Anonymous wrote:This whole thread is so sad. Sad for the kids whose former classmates were so rude to them (& those kids who will encounter plenty of AAP classmates who make them feel inferior), sad for the parents who want the best for their kids and feel like they somehow failed, sad for FCPS which have deteriorated. When it came to the AAP decision, we couldn't get past the fact that the base school has a lower quality of education (it's trending toward a Title I school). Kid is not nerdy, odd, or a genius, but a bright kid with lots of friends who does a ton of activities including sports. His base school education is necessarily diluted to address the needs of other kids who might not pass the SOL without a lot of extra help. Until FCPS does something to meet the needs of average and above average kids, parents like us are going to advocate for our children being included in the 20% of kids in FCPS who get at least a decent --if not a truly advanced--education. There have been trade-offs for our family too, like a long bus ride versus a short walk to school and a crappy center school building versus a fairly attractive base school facility. But in the end, the education rigor is what matters most to us, even if AAP is watered down and not what it once was. Sure, I'd go for "grouping" or even "tracking," but people would complain about that too. Some parents would fight to have their kids in the highest group no matter what, and DEI advocates would complain about it being inequitable. We're doing the best we can, knowing that we'll probably have to supplement at home for at least the K-6 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids in AAP. The older one spend the first semester in GE class before having cogAT test and then admitted into AAP. He was in 4th grade. He was identified as gifted at the previous school in a different state. Before he switched to AAP class, he made good friends with some very smart GE kids. I believe that He never thinks that GE kids are no smart. My younger one's admission experience is different. He got high score in NNAT and cogAT, he was in pool but got reject in the first round. He was not the only one. His best friend, who was in pool too, also got rejected. My younger one got in by appeal but his friend didn't. Because of the appeal, we missed the AAP tour. At the beginning of the 3rd grade, we saw who were in the AAP class. Our experience is that AAP kids are not necessarily the top students, GE class have some really smart kids. It's not always based on test , or IQ, or need. Du to the randomness, any smart kids could end up in either GE or AAP. This is just the beginning of their lives.

Yep. The kids at our high school who were accepted to Ivies were never in AAP during elementary and middle school. They were the under-the-radar kids who were actually brilliant but quiet and kept to themselves. Plenty of those kids are never chosen for AAP which makes the whole exercise even more shameful. Just allow kids to cycle in and out of flexible groupings, as needed, while creating a very selective, small GT program for kids who are truly gifted. The end.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center experience has been amazing and absolutely life changing for our DC. My other DC isn’t in AAP and doesn’t need it. They are happy and there isn’t some kind of smart / dumb type of animosity in our house.

Inevitably, my guess is the SB will probably move to dismantle the center system as LLIV is finally up and running everywhere. And even more, my guess is that LLIV will probably be moved to the cluster model in most places due to the segregation like optics of separate classes which really aren’t any better than separate schools if we look at it through an equity lens.

Given all the issues present in many low SES/ middle SES elementary schools, the cluster model will likely result in poorer outcomes for those kids.

I’m just happy my DC will have received a top notch elementary/MS education before the AAP system is changed. Sorry some kids said some mean things though.

Way to be smug and dismissive

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids in AAP. The older one spend the first semester in GE class before having cogAT test and then admitted into AAP. He was in 4th grade. He was identified as gifted at the previous school in a different state. Before he switched to AAP class, he made good friends with some very smart GE kids. I believe that He never thinks that GE kids are no smart. My younger one's admission experience is different. He got high score in NNAT and cogAT, he was in pool but got reject in the first round. He was not the only one. His best friend, who was in pool too, also got rejected. My younger one got in by appeal but his friend didn't. Because of the appeal, we missed the AAP tour. At the beginning of the 3rd grade, we saw who were in the AAP class. Our experience is that AAP kids are not necessarily the top students, GE class have some really smart kids. It's not always based on test , or IQ, or need. Du to the randomness, any smart kids could end up in either GE or AAP. This is just the beginning of their lives.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center experience has been amazing and absolutely life changing for our DC. My other DC isn’t in AAP and doesn’t need it. They are happy and there isn’t some kind of smart / dumb type of animosity in our house.

Inevitably, my guess is the SB will probably move to dismantle the center system as LLIV is finally up and running everywhere. And even more, my guess is that LLIV will probably be moved to the cluster model in most places due to the segregation like optics of separate classes which really aren’t any better than separate schools if we look at it through an equity lens.

Given all the issues present in many low SES/ middle SES elementary schools, the cluster model will likely result in poorer outcomes for those kids.

I’m just happy my DC will have received a top notch elementary/MS education before the AAP system is changed. Sorry some kids said some mean things though.

Could you explain how your center experience has been life changing? My kid attended an AAP center and was still underwhelmed by everything. He felt like he learned more in 3 hours of AoPS math and language arts classes than he did in an entire week of school. My kid's center was at best mildly accelerated and largely still filled with the station model for math, reading groups that never saw the teacher, lots of busywork, and lots of powerpoint presentations. I know that not all centers are the same, and I'm curious about what your center did differently to make the experience life changing for your kid.

NP. My first DC's center school experience was also life changing, a bit less dramatic for my second DC. The academics are a part of it, more the ELA and S/SS than Advanced Math since the teachers have generally only been so-so math teachers. The focus on critical thinking in the AAP curriculum has been targeted towards DC's weaknesses and has helped him learn and think. More importantly, the cohort and the teachers' comfort, familiarity with GT students who will question and correct errors and think out of the box.

My older DC found a group of kids who accepted and did not belittle his intelligence and quirks, unlike his GE classes. My younger DC found a group of kids who are very similar to him, playing pretend, writing fan fic, terrified of fire alarms, etc.

The center school model is unusual and a relic from a time when GT was considered important. It isn't anymore and FCPS is trying to dismantle it. There are a lot of people in the administration who are hostile to it and they are doing their best to get rid of it. OP's opinion is the majority opinion.

For the bolded, really?! At which school are kids belittling another kid's intelligence and quirks in the 2nd grade? Statistically, there were even another 4 or 5 AAP kids within your kid's 2nd grade classroom, and there should have been several kids above grade level. In FCPS, if anything kids are belittled for being "dumb" - not for being "too smart."

Also, you don't think gen ed kids play pretend or write fan fic? WTH?

DS has a friend that is smart and could careless about school. He is in Advanced Math and LIII but is not curious and has no external motivation to learn about a subject outside of what he has to at school. There are plenty of smart kids just like him. He was in-pool for LIV and had poor GBRS and HOPE scores (his parents applied this year.) There is no doubt that he is smart he is not motivated. His parents know this and applied for LIV again because they know he will do fine in it but he does the bare minimum at school and at home. Statistically, he is that kid you are talking about but he doesn't show it no matter who goads or prods him.

Kids are picked on for being smart and quirky. It happens all the time. The book worm, the kid always raising their hand, the kid who wants more math. Most of the kids could care less but there are kids who will use another kids intelligence and curiosity to target them.

I know kids from our neighborhood who moved to the Center due to bullying in the classroom, mainly because they stood out for their intelligence and other kids were ostracizing them for that reason. I can think of 3 off the top of my head who moved for that reason. The three kids, none were in my kids class but I spoke to their parents as we were deciding on moving to the Center or staying, all said that the kids just fit in better at the Center. They loved it there and have friends from the program still.

I know of one in my sons class who was loudly announcing he was going to the Center in 4th grade because he was smart and heard plenty of kids commenting that they were glad he was leaving. DS told me that he had issues in the classroom because of how he acted towards the other kids and his interests. I am not sure if his issues were that he was quirky or if he thought he was smarter then the others well before leaving for the Center and the other kids ignored him. No one seemed to be sad when he left. I saw him at a party the next year and his Mom said that he was struggling socially at the Center so I suspect it was personality more then anything else.

Again, I'm really curious about where this is happening. My kids attended a Title I ES. There were still quite a lot of bookworms, kids always raising their hands, and kids who loved math in every classroom. It wasn't some sort of weird thing that would cause a kid to be ostracized. The nerdy, AAP bound kids + the bright, nerdy kids who didn't get in were like 30% of the grade. Maybe boy vs. girl dynamics are different. Maybe things are different in an even lower SES school that places very few kids in AAP. Otherwise, at any school placing 15% or more of the grade into AAP, the whole idea of kids being picked on for nerdiness seems weird to me.

The bulk of the 15% who go to AAP aren't out of their element - the 1-3% who would still go to a more restricted G and T program probably are.

I have one of those kids. The old, more restricted GT program would have been life changing. AAP certainly was not. If anything, it was worse for my kid since he went from being a kid who didn't fit in and was bored with school, but wasn't picked on to being a kid who still didn't fit in, was still bored with school, but had to deal with other kids' jealousy. He was skipped up in math starting in 1st grade, so that stood out to his AAP peers and not necessarily in a good way.

To bring this back to OP's post - The parents of the mildly advanced, above average kids who get in think that AAP is the best thing ever, their kids truly need it, and their kids would never in a million years be mean to the kids not in the program. So, of course they see AAP as a net positive. It's a net negative for pretty much everyone else. Bringing the mildly advanced kids back to their base schools would prevent "smart" and "not smart" labels being permanently affixed to kids at the age of 7. It would give schools the flexibility to create leveled classes that can move kids up or down as needed based on performance. The truly gifted would benefit from a much more exclusive GT program.

FCPS is doing the right thing by moving to a cluster model, providing that they implement the clusters correctly. Some LLIV cluster schools have the kids switch classrooms for both math and language arts, where the top kids, whether they are AAP or not, are all grouped in the top classroom and so on down. Everyone's needs would be met without all of the drama and labeling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This sounds very unreal.

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years ... Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum. ... He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP...

Completely real. OP, My heart is broken for your son! NP, It sounds like he had the resilience to get through this, so congrats on parenting well done. We moved here when my son was in 5th grade and he didn't get in that year. It was a HUGE hit to his confidence and really impacted his entire view of himself. We learned that what AAP vs. NonAAP would truly mean, wasn't extra enrichment, but that some kids walk into school every day being told they are smart and capable, the others are labeled as "not as smart and not as capable." The lunch soccer games are AAP vs. Non-AAP. Every. Single. Day. And if you follow the threads here, you'll know that it's largely based on a subjective eval of cover letters and work samples. The kids are 7! FCPS, How is this any way to raise a next generation of leaders?? FCPS and particularly center schools do nothing to counter the message all the kids receive every single day.

OP, Hang in there. You didn't fail your son, FCPS did. If anything, talk to your principal. They should get out in front of this w/ second graders every spring (but they don't!) and they should be reinforcing positive messages through elementary. On the upside... it is fortunate that it sounds like your son is not at a center school. Fall will be much easier without that constant reminder.

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Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center experience has been amazing and absolutely life changing for our DC. My other DC isn’t in AAP and doesn’t need it. They are happy and there isn’t some kind of smart / dumb type of animosity in our house.

Inevitably, my guess is the SB will probably move to dismantle the center system as LLIV is finally up and running everywhere. And even more, my guess is that LLIV will probably be moved to the cluster model in most places due to the segregation like optics of separate classes which really aren’t any better than separate schools if we look at it through an equity lens.

Given all the issues present in many low SES/ middle SES elementary schools, the cluster model will likely result in poorer outcomes for those kids.

I’m just happy my DC will have received a top notch elementary/MS education before the AAP system is changed. Sorry some kids said some mean things though.

Could you explain how your center experience has been life changing? My kid attended an AAP center and was still underwhelmed by everything. He felt like he learned more in 3 hours of AoPS math and language arts classes than he did in an entire week of school. My kid's center was at best mildly accelerated and largely still filled with the station model for math, reading groups that never saw the teacher, lots of busywork, and lots of powerpoint presentations. I know that not all centers are the same, and I'm curious about what your center did differently to make the experience life changing for your kid.

NP. My first DC's center school experience was also life changing, a bit less dramatic for my second DC. The academics are a part of it, more the ELA and S/SS than Advanced Math since the teachers have generally only been so-so math teachers. The focus on critical thinking in the AAP curriculum has been targeted towards DC's weaknesses and has helped him learn and think. More importantly, the cohort and the teachers' comfort, familiarity with GT students who will question and correct errors and think out of the box.

My older DC found a group of kids who accepted and did not belittle his intelligence and quirks, unlike his GE classes. My younger DC found a group of kids who are very similar to him, playing pretend, writing fan fic, terrified of fire alarms, etc.

The center school model is unusual and a relic from a time when GT was considered important. It isn't anymore and FCPS is trying to dismantle it. There are a lot of people in the administration who are hostile to it and they are doing their best to get rid of it. OP's opinion is the majority opinion.

For the bolded, really?! At which school are kids belittling another kid's intelligence and quirks in the 2nd grade? Statistically, there were even another 4 or 5 AAP kids within your kid's 2nd grade classroom, and there should have been several kids above grade level. In FCPS, if anything kids are belittled for being "dumb" - not for being "too smart."

Also, you don't think gen ed kids play pretend or write fan fic? WTH?

DS has a friend that is smart and could careless about school. He is in Advanced Math and LIII but is not curious and has no external motivation to learn about a subject outside of what he has to at school. There are plenty of smart kids just like him. He was in-pool for LIV and had poor GBRS and HOPE scores (his parents applied this year.) There is no doubt that he is smart he is not motivated. His parents know this and applied for LIV again because they know he will do fine in it but he does the bare minimum at school and at home. Statistically, he is that kid you are talking about but he doesn't show it no matter who goads or prods him.

Kids are picked on for being smart and quirky. It happens all the time. The book worm, the kid always raising their hand, the kid who wants more math. Most of the kids could care less but there are kids who will use another kids intelligence and curiosity to target them.

I know kids from our neighborhood who moved to the Center due to bullying in the classroom, mainly because they stood out for their intelligence and other kids were ostracizing them for that reason. I can think of 3 off the top of my head who moved for that reason. The three kids, none were in my kids class but I spoke to their parents as we were deciding on moving to the Center or staying, all said that the kids just fit in better at the Center. They loved it there and have friends from the program still.

I know of one in my sons class who was loudly announcing he was going to the Center in 4th grade because he was smart and heard plenty of kids commenting that they were glad he was leaving. DS told me that he had issues in the classroom because of how he acted towards the other kids and his interests. I am not sure if his issues were that he was quirky or if he thought he was smarter then the others well before leaving for the Center and the other kids ignored him. No one seemed to be sad when he left. I saw him at a party the next year and his Mom said that he was struggling socially at the Center so I suspect it was personality more then anything else.

Again, I'm really curious about where this is happening. My kids attended a Title I ES. There were still quite a lot of bookworms, kids always raising their hands, and kids who loved math in every classroom. It wasn't some sort of weird thing that would cause a kid to be ostracized. The nerdy, AAP bound kids + the bright, nerdy kids who didn't get in were like 30% of the grade. Maybe boy vs. girl dynamics are different. Maybe things are different in an even lower SES school that places very few kids in AAP. Otherwise, at any school placing 15% or more of the grade into AAP, the whole idea of kids being picked on for nerdiness seems weird to me.

Just because you don't see it in your current class doesn't mean 1) It isn't happening. It could be happening but your kid is not reporting it because does not impact your kid. 2) It isn't happening in different classrooms.

DS reports nothing about what is happening at school, I hear a lot when he is car pooling with kids and there are kids who are struggling. My DS doesn't discuss it but other kids do. I have had to tell other kids that their words were not kind during that ride. Lack of hearing about it doesn't mean it is not happening.

The kid I know who left in 4th grade was someone I had never heard about before. I heard DS's friends discussing him bragging about leaving for the Center when they were hanging out. They were not kind in what they had to say about the kid.

There is more happening then you hear. And there is more happening then your kid might hear.

I don't disagree with you, but I am confused. Are you saying that you heard kids making fun of other kids for being too smart or for being bookworms? Or are the kids making fun of those who they think aren't as smart? Your second anecdote suggests that the 4th grade kid was being a jerk about other kids not being smart enough, and your DS's friends were mocking the kid for being an arrogant jerk.

PP's post suggested that kids were being like, "OMG. Look at Larla reading books over there. What a huge nerd. I don't hang out with weird nerds who raise their hands in class and read books." I'm having a hard time imagining anything like this, since even my kids' Title I school had plenty of kids who read voraciously, participated in class, and were above grade level.

I'm not trying to be aggressive about this. It seems implausible to me that a kid would be so alienated in the regular classroom, but when they move to the center alongside 5 other kids who were in that same classroom with them and 25 other kids from their school that they saw in specials and recess, they suddenly fit in perfectly.

Yes, there are kids picked on for being nerds in second grade. Some of those kids turn it into a "I'm smarter then you" retort and use that as their shield to deflect the negativity sent their way. It almost ups the ante to be the annoying "smart" kid bragging about being smart. A lot of bullying is based on kids being smart and picked on by kids who are struggling and turn their frustrations into attacks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This sounds very unreal.

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years ... Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum. ... He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center experience has been amazing and absolutely life changing for our DC. My other DC isn’t in AAP and doesn’t need it. They are happy and there isn’t some kind of smart / dumb type of animosity in our house.

Inevitably, my guess is the SB will probably move to dismantle the center system as LLIV is finally up and running everywhere. And even more, my guess is that LLIV will probably be moved to the cluster model in most places due to the segregation like optics of separate classes which really aren’t any better than separate schools if we look at it through an equity lens.

Given all the issues present in many low SES/ middle SES elementary schools, the cluster model will likely result in poorer outcomes for those kids.

I’m just happy my DC will have received a top notch elementary/MS education before the AAP system is changed. Sorry some kids said some mean things though.

Could you explain how your center experience has been life changing? My kid attended an AAP center and was still underwhelmed by everything. He felt like he learned more in 3 hours of AoPS math and language arts classes than he did in an entire week of school. My kid's center was at best mildly accelerated and largely still filled with the station model for math, reading groups that never saw the teacher, lots of busywork, and lots of powerpoint presentations. I know that not all centers are the same, and I'm curious about what your center did differently to make the experience life changing for your kid.

NP. My first DC's center school experience was also life changing, a bit less dramatic for my second DC. The academics are a part of it, more the ELA and S/SS than Advanced Math since the teachers have generally only been so-so math teachers. The focus on critical thinking in the AAP curriculum has been targeted towards DC's weaknesses and has helped him learn and think. More importantly, the cohort and the teachers' comfort, familiarity with GT students who will question and correct errors and think out of the box.

My older DC found a group of kids who accepted and did not belittle his intelligence and quirks, unlike his GE classes. My younger DC found a group of kids who are very similar to him, playing pretend, writing fan fic, terrified of fire alarms, etc.

The center school model is unusual and a relic from a time when GT was considered important. It isn't anymore and FCPS is trying to dismantle it. There are a lot of people in the administration who are hostile to it and they are doing their best to get rid of it. OP's opinion is the majority opinion.

For the bolded, really?! At which school are kids belittling another kid's intelligence and quirks in the 2nd grade? Statistically, there were even another 4 or 5 AAP kids within your kid's 2nd grade classroom, and there should have been several kids above grade level. In FCPS, if anything kids are belittled for being "dumb" - not for being "too smart."

Also, you don't think gen ed kids play pretend or write fan fic? WTH?

DS has a friend that is smart and could careless about school. He is in Advanced Math and LIII but is not curious and has no external motivation to learn about a subject outside of what he has to at school. There are plenty of smart kids just like him. He was in-pool for LIV and had poor GBRS and HOPE scores (his parents applied this year.) There is no doubt that he is smart he is not motivated. His parents know this and applied for LIV again because they know he will do fine in it but he does the bare minimum at school and at home. Statistically, he is that kid you are talking about but he doesn't show it no matter who goads or prods him.

Kids are picked on for being smart and quirky. It happens all the time. The book worm, the kid always raising their hand, the kid who wants more math. Most of the kids could care less but there are kids who will use another kids intelligence and curiosity to target them.

I know kids from our neighborhood who moved to the Center due to bullying in the classroom, mainly because they stood out for their intelligence and other kids were ostracizing them for that reason. I can think of 3 off the top of my head who moved for that reason. The three kids, none were in my kids class but I spoke to their parents as we were deciding on moving to the Center or staying, all said that the kids just fit in better at the Center. They loved it there and have friends from the program still.

I know of one in my sons class who was loudly announcing he was going to the Center in 4th grade because he was smart and heard plenty of kids commenting that they were glad he was leaving. DS told me that he had issues in the classroom because of how he acted towards the other kids and his interests. I am not sure if his issues were that he was quirky or if he thought he was smarter then the others well before leaving for the Center and the other kids ignored him. No one seemed to be sad when he left. I saw him at a party the next year and his Mom said that he was struggling socially at the Center so I suspect it was personality more then anything else.

Again, I'm really curious about where this is happening. My kids attended a Title I ES. There were still quite a lot of bookworms, kids always raising their hands, and kids who loved math in every classroom. It wasn't some sort of weird thing that would cause a kid to be ostracized. The nerdy, AAP bound kids + the bright, nerdy kids who didn't get in were like 30% of the grade. Maybe boy vs. girl dynamics are different. Maybe things are different in an even lower SES school that places very few kids in AAP. Otherwise, at any school placing 15% or more of the grade into AAP, the whole idea of kids being picked on for nerdiness seems weird to me.

Just because you don't see it in your current class doesn't mean 1) It isn't happening. It could be happening but your kid is not reporting it because does not impact your kid. 2) It isn't happening in different classrooms.

DS reports nothing about what is happening at school, I hear a lot when he is car pooling with kids and there are kids who are struggling. My DS doesn't discuss it but other kids do. I have had to tell other kids that their words were not kind during that ride. Lack of hearing about it doesn't mean it is not happening.

The kid I know who left in 4th grade was someone I had never heard about before. I heard DS's friends discussing him bragging about leaving for the Center when they were hanging out. They were not kind in what they had to say about the kid.

There is more happening then you hear. And there is more happening then your kid might hear.

I don't disagree with you, but I am confused. Are you saying that you heard kids making fun of other kids for being too smart or for being bookworms? Or are the kids making fun of those who they think aren't as smart? Your second anecdote suggests that the 4th grade kid was being a jerk about other kids not being smart enough, and your DS's friends were mocking the kid for being an arrogant jerk.

PP's post suggested that kids were being like, "OMG. Look at Larla reading books over there. What a huge nerd. I don't hang out with weird nerds who raise their hands in class and read books." I'm having a hard time imagining anything like this, since even my kids' Title I school had plenty of kids who read voraciously, participated in class, and were above grade level.

I'm not trying to be aggressive about this. It seems implausible to me that a kid would be so alienated in the regular classroom, but when they move to the center alongside 5 other kids who were in that same classroom with them and 25 other kids from their school that they saw in specials and recess, they suddenly fit in perfectly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center experience has been amazing and absolutely life changing for our DC. My other DC isn’t in AAP and doesn’t need it. They are happy and there isn’t some kind of smart / dumb type of animosity in our house.

Inevitably, my guess is the SB will probably move to dismantle the center system as LLIV is finally up and running everywhere. And even more, my guess is that LLIV will probably be moved to the cluster model in most places due to the segregation like optics of separate classes which really aren’t any better than separate schools if we look at it through an equity lens.

Given all the issues present in many low SES/ middle SES elementary schools, the cluster model will likely result in poorer outcomes for those kids.

I’m just happy my DC will have received a top notch elementary/MS education before the AAP system is changed. Sorry some kids said some mean things though.

Could you explain how your center experience has been life changing? My kid attended an AAP center and was still underwhelmed by everything. He felt like he learned more in 3 hours of AoPS math and language arts classes than he did in an entire week of school. My kid's center was at best mildly accelerated and largely still filled with the station model for math, reading groups that never saw the teacher, lots of busywork, and lots of powerpoint presentations. I know that not all centers are the same, and I'm curious about what your center did differently to make the experience life changing for your kid.

NP. My first DC's center school experience was also life changing, a bit less dramatic for my second DC. The academics are a part of it, more the ELA and S/SS than Advanced Math since the teachers have generally only been so-so math teachers. The focus on critical thinking in the AAP curriculum has been targeted towards DC's weaknesses and has helped him learn and think. More importantly, the cohort and the teachers' comfort, familiarity with GT students who will question and correct errors and think out of the box.

My older DC found a group of kids who accepted and did not belittle his intelligence and quirks, unlike his GE classes. My younger DC found a group of kids who are very similar to him, playing pretend, writing fan fic, terrified of fire alarms, etc.

The center school model is unusual and a relic from a time when GT was considered important. It isn't anymore and FCPS is trying to dismantle it. There are a lot of people in the administration who are hostile to it and they are doing their best to get rid of it. OP's opinion is the majority opinion.

For the bolded, really?! At which school are kids belittling another kid's intelligence and quirks in the 2nd grade? Statistically, there were even another 4 or 5 AAP kids within your kid's 2nd grade classroom, and there should have been several kids above grade level. In FCPS, if anything kids are belittled for being "dumb" - not for being "too smart."

Also, you don't think gen ed kids play pretend or write fan fic? WTH?

DS has a friend that is smart and could careless about school. He is in Advanced Math and LIII but is not curious and has no external motivation to learn about a subject outside of what he has to at school. There are plenty of smart kids just like him. He was in-pool for LIV and had poor GBRS and HOPE scores (his parents applied this year.) There is no doubt that he is smart he is not motivated. His parents know this and applied for LIV again because they know he will do fine in it but he does the bare minimum at school and at home. Statistically, he is that kid you are talking about but he doesn't show it no matter who goads or prods him.

Kids are picked on for being smart and quirky. It happens all the time. The book worm, the kid always raising their hand, the kid who wants more math. Most of the kids could care less but there are kids who will use another kids intelligence and curiosity to target them.

I know kids from our neighborhood who moved to the Center due to bullying in the classroom, mainly because they stood out for their intelligence and other kids were ostracizing them for that reason. I can think of 3 off the top of my head who moved for that reason. The three kids, none were in my kids class but I spoke to their parents as we were deciding on moving to the Center or staying, all said that the kids just fit in better at the Center. They loved it there and have friends from the program still.

I know of one in my sons class who was loudly announcing he was going to the Center in 4th grade because he was smart and heard plenty of kids commenting that they were glad he was leaving. DS told me that he had issues in the classroom because of how he acted towards the other kids and his interests. I am not sure if his issues were that he was quirky or if he thought he was smarter then the others well before leaving for the Center and the other kids ignored him. No one seemed to be sad when he left. I saw him at a party the next year and his Mom said that he was struggling socially at the Center so I suspect it was personality more then anything else.

Again, I'm really curious about where this is happening. My kids attended a Title I ES. There were still quite a lot of bookworms, kids always raising their hands, and kids who loved math in every classroom. It wasn't some sort of weird thing that would cause a kid to be ostracized. The nerdy, AAP bound kids + the bright, nerdy kids who didn't get in were like 30% of the grade. Maybe boy vs. girl dynamics are different. Maybe things are different in an even lower SES school that places very few kids in AAP. Otherwise, at any school placing 15% or more of the grade into AAP, the whole idea of kids being picked on for nerdiness seems weird to me.

The bulk of the 15% who go to AAP aren't out of their element - the 1-3% who would still go to a more restricted G and T program probably are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center experience has been amazing and absolutely life changing for our DC. My other DC isn’t in AAP and doesn’t need it. They are happy and there isn’t some kind of smart / dumb type of animosity in our house.

Inevitably, my guess is the SB will probably move to dismantle the center system as LLIV is finally up and running everywhere. And even more, my guess is that LLIV will probably be moved to the cluster model in most places due to the segregation like optics of separate classes which really aren’t any better than separate schools if we look at it through an equity lens.

Given all the issues present in many low SES/ middle SES elementary schools, the cluster model will likely result in poorer outcomes for those kids.

I’m just happy my DC will have received a top notch elementary/MS education before the AAP system is changed. Sorry some kids said some mean things though.

Could you explain how your center experience has been life changing? My kid attended an AAP center and was still underwhelmed by everything. He felt like he learned more in 3 hours of AoPS math and language arts classes than he did in an entire week of school. My kid's center was at best mildly accelerated and largely still filled with the station model for math, reading groups that never saw the teacher, lots of busywork, and lots of powerpoint presentations. I know that not all centers are the same, and I'm curious about what your center did differently to make the experience life changing for your kid.

NP. My first DC's center school experience was also life changing, a bit less dramatic for my second DC. The academics are a part of it, more the ELA and S/SS than Advanced Math since the teachers have generally only been so-so math teachers. The focus on critical thinking in the AAP curriculum has been targeted towards DC's weaknesses and has helped him learn and think. More importantly, the cohort and the teachers' comfort, familiarity with GT students who will question and correct errors and think out of the box.

My older DC found a group of kids who accepted and did not belittle his intelligence and quirks, unlike his GE classes. My younger DC found a group of kids who are very similar to him, playing pretend, writing fan fic, terrified of fire alarms, etc.

The center school model is unusual and a relic from a time when GT was considered important. It isn't anymore and FCPS is trying to dismantle it. There are a lot of people in the administration who are hostile to it and they are doing their best to get rid of it. OP's opinion is the majority opinion.

For the bolded, really?! At which school are kids belittling another kid's intelligence and quirks in the 2nd grade? Statistically, there were even another 4 or 5 AAP kids within your kid's 2nd grade classroom, and there should have been several kids above grade level. In FCPS, if anything kids are belittled for being "dumb" - not for being "too smart."

Also, you don't think gen ed kids play pretend or write fan fic? WTH?

DS has a friend that is smart and could careless about school. He is in Advanced Math and LIII but is not curious and has no external motivation to learn about a subject outside of what he has to at school. There are plenty of smart kids just like him. He was in-pool for LIV and had poor GBRS and HOPE scores (his parents applied this year.) There is no doubt that he is smart he is not motivated. His parents know this and applied for LIV again because they know he will do fine in it but he does the bare minimum at school and at home. Statistically, he is that kid you are talking about but he doesn't show it no matter who goads or prods him.

Kids are picked on for being smart and quirky. It happens all the time. The book worm, the kid always raising their hand, the kid who wants more math. Most of the kids could care less but there are kids who will use another kids intelligence and curiosity to target them.

I know kids from our neighborhood who moved to the Center due to bullying in the classroom, mainly because they stood out for their intelligence and other kids were ostracizing them for that reason. I can think of 3 off the top of my head who moved for that reason. The three kids, none were in my kids class but I spoke to their parents as we were deciding on moving to the Center or staying, all said that the kids just fit in better at the Center. They loved it there and have friends from the program still.

I know of one in my sons class who was loudly announcing he was going to the Center in 4th grade because he was smart and heard plenty of kids commenting that they were glad he was leaving. DS told me that he had issues in the classroom because of how he acted towards the other kids and his interests. I am not sure if his issues were that he was quirky or if he thought he was smarter then the others well before leaving for the Center and the other kids ignored him. No one seemed to be sad when he left. I saw him at a party the next year and his Mom said that he was struggling socially at the Center so I suspect it was personality more then anything else.

Again, I'm really curious about where this is happening. My kids attended a Title I ES. There were still quite a lot of bookworms, kids always raising their hands, and kids who loved math in every classroom. It wasn't some sort of weird thing that would cause a kid to be ostracized. The nerdy, AAP bound kids + the bright, nerdy kids who didn't get in were like 30% of the grade. Maybe boy vs. girl dynamics are different. Maybe things are different in an even lower SES school that places very few kids in AAP. Otherwise, at any school placing 15% or more of the grade into AAP, the whole idea of kids being picked on for nerdiness seems weird to me.

Just because you don't see it in your current class doesn't mean 1) It isn't happening. It could be happening but your kid is not reporting it because does not impact your kid. 2) It isn't happening in different classrooms.

DS reports nothing about what is happening at school, I hear a lot when he is car pooling with kids and there are kids who are struggling. My DS doesn't discuss it but other kids do. I have had to tell other kids that their words were not kind during that ride. Lack of hearing about it doesn't mean it is not happening.

The kid I know who left in 4th grade was someone I had never heard about before. I heard DS's friends discussing him bragging about leaving for the Center when they were hanging out. They were not kind in what they had to say about the kid.

There is more happening then you hear. And there is more happening then your kid might hear.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center experience has been amazing and absolutely life changing for our DC. My other DC isn’t in AAP and doesn’t need it. They are happy and there isn’t some kind of smart / dumb type of animosity in our house.

Inevitably, my guess is the SB will probably move to dismantle the center system as LLIV is finally up and running everywhere. And even more, my guess is that LLIV will probably be moved to the cluster model in most places due to the segregation like optics of separate classes which really aren’t any better than separate schools if we look at it through an equity lens.

Given all the issues present in many low SES/ middle SES elementary schools, the cluster model will likely result in poorer outcomes for those kids.

I’m just happy my DC will have received a top notch elementary/MS education before the AAP system is changed. Sorry some kids said some mean things though.

Could you explain how your center experience has been life changing? My kid attended an AAP center and was still underwhelmed by everything. He felt like he learned more in 3 hours of AoPS math and language arts classes than he did in an entire week of school. My kid's center was at best mildly accelerated and largely still filled with the station model for math, reading groups that never saw the teacher, lots of busywork, and lots of powerpoint presentations. I know that not all centers are the same, and I'm curious about what your center did differently to make the experience life changing for your kid.

NP. My first DC's center school experience was also life changing, a bit less dramatic for my second DC. The academics are a part of it, more the ELA and S/SS than Advanced Math since the teachers have generally only been so-so math teachers. The focus on critical thinking in the AAP curriculum has been targeted towards DC's weaknesses and has helped him learn and think. More importantly, the cohort and the teachers' comfort, familiarity with GT students who will question and correct errors and think out of the box.

My older DC found a group of kids who accepted and did not belittle his intelligence and quirks, unlike his GE classes. My younger DC found a group of kids who are very similar to him, playing pretend, writing fan fic, terrified of fire alarms, etc.

The center school model is unusual and a relic from a time when GT was considered important. It isn't anymore and FCPS is trying to dismantle it. There are a lot of people in the administration who are hostile to it and they are doing their best to get rid of it. OP's opinion is the majority opinion.

For the bolded, really?! At which school are kids belittling another kid's intelligence and quirks in the 2nd grade? Statistically, there were even another 4 or 5 AAP kids within your kid's 2nd grade classroom, and there should have been several kids above grade level. In FCPS, if anything kids are belittled for being "dumb" - not for being "too smart."

Also, you don't think gen ed kids play pretend or write fan fic? WTH?

DS has a friend that is smart and could careless about school. He is in Advanced Math and LIII but is not curious and has no external motivation to learn about a subject outside of what he has to at school. There are plenty of smart kids just like him. He was in-pool for LIV and had poor GBRS and HOPE scores (his parents applied this year.) There is no doubt that he is smart he is not motivated. His parents know this and applied for LIV again because they know he will do fine in it but he does the bare minimum at school and at home. Statistically, he is that kid you are talking about but he doesn't show it no matter who goads or prods him.

Kids are picked on for being smart and quirky. It happens all the time. The book worm, the kid always raising their hand, the kid who wants more math. Most of the kids could care less but there are kids who will use another kids intelligence and curiosity to target them.

I know kids from our neighborhood who moved to the Center due to bullying in the classroom, mainly because they stood out for their intelligence and other kids were ostracizing them for that reason. I can think of 3 off the top of my head who moved for that reason. The three kids, none were in my kids class but I spoke to their parents as we were deciding on moving to the Center or staying, all said that the kids just fit in better at the Center. They loved it there and have friends from the program still.

I know of one in my sons class who was loudly announcing he was going to the Center in 4th grade because he was smart and heard plenty of kids commenting that they were glad he was leaving. DS told me that he had issues in the classroom because of how he acted towards the other kids and his interests. I am not sure if his issues were that he was quirky or if he thought he was smarter then the others well before leaving for the Center and the other kids ignored him. No one seemed to be sad when he left. I saw him at a party the next year and his Mom said that he was struggling socially at the Center so I suspect it was personality more then anything else.

Again, I'm really curious about where this is happening. My kids attended a Title I ES. There were still quite a lot of bookworms, kids always raising their hands, and kids who loved math in every classroom. It wasn't some sort of weird thing that would cause a kid to be ostracized. The nerdy, AAP bound kids + the bright, nerdy kids who didn't get in were like 30% of the grade. Maybe boy vs. girl dynamics are different. Maybe things are different in an even lower SES school that places very few kids in AAP. Otherwise, at any school placing 15% or more of the grade into AAP, the whole idea of kids being picked on for nerdiness seems weird to me.

The bulk of the 15% who go to AAP aren't out of their element - the 1-3% who would still go to a more restricted G and T program probably are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AAP center experience has been amazing and absolutely life changing for our DC. My other DC isn’t in AAP and doesn’t need it. They are happy and there isn’t some kind of smart / dumb type of animosity in our house.

Inevitably, my guess is the SB will probably move to dismantle the center system as LLIV is finally up and running everywhere. And even more, my guess is that LLIV will probably be moved to the cluster model in most places due to the segregation like optics of separate classes which really aren’t any better than separate schools if we look at it through an equity lens.

Given all the issues present in many low SES/ middle SES elementary schools, the cluster model will likely result in poorer outcomes for those kids.

I’m just happy my DC will have received a top notch elementary/MS education before the AAP system is changed. Sorry some kids said some mean things though.

Could you explain how your center experience has been life changing? My kid attended an AAP center and was still underwhelmed by everything. He felt like he learned more in 3 hours of AoPS math and language arts classes than he did in an entire week of school. My kid's center was at best mildly accelerated and largely still filled with the station model for math, reading groups that never saw the teacher, lots of busywork, and lots of powerpoint presentations. I know that not all centers are the same, and I'm curious about what your center did differently to make the experience life changing for your kid.

NP. My first DC's center school experience was also life changing, a bit less dramatic for my second DC. The academics are a part of it, more the ELA and S/SS than Advanced Math since the teachers have generally only been so-so math teachers. The focus on critical thinking in the AAP curriculum has been targeted towards DC's weaknesses and has helped him learn and think. More importantly, the cohort and the teachers' comfort, familiarity with GT students who will question and correct errors and think out of the box.

My older DC found a group of kids who accepted and did not belittle his intelligence and quirks, unlike his GE classes. My younger DC found a group of kids who are very similar to him, playing pretend, writing fan fic, terrified of fire alarms, etc.

The center school model is unusual and a relic from a time when GT was considered important. It isn't anymore and FCPS is trying to dismantle it. There are a lot of people in the administration who are hostile to it and they are doing their best to get rid of it. OP's opinion is the majority opinion.

For the bolded, really?! At which school are kids belittling another kid's intelligence and quirks in the 2nd grade? Statistically, there were even another 4 or 5 AAP kids within your kid's 2nd grade classroom, and there should have been several kids above grade level. In FCPS, if anything kids are belittled for being "dumb" - not for being "too smart."

Also, you don't think gen ed kids play pretend or write fan fic? WTH?

DS has a friend that is smart and could careless about school. He is in Advanced Math and LIII but is not curious and has no external motivation to learn about a subject outside of what he has to at school. There are plenty of smart kids just like him. He was in-pool for LIV and had poor GBRS and HOPE scores (his parents applied this year.) There is no doubt that he is smart he is not motivated. His parents know this and applied for LIV again because they know he will do fine in it but he does the bare minimum at school and at home. Statistically, he is that kid you are talking about but he doesn't show it no matter who goads or prods him.

Kids are picked on for being smart and quirky. It happens all the time. The book worm, the kid always raising their hand, the kid who wants more math. Most of the kids could care less but there are kids who will use another kids intelligence and curiosity to target them.

I know kids from our neighborhood who moved to the Center due to bullying in the classroom, mainly because they stood out for their intelligence and other kids were ostracizing them for that reason. I can think of 3 off the top of my head who moved for that reason. The three kids, none were in my kids class but I spoke to their parents as we were deciding on moving to the Center or staying, all said that the kids just fit in better at the Center. They loved it there and have friends from the program still.

I know of one in my sons class who was loudly announcing he was going to the Center in 4th grade because he was smart and heard plenty of kids commenting that they were glad he was leaving. DS told me that he had issues in the classroom because of how he acted towards the other kids and his interests. I am not sure if his issues were that he was quirky or if he thought he was smarter then the others well before leaving for the Center and the other kids ignored him. No one seemed to be sad when he left. I saw him at a party the next year and his Mom said that he was struggling socially at the Center so I suspect it was personality more then anything else.

Again, I'm really curious about where this is happening. My kids attended a Title I ES. There were still quite a lot of bookworms, kids always raising their hands, and kids who loved math in every classroom. It wasn't some sort of weird thing that would cause a kid to be ostracized. The nerdy, AAP bound kids + the bright, nerdy kids who didn't get in were like 30% of the grade. Maybe boy vs. girl dynamics are different. Maybe things are different in an even lower SES school that places very few kids in AAP. Otherwise, at any school placing 15% or more of the grade into AAP, the whole idea of kids being picked on for nerdiness seems weird to me.