Anonymous wrote:Very few people would say they don’t want a top school. But (a) defining “top schools” as though the rankings are definitive is asinine and (b) prioritizing rank and perceived prestige over fit is unwise.

New poster.

I went to HYP. It was a good education and it also, maybe even more importantly, has helped me a lot in life and career to have a prestigious name and the networks that come with it. Should it? Probably not. Does it? Absolutely.

I want the same for my kids. I don't want to push them to an unhealthy degree, which I actually think is to NO degree, given society already does that. I can't say I will be thrilled if they go to a university I'd never heard of.

People think of me as very crunchy and laid back and I am. I won't push them or stress the name too much especially as we can't afford some of those names easily, but I would be really happy if they went to fancy schools that gave them the same advantages they gave me.

I take solstice in knowing that my kids can get a good education any many many schools and that many more smart and hard-working kids will go to "lesser" universities than did in my day.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't want to pay 400k, so either top 20 where we qualify for FA or jump down a level to a school ranked 50-60.

The only schools we're not looking at are those very good but no real merit and no FA (like BC) and OOS publics that give no merit.

Yup, our family too. It's either an ivy or an in state public, maybe a merit-happy LAC. No in between.

I mean Ivys are great but they suck a bit at the moment. Rest of top 25 better IMO at the moment.

I dont understand this. I went to college when students camped out in the quad all the time, made noise, etc. The issue du jour was divestment from South Africa - the kids were right about that. And I live and work near Columbia so I saw this unfold. I thought the media made a lot of it and the administration didn't respond proportionally (ie, make people show ID to get on campus, cut the electricity to the quad). There were some bad days, but ... do you really think life on Dartmouth or Brown or Yale in 2024 is a lot different than in 2018? I don't. Kids dont care about admins comings and goings. Or the alumni donator class. The dorms are the same, the faculty is the same, the food is the same, the location is the same, the parties are the same, the sports are the same ..

I could have made a case for this during covid, but not now.

It is not just the protests. And yes life at an Ivy is different today than just two years ago. Tour guides said as much. You should go someplace you love if you can go there. Not saying don't go. Just go eyes wide open. Others in top 25 might be better.

What else did they say?

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Anonymous wrote:I don't want to pay 400k, so either top 20 where we qualify for FA or jump down a level to a school ranked 50-60.

The only schools we're not looking at are those very good but no real merit and no FA (like BC) and OOS publics that give no merit.

Yup, our family too. It's either an ivy or an in state public, maybe a merit-happy LAC. No in between.

I mean Ivys are great but they suck a bit at the moment. Rest of top 25 better IMO at the moment.

How so? The protests?

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Anonymous wrote:I want my kid to be a pavement engineer. Can't do that at the ivies.

What about what your kid wants? Maybe they want to help design ground breaking energy efficient materials with the latest research in mind? That type of thing is available at ivies/T10s with engineering. Why would you limit your kid to a very specific field of engineering, when they are in high school? Or ever, actually

NP- This type of major is available at many colleges, including non-Ivies. Do you think they work with ancient research in mind because they are not Ivies?

Pavement engineering I guarantee you is not taught at ivies. State colleges have far and away the best programs in it, and it's not as if that's the only field where that's true.

Seriously. My daughter's friend's dad graduated from the University of Tulsa with just a bachelor's degree and now stacks cheez as a petroleum engineer. Apparently TU has one of the best programs in the world. If he'd been pushed into an "elite" school by a parent like the OP, he'd probably be making a fraction of what he earns in his current job.

If we're talking about directions we want to push our kids in for college, I think major is more important to me than school rank. Employability out of undergrad is a huge factor. I'm not even talking about STEM vs. non STEM; I'm talking about even within STEM. A lot of popular STEM majors have just trash employability with a B.S.: everyone knows bio way overproduced due to pre meds, but even bioengineering/biomedical engineering you can't do much with a bachelor's, and neuroscience is probably the worst offender starting pay wise. May as well major in history and keep your GPA up.

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Anonymous wrote:When considering an undergrad school, IMO the most important thing is to look at the percentage of full professors who teach. It’s better to be taught by a Ph.D than a T.A. Second, look at class size. You are more likely to find a mentor who will help you on your career path in a class of 25 vs a class of 100 or more. For those reasons, students shouldn’t overlook schools like Mary Washington or Christopher Newport. Yes, UVA and VT have broader name recognition and more prestige, but professors at the smaller schools can really help you get into top-notch grad schools. I truly believe in the benefits of being a big fish in a small pond.

This was the lure for the Ivy and the SLAC my kid had set in their sites. They did not want a large school or one that heavily focuses on their grad students.

*sights

Anonymous wrote:When considering an undergrad school, IMO the most important thing is to look at the percentage of full professors who teach. It’s better to be taught by a Ph.D than a T.A. Second, look at class size. You are more likely to find a mentor who will help you on your career path in a class of 25 vs a class of 100 or more. For those reasons, students shouldn’t overlook schools like Mary Washington or Christopher Newport. Yes, UVA and VT have broader name recognition and more prestige, but professors at the smaller schools can really help you get into top-notch grad schools. I truly believe in the benefits of being a big fish in a small pond.

This was the lure for the Ivy and the SLAC my kid had set in their sites. They did not want a large school or one that heavily focuses on their grad students.

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Anonymous wrote:I want my kid to be a pavement engineer. Can't do that at the ivies.

What about what your kid wants? Maybe they want to help design ground breaking energy efficient materials with the latest research in mind? That type of thing is available at ivies/T10s with engineering. Why would you limit your kid to a very specific field of engineering, when they are in high school? Or ever, actually

NP- This type of major is available at many colleges, including non-Ivies. Do you think they work with ancient research in mind because they are not Ivies?

Pavement engineering I guarantee you is not taught at ivies. State colleges have far and away the best programs in it, and it's not as if that's the only field where that's true.

Seriously. My daughter's friend's dad graduated from the University of Tulsa with just a bachelor's degree and now stacks cheez as a petroleum engineer. Apparently TU has one of the best programs in the world. If he'd been pushed into an "elite" school by a parent like the OP, he'd probably be making a fraction of what he earns in his current job.

Anonymous wrote:My parents also wanted me to go to a top school. I got into three—two T25s and a T3 LAC. It still wasn't enough for them, so my last six months at home featured getting yelled at, guilt tripped, told that I was a failure, and hearing them insult my friends who got into Ivies. My experience is not unique.

This is the type of mentality that children like yours will have you face. This is why I'll stop speaking to my parents the day their tuition payments end. If you're okay with accepting that, then enjoy.

Now, that’s principle!

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Anonymous wrote:I want my kid to be a pavement engineer. Can't do that at the ivies.

What about what your kid wants? Maybe they want to help design ground breaking energy efficient materials with the latest research in mind? That type of thing is available at ivies/T10s with engineering. Why would you limit your kid to a very specific field of engineering, when they are in high school? Or ever, actually

NP- This type of major is available at many colleges, including non-Ivies. Do you think they work with ancient research in mind because they are not Ivies?

Pavement engineering I guarantee you is not taught at ivies. State colleges have far and away the best programs in it, and it's not as if that's the only field where that's true.

My parents also wanted me to go to a top school. I got into three—two T25s and a T3 LAC. It still wasn't enough for them, so my last six months at home featured getting yelled at, guilt tripped, told that I was a failure, and hearing them insult my friends who got into Ivies. My experience is not unique.

This is the type of mentality that children like yours will have you face. This is why I'll stop speaking to my parents the day their tuition payments end. If you're okay with accepting that, then enjoy.

I think people sometimes experience the articulation of different choices as an attack.

Calling someone’s kid a “loser,” or a “dull, uncreative sheep” is an attack. Saying “our family actively chooses a different path,” or “we are happy with our choice even though it’s not the same one you made” is not.

Unfortunately, the discussions are so loaded, and folks in this forum are so twitchy, they often experience such exchanges as attacks and judgment. It’s fascinating, really. People are so fascinating.

Anonymous wrote:of course you. it's because you think going to a top school will make your child happy. and parents want happiness for their child.

but it doesn't necessarily bring happiness. it might. but it also might not. just like going to a school a few notches below might bring happiness or not.

my niece worked herself to death to get into an ivy (she got into multiple) and picked the one she thought would be least pressure cooker (brown) and ended up miserable. she graduated but now has moved to a small town and is doing a menial job not related to her degree because her mental health got so bad from being on a treadmill that she wants to fully opt out of life's rat race.

It's been an eye-opening shock to our family.

Thanks for sharing this. It's true we just want happiness for our kids. And a top school doesn't guarantee or necessarily even correlate with that. It depends on other things unrelated to what school they attend for just four years.

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Anonymous wrote:I want my kid to be a pavement engineer. Can't do that at the ivies.

What about what your kid wants? Maybe they want to help design ground breaking energy efficient materials with the latest research in mind? That type of thing is available at ivies/T10s with engineering. Why would you limit your kid to a very specific field of engineering, when they are in high school? Or ever, actually

NP- This type of major is available at many colleges, including non-Ivies. Do you think they work with ancient research in mind because they are not Ivies?

Anonymous wrote:I want my kid to be a pavement engineer. Can't do that at the ivies.

What about what your kid wants? Maybe they want to help design ground breaking energy efficient materials with the latest research in mind? That type of thing is available at ivies/T10s with engineering. Why would you limit your kid to a very specific field of engineering, when they are in high school? Or ever, actually

I want my kids to go wherever you crazy people’s wunderkinds aren’t going.