Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand OP’s logic. There aren’t enough “top schools” to admit 10% of the entire college bound population. And also, it’s not really true that a typical 90tb percentile kid could do well at the very top schools. I want to emphasize the word “typical” in my last sentence, because tests aren’t perfect and there are always unusual exceptions. But for the most part a 90th percentile kid probably wouldn’t do well at the most rigorous schools. Even a 99th percentile kid can struggle to keep up with the 99.99th percentile kids at MIT or Caltech.

But I would agree that a 90th percentile kid could do very well at most colleges, as long as you’re not talking about the top 25-50 colleges in the entire country. There are many, many, decent colleges in the US. It’s a huge field! Not everyone can be Ivy bound.

Ok, lets calm down here. There is a total of about 40 college bound kids in the USA who are 99.99 percentile. That's a handful of students at the very top schools, assuming they all go to one. Most kids at even those top schools will never cross paths with them and won't "struggle to keep up with them", unless they choose to (and assuming these kids are fully committed to school, have no issues etc - almost certainly not true for every single one).

99th percentile should have no problem handling coursework at the most selective schools, in any subject. It's not that hard. They need to study harder than 99.9 but they can get excellent grades if they apply themselves.

95th percentile, if accepted to top school, should avoid all heavily mathy subjects. math, physics, CS... Econ is borderline - doable but with significant effort.

90th percentile can take psychology, various area studies, languages... Not easy, and they won't be the best, but they can have a decent GPA. Besides, these are kids who were #2 or #3 in their 20-person classes since pre-K. They won't be "struggling to keep up" with the geniuses.

90th %ile kids are slightly above Average at our public schools. Other poster posted similar! They are not and never have been #2 or 3 in a class . They are in the 2nd or 3rd from top math level. They get in to JMU and VT if not engineering. Sometimes they get lucky and get in to William and Mary or UVA in state if they ED and grind away to get a class rank in the top 15% , but not commonly.
Of course if they get in to a top school /athlete, some big hook/, they can get a below-average 3.5 GpA in an easy major. But most do not have any chance of getting in! No rational parent would push these schools on a kid like the OP with a 1350 and above average but not top 20% grades

90 the percentile means there is 2 kids per 20 kid class that are better than you. Unless you are talking about Blair TJ or similar there is not way 90th is average at your public school.

DP: 90th percentile is slightly above average: 85th is average in our district. A different poster shared 2 different UMC publics where 1260-1280 is average(85th is 1250), and someone else shared TJ average is 1516 or 99th.
School districts publish CTP and other nationally normed test percentiles: many public school districts in our state have 85th around the average. Those same districts have a correlative SAT range.

Some of you do not understand how nationally normed percentiles work

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand OP’s logic. There aren’t enough “top schools” to admit 10% of the entire college bound population. And also, it’s not really true that a typical 90tb percentile kid could do well at the very top schools. I want to emphasize the word “typical” in my last sentence, because tests aren’t perfect and there are always unusual exceptions. But for the most part a 90th percentile kid probably wouldn’t do well at the most rigorous schools. Even a 99th percentile kid can struggle to keep up with the 99.99th percentile kids at MIT or Caltech.

But I would agree that a 90th percentile kid could do very well at most colleges, as long as you’re not talking about the top 25-50 colleges in the entire country. There are many, many, decent colleges in the US. It’s a huge field! Not everyone can be Ivy bound.

Ok, lets calm down here. There is a total of about 40 college bound kids in the USA who are 99.99 percentile. That's a handful of students at the very top schools, assuming they all go to one. Most kids at even those top schools will never cross paths with them and won't "struggle to keep up with them", unless they choose to (and assuming these kids are fully committed to school, have no issues etc - almost certainly not true for every single one).

99th percentile should have no problem handling coursework at the most selective schools, in any subject. It's not that hard. They need to study harder than 99.9 but they can get excellent grades if they apply themselves.

95th percentile, if accepted to top school, should avoid all heavily mathy subjects. math, physics, CS... Econ is borderline - doable but with significant effort.

90th percentile can take psychology, various area studies, languages... Not easy, and they won't be the best, but they can have a decent GPA. Besides, these are kids who were #2 or #3 in their 20-person classes since pre-K. They won't be "struggling to keep up" with the geniuses.

The US produced 3.8 million HS grads in 2019, so that's about 380 99.99th percentile kids. At places like Caltech and MIT, even the 99.9th percentile kids are struggling hard to do well in their classes (by design).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand OP’s logic. There aren’t enough “top schools” to admit 10% of the entire college bound population. And also, it’s not really true that a typical 90tb percentile kid could do well at the very top schools. I want to emphasize the word “typical” in my last sentence, because tests aren’t perfect and there are always unusual exceptions. But for the most part a 90th percentile kid probably wouldn’t do well at the most rigorous schools. Even a 99th percentile kid can struggle to keep up with the 99.99th percentile kids at MIT or Caltech.

But I would agree that a 90th percentile kid could do very well at most colleges, as long as you’re not talking about the top 25-50 colleges in the entire country. There are many, many, decent colleges in the US. It’s a huge field! Not everyone can be Ivy bound.

Ok, lets calm down here. There is a total of about 40 college bound kids in the USA who are 99.99 percentile. That's a handful of students at the very top schools, assuming they all go to one. Most kids at even those top schools will never cross paths with them and won't "struggle to keep up with them", unless they choose to (and assuming these kids are fully committed to school, have no issues etc - almost certainly not true for every single one).

99th percentile should have no problem handling coursework at the most selective schools, in any subject. It's not that hard. They need to study harder than 99.9 but they can get excellent grades if they apply themselves.

95th percentile, if accepted to top school, should avoid all heavily mathy subjects. math, physics, CS... Econ is borderline - doable but with significant effort.

90th percentile can take psychology, various area studies, languages... Not easy, and they won't be the best, but they can have a decent GPA. Besides, these are kids who were #2 or #3 in their 20-person classes since pre-K. They won't be "struggling to keep up" with the geniuses.

90th %ile kids are slightly above Average at our public schools. Other poster posted similar! They are not and never have been #2 or 3 in a class . They are in the 2nd or 3rd from top math level. They get in to JMU and VT if not engineering. Sometimes they get lucky and get in to William and Mary or UVA in state if they ED and grind away to get a class rank in the top 15% , but not commonly.
Of course if they get in to a top school /athlete, some big hook/, they can get a below-average 3.5 GpA in an easy major. But most do not have any chance of getting in! No rational parent would push these schools on a kid like the OP with a 1350 and above average but not top 20% grades

90 the percentile means there is 2 kids per 20 kid class that are better than you. Unless you are talking about Blair TJ or similar there is not way 90th is average at your public school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who think 90th percentile is a good benchmark for top schools, like the Ivy League or Stanford or MIT, where do you draw the line? The parents of 85th percentile kids probably think the difference between 90th and 85th percentile is meaningless. And the parents of 80th percentile kids, 75th percentile kids etc would also feel differently. Is it just that you don’t believe tests reveal anything?

Just to clarify,
NO ONE on here except OP has tried to say 90th%ile is a benchmark for top schools. It is far below the 25th%ile, even pre test optional. The average student at ivy/plus is 99th %ile. So 99th%ile is the benchmark, 98th as the lowest reasonable bar that is reasonable as a possible acceptance AND a decent chance of getting near average in most majors. 90th%ile is well below average at UVa, William and Mary. It is however a reasonable benchmark for many schools in the top 50-100.

As discussed there are fewer than 40k students that are 90th+ percentile. Average freshman class size starting with top schools - around 1300 maybe? So top 25-30 ranked schools have enough space for the top 10%. No, William and Mary is not aspirational for 90th percentile students.

There are around 2.5 million freshman starting college each year so top 10% is more like 250,000 students

Anonymous wrote:Omg this was hilarious! I’m the OP and kid hasn’t taken real sat yet but on mock CB got.a 1360 so I’ll post back what happens on psat and sat. Top 5 percent at very competitive dmv public but yes complains about not being the smartest which is stupid to waste time on. Constantly downplaying social skills that are really strong and could deliver in life.

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Anonymous wrote:Raygun was “good enough” to qualify for the Olympics… but I’m still not sure that was a good idea. Just saying.

I would say, for her, it probably was a good idea, overall.

So, yeah, if Harvard calls your 90th percentile kid, let them go there. "Doing well" is very subjective anyways. Many supersmart kids get crushed when they are #2. Meanwhile someone less brilliant could be happy with their lower GPA and better in using connections provided by the brand name school.

Well it provided a lot of humor for the world, I suppose.

There was a study showing that the lowest scoring stem majors at elite schools often abandoned their fields in college, even if they were more capable than the average stem major at a lower tier school. Such kids also get more positive attention and support from professors at lower tier schools than they would at elite schools, where the superstars get all the attention. So I don’t necessarily think it’s wise to just aim for the highest ranked school.

those kids needed to switch major.

Well they often do switch majors, but my point was that this is a shame, because they could still have excelled and ended up with a good stem career if they gone to school in a less competitive environment.

Perhaps, but wouldn't they come across those geniuses from other schools eventually? Or that suddenly doesn't matter?

I’m sure they must now and then. But still, the career outcomes (in STEM) are better for you if you’re a bigger fish in a small pond vs. a smaller fish in a big pond. Better mentorship and better opportunities at the outset, more appropriate class pace, etc. all help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand OP’s logic. There aren’t enough “top schools” to admit 10% of the entire college bound population. And also, it’s not really true that a typical 90tb percentile kid could do well at the very top schools. I want to emphasize the word “typical” in my last sentence, because tests aren’t perfect and there are always unusual exceptions. But for the most part a 90th percentile kid probably wouldn’t do well at the most rigorous schools. Even a 99th percentile kid can struggle to keep up with the 99.99th percentile kids at MIT or Caltech.

But I would agree that a 90th percentile kid could do very well at most colleges, as long as you’re not talking about the top 25-50 colleges in the entire country. There are many, many, decent colleges in the US. It’s a huge field! Not everyone can be Ivy bound.

Ok, lets calm down here. There is a total of about 40 college bound kids in the USA who are 99.99 percentile. That's a handful of students at the very top schools, assuming they all go to one. Most kids at even those top schools will never cross paths with them and won't "struggle to keep up with them", unless they choose to (and assuming these kids are fully committed to school, have no issues etc - almost certainly not true for every single one).

99th percentile should have no problem handling coursework at the most selective schools, in any subject. It's not that hard. They need to study harder than 99.9 but they can get excellent grades if they apply themselves.

95th percentile, if accepted to top school, should avoid all heavily mathy subjects. math, physics, CS... Econ is borderline - doable but with significant effort.

90th percentile can take psychology, various area studies, languages... Not easy, and they won't be the best, but they can have a decent GPA. Besides, these are kids who were #2 or #3 in their 20-person classes since pre-K. They won't be "struggling to keep up" with the geniuses.

Anonymous wrote:OP here--many say, "oh kid got 1350 but has all As in tough classes so it must be grade inflation" "they couldn't keep up in a top college", I am questioning that myth

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who think 90th percentile is a good benchmark for top schools, like the Ivy League or Stanford or MIT, where do you draw the line? The parents of 85th percentile kids probably think the difference between 90th and 85th percentile is meaningless. And the parents of 80th percentile kids, 75th percentile kids etc would also feel differently. Is it just that you don’t believe tests reveal anything?

Just to clarify,
NO ONE on here except OP has tried to say 90th%ile is a benchmark for top schools. It is far below the 25th%ile, even pre test optional. The average student at ivy/plus is 99th %ile. So 99th%ile is the benchmark, 98th as the lowest reasonable bar that is reasonable as a possible acceptance AND a decent chance of getting near average in most majors. 90th%ile is well below average at UVa, William and Mary. It is however a reasonable benchmark for many schools in the top 50-100.

As discussed there are fewer than 40k students that are 90th+ percentile. Average freshman class size starting with top schools - around 1300 maybe? So top 25-30 ranked schools have enough space for the top 10%. No, William and Mary is not aspirational for 90th percentile students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand OP’s logic. There aren’t enough “top schools” to admit 10% of the entire college bound population. And also, it’s not really true that a typical 90tb percentile kid could do well at the very top schools. I want to emphasize the word “typical” in my last sentence, because tests aren’t perfect and there are always unusual exceptions. But for the most part a 90th percentile kid probably wouldn’t do well at the most rigorous schools. Even a 99th percentile kid can struggle to keep up with the 99.99th percentile kids at MIT or Caltech.

But I would agree that a 90th percentile kid could do very well at most colleges, as long as you’re not talking about the top 25-50 colleges in the entire country. There are many, many, decent colleges in the US. It’s a huge field! Not everyone can be Ivy bound.

Ok, lets calm down here. There is a total of about 40 college bound kids in the USA who are 99.99 percentile. That's a handful of students at the very top schools, assuming they all go to one. Most kids at even those top schools will never cross paths with them and won't "struggle to keep up with them", unless they choose to (and assuming these kids are fully committed to school, have no issues etc - almost certainly not true for every single one).

99th percentile should have no problem handling coursework at the most selective schools, in any subject. It's not that hard. They need to study harder than 99.9 but they can get excellent grades if they apply themselves.

95th percentile, if accepted to top school, should avoid all heavily mathy subjects. math, physics, CS... Econ is borderline - doable but with significant effort.

90th percentile can take psychology, various area studies, languages... Not easy, and they won't be the best, but they can have a decent GPA. Besides, these are kids who were #2 or #3 in their 20-person classes since pre-K. They won't be "struggling to keep up" with the geniuses.

90th %ile kids are slightly above Average at our public schools. Other poster posted similar! They are not and never have been #2 or 3 in a class . They are in the 2nd or 3rd from top math level. They get in to JMU and VT if not engineering. Sometimes they get lucky and get in to William and Mary or UVA in state if they ED and grind away to get a class rank in the top 15% , but not commonly.
Of course if they get in to a top school /athlete, some big hook/, they can get a below-average 3.5 GpA in an easy major. But most do not have any chance of getting in! No rational parent would push these schools on a kid like the OP with a 1350 and above average but not top 20% grades