Anonymous wrote:Maybe it’s my area-specific but we have a lot of people from cultures of no volunteering who tend to sit out, and others don’t want to pick up their slack.

For me personally I just noticed that my son’s early elementary experience didn’t improve when I was volunteering (volunteering had no effect on how good or bad the school treated us or how many play dates he had).
So I kind of checked out.

I know there's the strong impression on DCUM that principals favor the PTA parents - it's so strong maybe at some schools it's true - but at our ES that definitely isn't the case. Some of the kids of the most involved moms got some of the worst teachers this year and last. What we PTA parents will tell you it does is:

1) give you a window into your child's day - when they say names, you can picture faces. Also in the case of at least one of my kids I saw some concerning behavior while I was volunteering that the teacher hadn't mentioned and the child didn't even think was happening. That gave me as a parent a chance to work on it. Win for my kid, win for me, hopefully win for the class. Yeah I know upthread someone said the kids whose parents should be volunteering to see bad behavior never do, but that isn't always the case. Even with my other kids where I didn't need to address something, it was easier to talk about the day when I knew more about how the class looked and who the kids were and how the teacher ran things.

2) give you a little rapport with the teacher so if an issue comes up, you feel more comfortable addressing it. Maybe it's your kid, like my one above and then I had an actual in-class experience if the teacher did raise the issue. Maybe it's another kid, and you feel a little better speaking up (like the multiple times my kids were smacked by classmates at school and I wanted to ask for their seats to please be moved).

Volunteering isn't going to necessarily give you a huge benefit or make your child a ton of friends. But there are some little things.

Maybe it’s my area-specific but we have a lot of people from cultures of no volunteering who tend to sit out, and others don’t want to pick up their slack.

For me personally I just noticed that my son’s early elementary experience didn’t improve when I was volunteering (volunteering had no effect on how good or bad the school treated us or how many play dates he had).
So I kind of checked out.

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I learned that nobody appreciated the time I spent doing PTA work (including leadership roles). My kids weren't "cool", so as a family, we weren't valued in the school community. Why should I volunteer to help a community that doesn't value me?

I agree PTA is a thankless job. But that’s not true for other types of volunteering - I coached a couple of teams for each of my kids and I still get invited to Christmas parties and get Christmas cards from some of my players families

It was particularly thankless during and just after COVID. Those parents took a lot of abuse from fellow parents for things that were outside of their control, so most of them quit and will likely never volunteer again.

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Anonymous wrote:PP and because most of the volunteer activities are overly-planned and too complicated.

Class parties with multiple parent volunteers to oversee an array of changing activities with stations. Teacher Appreciation Week with subcommittees: Door Decorating! Gift Card Collection! Teacher Lunch Potluck from Parents! Teacher Lunch Cateted by Chik Fil A!
6th Grade Grad Party: Decorations/Dance Decorations/Cafeteria. We Still Need Quiet Game Room Volunteers! Anyone have DJ Equipment? Attention Parents of Juniorslease Help with the All Night Grad Party to see how we do this!

So many of these seem silly. Some moms think they are vital and want to do them, so they do them. I am not going to opt out my kid b/c I think it's dumb; these mothers seem to find meaning in it. But I am not going to kill myself to do something unnecessary just b/c Lara's mother thinks it's important

For every non-volunteering parent who feels the way you do, there are three more who will not volunteer but will also complain about the activity being cancelled or "not done right."

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Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

This is because people prefer to make money to buy fancy houses and cars and trips, instead of forming human relationships in the community.

Or they want to spend their BigLaw husband's money at the day spa.

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Anonymous wrote:I’ve noticed with the schools, in particular, they have been very reluctant to allow parents/volunteers back in the buildings. Maybe they got used to just doing it all themselves, maybe they cut way back on programs and don’t need as many parent volunteers other than for the 1-2 field trips a year, maybe they’re holding on to old COVID protocols. Maybe a combination of all of these and more. But it’s only been this school year so far that our PTA has even asked for room parents for all the grades, and that they’ve planned a full slate of activities. Last year they had activities (both paid after school and free or cheap, like a Trunk or Treat and a Bingo night), but the teachers and the PTA had nothing for classroom volunteers. Again, apart from field trip chaperones. People get out of the practice of giving their time and then they don’t want to do it. Or the schools and organizations make them feel unwelcomed. We have a PTA clique for sure and they are actually all pretty nice, but they’re very used to working together with just the same 6-8 moms and there’s not a lot of use for “outsiders” and occasional volunteers.

Yeah but I bet they still took all the freebies and fundraisers for teacher appreciation and gifts and supplies didn’t they?

Teacher haters are so vile.

I don’t hate teachers. I hate people freeloading on the same populations they’re exploiting (women). It’s done at the county level if they’re accepting cash gifts for teachers from the same parents the school district refused to help.

Teachers are women and teachers aren't admin and teachers definitely aren't the people who aren't finding the budget to hire the additional teachers you want!

Anonymous wrote:I’m on a Board of Trustees for an independent school. Not a Sidwell or an NCS. We are truly struggling with volunteer burnout. The administration is short-staffed and lean on trustees for operational support. Meanwhile the school community treats us like paid employees who work full-time for them. Like PP above, all of us younger trustees just want out. The demands of the role are too great to be sustainable and the close-knit nature of a school community make boundaries challenging. Pre-Covid, school and parents were both in a different place, but post-covid our finances are not what they were and parents have shifted to a paying customer mindset. Our pipeline is running dry.

Yes, the paying customer attitude has become insufferable. I volunteer a lot, and the number of parents who seem to think I'm an employee instead of a classmate's mom is shocking (and even if I were an employee, who treats employees like crap anyway?). It never used to be this way. I had two parents yell at me because a gift that was made for their child by other parents had a minor (and fixable) flaw. Unbelievable.

It's dual employment. Severe shortage of SAHPs.

Anonymous wrote:The next generation of parents are extremely self-centered and all about their own “wellness” and “family time” — hoping they figure this out fast because they are harming their communities, which they also somehow miss.

This was the observation of our grade school principal, made to me when my youngest kid's class was graduating. Their demands and expectations increased, while participation decreased, as if they didn't realize it was parents doing all the work they were demanding. It's simple: you don't have a garden program anymore because you didn't volunteer to maintain the garden. There won't be a fall festival/picnic/whatever because one parent can't pull it off all on their own. When you see a Sign Up Genius with mostly blank space, expect that event to be canceled next year. Your cash donation does not make up for the absence of helping hands and boots on the ground.

Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

In other words you probably have a lot of people who are not from volunteering cultures and only happy to be on the receiving end

Anonymous wrote:There are two recent factors which come to mind for reducing parent interest. 1) Shift to schools requiring formal volunteer registration to assist with any school activity. There's the time required to complete the steps/checks and the privacy issues of having schools hold your personal information in case of hacks. Some decided it wasn't worth it. 2) Covid vaccine requirements for volunteers were a factor for some in not returning after schools re-opened. The requirements are gone now, but after a lot of time has elapsed, schedules get shifted and it's not as automatic to return.

I thought it was only our superintendent (I am not in the dmv) who made volunteering exceedingly difficult by putting on more and more requirements

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Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.

Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.

And I'd add, unoften unnecessary roles too that feel made up at times. if a volunteer wants to tell the community that we "need" to have this fesitval and is going to run it, that's fine, but don't asume we all agree with "need"

Exactly. And there seems to be an attitude in here that some people owe it to others to put on an event because other kids “need” it. The other parents don’t have any skin in the game but are able to show up for 2 hours to have fun with their own families and for this reason, other people need to donate large amounts of their own personal time and often money to make this happen. Why exactly? I’d like to enjoy the events with my family too, but I’m often working. If another parent can show up for 2 hours then they too can help out for an hour to make it a success. Otherwise, what’s the point? Does anyone really need this fall festival, spring fling, fun fest, put on by a small amount of volunteers who feel put upon and not appreciated? Hardly anyone ever says “thanks!” There’s usually just input about how it could have been better or what was lacking.

Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community because we all live here/go to this school/are part of this local youth club" that comes from volunteer run organizations. It means fewer of the all important weak ties people need. But all everyone sees is the hour taken to put on the Fun Fest.

Obviously sometimes Pinterest Parents go overboard with tiny details - my kid really doesn't care if the donut holes for the winter class party look like snowmen or not but I know the picture looked cute on your Instagram. But the broad fact of these events really is important. We have to fight against the loneliness epidemic somehow, and I'd argue these free labor driven volunteering events are one way people can do it. Meet other people you wouldn't normally hang out with, provide something for your community, get a sense of a job well done (yeah, even if the freeloading parents are annoying complainers), give your kids another chance to see that kid from class that just maybe they might be friends with.

But if you’ve ever organized the Fun Fest you see the dark side of how many hours it takes to pull off vs the enjoyment given. The same people doing the set up, running the show, are also the people doing the clean up. Not to mention the hours involved in planning, securing vendors, getting the decorations, organizing food, etc. Just so other people can swoop in for an hour or two and “feel like a community”. To the people putting on the show it’s a pretty poor return on investment. Their weekends are precious too and these types of things no longer feel worth it. There’s not really a sense of “we’re all in this together” when such a small number of people do the heavy lifting.

But do you hear what some of us are saying? We will come out of respect (and yes, because it's fun) but we don't necessarily think its' worth your time, either -- but you seem to. This whole martyr, "it takes a village and our KIDS NEED THIS" -- many of us don't agree with the latter in caps

I absolutely don’t think our kids NEED this which is why I won’t do it anymore. Someone else above is arguing what a travesty it is that people only want to do pay to play activities and that leaves out other kids from the former community events OTHER parents put in the blood, sweat, and tears to pull off. No, I don’t think those kids or any of them need these community events.

Specifically I’m talking about this PP: “ Based on many posts it seems like people would rather pay for enrichment than volunteer themselves. I'd argue that's incredibly sad, because it limits their circle and their kids' circles to other people who can also pay for that specific type of enrichment. It reduces the feeling of "we're community”

I don’t think other families owe those kids events or need to martyr themselves to pull off for sake of community when people like you say “we’ll come out of respect” which goes to show how little most people value these events.

I don't think that poster thinking it's sad implies she's a martyr or demanding other people to be martyrs. She's just pointing out that these events offer something she values, which is being around all kinds of people, providing events for kids whose parents maybe otherwise don't have the capacity to be involved, and creating more weak ties, which may be lost if fewer people volunteer.

It seems like she thinks those benefits to her family and community outweigh the costs to her, such as hard work, people complaining, people not appreciating the events, etc. Her post was good food for thought.

Then that is the perfect person to step up to be the committee chairperson to take on the planning or some type of leadership role to make it happen. I didn’t get the sense she was putting in the work.

Discussed poster here. While I haven't run Fun Fair (or whatever your school calls it) specifically I have done equally demanding things - and I say that based on discussions with my friends who have run Fun Fair who have come to complain about the gathering of sponsors, the finding of vendors, and all the other pain that goes into planning. Definitely done other big committee chairperson roles. Otherwise yes, I'd be an utter hypocrite. And FWIW everyone I know who has done those big events always says afterward it was worth it for our specific community. Everyone. I've never heard anyone say they thought the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.

Anonymous wrote:I serve as a volunteer on the Board of a local educational non profit. I work on a committee and volunteer for periodic events. What seems to cause friction is the fact the many of the volunteers are retired and have much more time to give than the people who are still working/raising kids. It’s a catch 22 though since this organization would eventually die out without younger members stepping in, but it’s these younger members who don’t have the same amount of time to volunteer as the older ones do. The older members then sometimes express frustration with the younger members lack of availability. Not sure how to break this cycle, and it’s making me seriously reconsider my role as a working mom with young kids. At the end of the day, we’re all volunteers.

Oh man, this plays out over and over again at our very multi-generational church where there are tons of retirees. There's a strong desire for the younger generation to step up to do things, but the younger generation are working and parenting and caring for elders and all the things. It's definitely led to things like VBS being canceled.

I’m on a Board of Trustees for an independent school. Not a Sidwell or an NCS. We are truly struggling with volunteer burnout. The administration is short-staffed and lean on trustees for operational support. Meanwhile the school community treats us like paid employees who work full-time for them. Like PP above, all of us younger trustees just want out. The demands of the role are too great to be sustainable and the close-knit nature of a school community make boundaries challenging. Pre-Covid, school and parents were both in a different place, but post-covid our finances are not what they were and parents have shifted to a paying customer mindset. Our pipeline is running dry.

Anonymous wrote:I serve as a volunteer on the Board of a local educational non profit. I work on a committee and volunteer for periodic events. What seems to cause friction is the fact the many of the volunteers are retired and have much more time to give than the people who are still working/raising kids. It’s a catch 22 though since this organization would eventually die out without younger members stepping in, but it’s these younger members who don’t have the same amount of time to volunteer as the older ones do. The older members then sometimes express frustration with the younger members lack of availability. Not sure how to break this cycle, and it’s making me seriously reconsider my role as a working mom with young kids. At the end of the day, we’re all volunteers.

This sounds like the non-profit my DH volunteers at, but we're in the midwest so I doubt it. We've discussed this at length, but I honestly don't know what a solution could be. Curious if others on here have thoughts.