduate?

That was back before the iPhone ruined children. I taught in the early 2000s. I saw the slide. I would never long term sub.

This has nothing to do with phones. Parents checked out when teachers and admin made it clear they didn't want parental involvement, not enough specialized programs, no consequences at school, dumbed-down curriculum, and more.

Teachers have no control over which programs a school offers, whether or not there are consequences at school, the strength of the county’s curriculum, etc.

Teachers have to wade through all this and see what they can deliver to children in spite of these roadblocks created by the county.

I am aware it’s easy to hold teachers up as the problem, but that is often not accurate. Teachers hold very little voice or power, and often get discouraged when they are blamed for the many things out of their control.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long term subs are usually experienced teachers. Is this a recent graduate?

That was back before the iPhone ruined children. I taught in the early 2000s. I saw the slide. I would never long term sub.

This has nothing to do with phones. Parents checked out when teachers and admin made it clear they didn't want parental involvement, not enough specialized programs, no consequences at school, dumbed-down curriculum, and more.

OP, sorry that you are having to deal with this. This happened to one of my kids last year. Eventually, the position was filled (November) with a non-credentialed teacher. Despite our initial reservations, she turned out to be fantastic and connected with my DS. Sometimes you don't have any control and have to live with the discomfort. We were prepared to go private, but ultimately it worked out. Hope that your story has a positive end too!

An overlooked fact that makes teaching undesirable is the almost complete lack of control over day-to-day reality. Teachers don't choose their students. If you get a tough kid or a tough parent, it's over 180 days of 'deal with it.' Think about the toughest customers, patients, clients in any other business - rarely does a professional spend that much time with them. Now add in lack of control over so many other factors - schedules, curriculum, policies, testing, whether or not a child is eating or sleeping properly, their homelife, the children's IQ, parental health or illness, neglect or overindulgence at home, discipline or lack thereof both at school and at home... Even the school, grade level, and subjects they teach are often at the whim of administrators. Teachers take lots of blame for the 'product' but consideration must be given to how much is simply out of their control.

To the PP who is continuing to bash teachers nonstop - congratulations! We get it. You don’t like teachers. You think they are all lazy and shouldn’t be complaining. Do you feel validated now? You’ve spent so much time with your negative energy trying to gaslight teachers about what they have or haven’t done. Girl bye. Go find a hobby.