Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want my doctor to be a problem-solver and figure out what’s going on instead of writing a script for a medicine that treats the symptoms and doing nothing more.

What if what’s going on is just you’re getting older? I can’t problem solve my way out of you being 75.

Ok, but what about all the times this happens with kids or problems that aren’t related to aging? I can think of numerous examples in my family where it took visiting numerous doctors to find one willing to dig a little deeper to discover the real issue. Most doctors don’t do this because they’re arrogant or lazy. There are some talented doctors who won’t rest until they find an answer. These doctors are worth their weight in gold!

No, most doctors don’t do this because if they spend more than 10 min with you, they get in trouble.

What a stupid system. Everything becomes more expensive because not enough time is spent understanding the problem.

It is NOT a stupid system. We have a specifically designed healthcare system that makes a lot of people extremely wealthy. It's called capitalism and the doctor you see is the front line worker.

Two of the features of capitalism are that the front line worker is NEVER the person designing the system and is NEVER the person making the big bucks.
Your best hope is to find the doctor/nurse who internally motivated to provide great care in spite of the system.

Doctors aren't just front-line workers. Historically they owned the businesses that established the health care industry as it exists today. Even now, many still do.

Not anymore- the vast majority of doctors are employed now. The older doctors sold us out.

Almost half of doctors are still in private practice. By my point was that doctors have been in leadership positions where they made the decisions that led to the current ecosystem.

Nope 80%

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-physician-relationships/nearly-80-physicians-now-employed-by-hospitals-corporations-report-finds.html

AMA estimates are pretty different.
https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/2022-prp-practice-arrangement.pdf

Regardless, the point is that doctors aren't merely "front-line workers" that have been subject to the whims of other entities. They constructed the current environment, and have been part of the more recent shift away from private practices.

It's strange that you referred to older doctors "selling you out" with that shift, given that studies have consistently shown that young doctors don't want to run private practices.

DP. You forgot to check the publication dates on the articles you are comparing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between "makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

There's the bedside manner from a doctor that we've all come to know and love!

TREAT YOUR PATIENTS BETTER!

I suspect the OP isn't a doctor. See the use of abbreviations (s/o), the "f", and the poor writing. They might be "medical adjacent" e.g. a doctor's kid listening to complaints about the current state of the health system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On dcurbanmoms it seems that:

People want doctors to make pennies and do work for free….

But they get mad when primary care doctors who make little money are quitting and leaving them without care.

People want doctors who pass and excel on their training exams and have tons of knowledge but then get mad at doctors who “think they know more than them” or the think NP/ PAs are better even though they don’t have to take these exams or do any training.

So seriously what do you want from doctors? Should they even exist anymore?

thanks for writing this-never saw more vitriol for MDs than on dcum

Have you tried the doctor review websites?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between "makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Is $50k the only alternative to $225k that you can think of?

How about, like with any other job, a part of a doctor's pay be tied to customer satisfaction? The contempt most MDs show for their patients would go away in a hurry!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between "makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

There's the bedside manner from a doctor that we've all come to know and love!

TREAT YOUR PATIENTS BETTER!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between "makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Just imagine the types of doctors you’d have if you offered people 50k salaries! the best of the best!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between "makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Of course you’re not sympathetic. You’re an idiot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hit reply too fast. Do you see how this makes zero sense? You want them to know better than you but you don’t want to do what they tell you to do.

Also if they take all those phone calls they’ll never have time to actually see patients in person and also they won’t get paid. Sucks but true. Your quick phone call, multiplied by 15, plus the documentation required for it, would take up hours.

There's A LOT of real estate between "makes $50k a year" and "makes $600k a year". Doctors could stop over-scheduling, spend more time with patients, take phone calls, work on bedside manner and still make what any American would consider a lavish sum. Nobody is asking them to impoverish themselves, just maybe make a couple thou less a day.

If a doctor actually can control his own patient schedule- and let’s say he sees 3 patients per hour at 20min per patient and then has an hour at the end of the day to answer calls. And a lunch 30min. That’s 21 patients a day. Billed at primary care sick visit rates to insurance. Now he has to pay his receptionist and his two medical assistants. He has to pay his billing lady and his office manager (unless he manages his own office in which case give him an additional patient free hour per day to do administrative work , so, that’s down to 18 patients a day). Now he doesn’t double book patients either. So imagine 3 patients a day no show. You’re down to 15 a day. Now he also has to pay rent , and malpractice insurance. Can you guess how much he’d take home at the end of the day? I’ll clue you in. Not enough to stay in business.

All my doctors are driving much nicer cars than I do—apparently there's some fat to cut in the system. Sorry, not sympathetic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:21:55, I forgot two more:

I do to want to have pay to park for the privilege of seeing you

I do not want to wait 30 minutes (or more) in your waiting room and another 30 minutes (or more) in the exam room before I am graced with your presence for less than 10 minutes, and then I have to pay even more for parking, for the time I spent waiting for you

You’re going to have to pay for concierge service to get all of this. It’s readily available to you. But…I’m guessing you don’t want to pay.

Dp Or can't?

Irrelevant. If that PP expects a certain level of care, it’s on her to pay for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want my doctor to be a problem-solver and figure out what’s going on instead of writing a script for a medicine that treats the symptoms and doing nothing more.

What if what’s going on is just you’re getting older? I can’t problem solve my way out of you being 75.

Ok, but what about all the times this happens with kids or problems that aren’t related to aging? I can think of numerous examples in my family where it took visiting numerous doctors to find one willing to dig a little deeper to discover the real issue. Most doctors don’t do this because they’re arrogant or lazy. There are some talented doctors who won’t rest until they find an answer. These doctors are worth their weight in gold!

No, most doctors don’t do this because if they spend more than 10 min with you, they get in trouble.

What a stupid system. Everything becomes more expensive because not enough time is spent understanding the problem.

It is NOT a stupid system. We have a specifically designed healthcare system that makes a lot of people extremely wealthy. It's called capitalism and the doctor you see is the front line worker.

Two of the features of capitalism are that the front line worker is NEVER the person designing the system and is NEVER the person making the big bucks.
Your best hope is to find the doctor/nurse who internally motivated to provide great care in spite of the system.

Doctors aren't just front-line workers. Historically they owned the businesses that established the health care industry as it exists today. Even now, many still do.

Not anymore- the vast majority of doctors are employed now. The older doctors sold us out.

Almost half of doctors are still in private practice. By my point was that doctors have been in leadership positions where they made the decisions that led to the current ecosystem.

Nope 80%

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-physician-relationships/nearly-80-physicians-now-employed-by-hospitals-corporations-report-finds.html

AMA estimates are pretty different.
https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/2022-prp-practice-arrangement.pdf

Regardless, the point is that doctors aren't merely "front-line workers" that have been subject to the whims of other entities. They constructed the current environment, and have been part of the more recent shift away from private practices.

It's strange that you referred to older doctors "selling you out" with that shift, given that studies have consistently shown that young doctors don't want to run private practices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe medical schools should recommend applicants take some business courses in their undergrad degrees.

I get that many med school applicants have always been at the top of their classes, particularly the sciences, but given the way the health sector works, knowledge of the business world is also important.

You think MBAs would help in OPs situation?

Many such programs exist including at Harvard.

It's always useful to be able to speak the language of the business world, just as it's useful for patients to have medical knowledge so they can self advocate in the face of short appointments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On dcurbanmoms it seems that:

People want doctors to make pennies and do work for free….

But they get mad when primary care doctors who make little money are quitting and leaving them without care.

People want doctors who pass and excel on their training exams and have tons of knowledge but then get mad at doctors who “think they know more than them” or the think NP/ PAs are better even though they don’t have to take these exams or do any training.

So seriously what do you want from doctors? Should they even exist anymore?

How about not being rude and condescending to women? Take our pain seriously? Stop telling us it is in our heads ( unless it is) How about when you cancel than you find another appointment sooner than 6 months!

Whose appointment do we cancel to get you in sooner, though?

Its pretty poor practice to cancel an appointment and not prioritize the cancellation.

I am also tired of getting chastised by admins when I am not seen every 6 months. Ma'm this is my 3rd time calling. The first time, the schedule wasn't available that far out. The 2nd time I called, a month later, there wasnt an appointment within the 6-month timeframe and I was told someone would call me after getting permission from the doc to fit me in. The 3rd time, I am getting chastised.

I am also frustrated by being told that I can make appointment online and being referred to their portal but then I cant make an appointment and it says to call the office.

Also, if I arrive 15 minutes early and complete my paperwork (for the 2nd time because I have already done it online like I have been prompted to do via text and email) dont let someone who arrives late for their appointment be seen first. That pisses me off to no end.

Probably that they should rescue us from our own worst impulses, make us beautiful and full of energy, and do so with a friendly smile and a low cost bill.

Duh.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe medical schools should recommend applicants take some business courses in their undergrad degrees.

I get that many med school applicants have always been at the top of their classes, particularly the sciences, but given the way the health sector works, knowledge of the business world is also important.

You think MBAs would help in OPs situation?

Many such programs exist including at Harvard.

You missed the point of the question. MBAs have not helped the health care system. They make changes based on profits/business model without any actual health care background.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe medical schools should recommend applicants take some business courses in their undergrad degrees.

I get that many med school applicants have always been at the top of their classes, particularly the sciences, but given the way the health sector works, knowledge of the business world is also important.

You think MBAs would help in OPs situation?

Many such programs exist including at Harvard.