Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

AMAC has joined the conversation. The Mary Coup didn't work so now they'll go after the Title I schools.

PP here. I don't even know what AMAC is (I assume montessori?), so I can assure you I'm not part of it.

So then you’re like a clueless Northie who wants to keep your extra schools open? At the expense of a school like Drew?!??

Explain why Drew has to stay open when it can't fill itself. Other than politics and optics.

Because crowding is in south Arlington, particularly Oakridge/Hoffman Boston/Abingdon. APS "could" re-draw boundaries and send more kids to Drew. That fills Drew more and alleviates crowding in other schools.
3 of our 5 elementary option schools are south of Route 50. Relocating or eliminating one of them would open more seats for crowded south Arlington. Closing Drew only exacerbates the problem. The problem isn't Drew - it's APS' failure to make best use of it.
Also, as one previous intelligent poster commented, smaller school sizes for high poverty schools are better for those students. No, I don't have the studies on hand to link or reference; but it's out there.

+1 option schools in south Arlington don’t alleviate overcrowding. It takes up a neighborhood school that could better balance boundaries and demographics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My votes are Nottingham and Drew.

Where would you move these kids? Tell us how many you would put in each of the surrounding schools. I'll wait.

+1000

Where do you propose current Drew students go to elementary school? Abingdon? Oakridge?

Anonymous wrote:My votes are Nottingham and Drew.

Where would you move these kids? Tell us how many you would put in each of the surrounding schools. I'll wait.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at Campbell. This might be sacrilege but I’m not sure there’s any magic to it. (We came from a North Arlington school because the outdoor and experiential learning sounded good.) I do wonder if it’s mostly just a school for South Arlington families to escape to if they don’t like their zoned school.

Yes. It was essentially a default neighborhood option school for Glencarlyn who didn't want to send their kids to Carlin Springs. That neighborhood preference is gone from the admissions process; but clearly many continue to exercise the option to escape Carlin Springs. They will say it's because of the experiential learning program and because it's more walkable.

IME there is a sizeable group of families at every option school who go to that school because it is closer and convenient, not because of the specific program offered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

AMAC has joined the conversation. The Mary Coup didn't work so now they'll go after the Title I schools.

PP here. I don't even know what AMAC is (I assume montessori?), so I can assure you I'm not part of it.

So then you’re like a clueless Northie who wants to keep your extra schools open? At the expense of a school like Drew?!??

Explain why Drew has to stay open when it can't fill itself. Other than politics and optics.

Because crowding is in south Arlington, particularly Oakridge/Hoffman Boston/Abingdon. APS "could" re-draw boundaries and send more kids to Drew. That fills Drew more and alleviates crowding in other schools.
3 of our 5 elementary option schools are south of Route 50. Relocating or eliminating one of them would open more seats for crowded south Arlington. Closing Drew only exacerbates the problem. The problem isn't Drew - it's APS' failure to make best use of it.
Also, as one previous intelligent poster commented, smaller school sizes for high poverty schools are better for those students. No, I don't have the studies on hand to link or reference; but it's out there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

They are high performing because the class sizes are limited. It’s basically tax payer funded private school for the privileged few.

what do you mean by "the class sizes are limited"?

Option schools can cap the size of their classes, and turn students away because classes are filled. Neighborhood schools don't have that option. In our family's experience, the class sizes at our neighborhood elementary school were significantly larger than class sizes at nearby option schools.

Which school? How far back? Just looked at several years of traffic light reports and it doesn't seem to have been an issue for quite a while. It might have been a bubble in your kid's grade that they couldn't address by adding a class without then creating very small class sizes (and needing a trailer for that one additional class).

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

My experience has been that option schools fill up to the maximum planning factor, so tend to have big classes. Our neighborhood school often has smaller classes because they divide the kids into the correct number of classes to stay under the planning factor and this often results in smaller classes since the number rarely divides perfectly.

This was our experience as well. My kids were at overcrowded neighborhood schools but class sizes were always smaller than the planning factor. In contrast, my friend with kids at ATS always had the max class size allowed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

AMAC has joined the conversation. The Mary Coup didn't work so now they'll go after the Title I schools.

PP here. I don't even know what AMAC is (I assume montessori?), so I can assure you I'm not part of it.

So then you’re like a clueless Northie who wants to keep your extra schools open? At the expense of a school like Drew?!??

you seem nice

Thanks, I am. But I don’t suffer fools.

you seem lovely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at Campbell. This might be sacrilege but I’m not sure there’s any magic to it. (We came from a North Arlington school because the outdoor and experiential learning sounded good.) I do wonder if it’s mostly just a school for South Arlington families to escape to if they don’t like their zoned school.

Cool story. But this isn’t where we have a ridiculous surplus of seats, nor is it a program that is trying to expand and use a large portion of the APS budget to do so. It’s not really relevant to this discussion. Thanks anyway, since I guess you can just go back to your neighborhood school if it’s not what you were hoping for.

DP. It may not be relevant to the point you want to focus on. But it is certainly relevant to the discussion of what schools/programs should be closed/discontinued. The crowding is in SA, so perhaps eliminating an option program in SA would be a relevant consideration. And weighing the value of a particular option school is relevant. And it is clearly relevant to the questions and comments posed by previous posters whether option schools are mainly an escape valve for south arlington families or catering to wealthier white families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

AMAC has joined the conversation. The Mary Coup didn't work so now they'll go after the Title I schools.

PP here. I don't even know what AMAC is (I assume montessori?), so I can assure you I'm not part of it.

So then you’re like a clueless Northie who wants to keep your extra schools open? At the expense of a school like Drew?!??

Explain why Drew has to stay open when it can't fill itself. Other than politics and optics.

Anonymous wrote:We are at Campbell. This might be sacrilege but I’m not sure there’s any magic to it. (We came from a North Arlington school because the outdoor and experiential learning sounded good.) I do wonder if it’s mostly just a school for South Arlington families to escape to if they don’t like their zoned school.

Yes. It was essentially a default neighborhood option school for Glencarlyn who didn't want to send their kids to Carlin Springs. That neighborhood preference is gone from the admissions process; but clearly many continue to exercise the option to escape Carlin Springs. They will say it's because of the experiential learning program and because it's more walkable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get Montessori in PreK. Our family actually attended a satellite school at APS, and the program was really good. But in elementary? I've never heard of those fantastic academic outcomes of their students like you do for ATS and even immersion. And then most of the school goes to their neighborhood middle school. Why does this method need a whole pipeline and a shiny new school?

Who's doing it besides S. Arlington parents who want to escape their neighborhood schools? How many N. Arlington parents partake? Are they ATS lottery losers who just need to say their kids go to an "option school"? I'd like to see that data.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/08/2022-23-Transfer-Report.pdf

You will probably find the transfer report interesting.

So...
69.72% of Montessori comes from South Arlington.
86% of Campbell comes from South Arlington.
Immersion programs are generally split N/S; so that shows 50/50 participation.
ATS is 49.75% South Arlington; so again a 50/50 participation from north and south.

Less than half of HB come from 3 middle schools serving south Arlington, two of which also serve north arlington. (So favors north)
For high school HB, less than one-third come from Wakefield (28%). So 72% come from north Arlington. (favors north)
Even for W-L, 83 more transfer from YHS than from WHS. (favors north)
And 60% of Career Center, which I assume is (primarily?) Arlington Tech, come from WL and YHS. That's a straight lottery, yes? If so, favors north. Or is it "x" number of seats per school?

So what does that actually say?

This isn't your point, but I'd like to understand how BOTH Key and Claremont have kids from Abingdon, Fleet, Arlington Science Focus, Ashlawn, Barcroft, Barrett, Cardinal, Carling Springs, Drew, Hoffman Boston, Innovation, Long Branch, Oakridge, and Randolph.

I don't know exactly now; but I know in the past there have been "transfers" due to space availability. I'm sure it's more complex than that, however.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get Montessori in PreK. Our family actually attended a satellite school at APS, and the program was really good. But in elementary? I've never heard of those fantastic academic outcomes of their students like you do for ATS and even immersion. And then most of the school goes to their neighborhood middle school. Why does this method need a whole pipeline and a shiny new school?

Who's doing it besides S. Arlington parents who want to escape their neighborhood schools? How many N. Arlington parents partake? Are they ATS lottery losers who just need to say their kids go to an "option school"? I'd like to see that data.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/08/2022-23-Transfer-Report.pdf

You will probably find the transfer report interesting.

So...
69.72% of Montessori comes from South Arlington.
86% of Campbell comes from South Arlington.
Immersion programs are generally split N/S; so that shows 50/50 participation.
ATS is 49.75% South Arlington; so again a 50/50 participation from north and south.

Less than half of HB come from 3 middle schools serving south Arlington, two of which also serve north arlington. (So favors north)
For high school HB, less than one-third come from Wakefield (28%). So 72% come from north Arlington. (favors north)
Even for W-L, 83 more transfer from YHS than from WHS. (favors north)
And 60% of Career Center, which I assume is (primarily?) Arlington Tech, come from WL and YHS. That's a straight lottery, yes? If so, favors north. Or is it "x" number of seats per school?

So what does that actually say?

This isn't your point, but I'd like to understand how BOTH Key and Claremont have kids from Abingdon, Fleet, Arlington Science Focus, Ashlawn, Barcroft, Barrett, Cardinal, Carling Springs, Drew, Hoffman Boston, Innovation, Long Branch, Oakridge, and Randolph.

Some are probably kids who's parents moved during the school year but are being allowed to complete the year.

I don't know if they'd allow a kid to stay >1 year if their parents moved elsewhere in Arlington in the upper grades and there was still room in the class, as new non-native Spanish speakers can't join the program at that point. That doesn't seem crazy.

To clarify, new non-native Spanish speakers can and do join immersion in later grades. They just have to pass a Spanish language test and there must be space available.

Mid-year moves could explain some of this, assuming parents remember to update their address with the school. IIRC the boundary change 2 years ago allowed then 4th graders to finish elementary school wherever they were, so they would be 5th graders this year. That would be Cardinal (previously McKinley), Tuckahoe, and Nottingham. Seven kids in the Cardinal zone are at Claremont, so perhaps the boundary change explains some of that number. No Tuckahoe or Notthingham kids are, according to the report. What sticks out to me is the Fleet and Hoffman-Boston numbers. Twelve kids living in the Fleet zone are at Claremont. Eight kids living in the Hoffman-Boston zone are at Key. Neither changed zones in either of the last two boundary changes (2021 and 2022). I guess the good news is it overall it is roughly a wash with 29 kids at Claremont living in the Key zone and 28 kids at Key living in the Claremont zone. Maybe space is an issue? Maybe if you move to another immersion zone you can stay at your original school if the school you move to doesn’t have space?

29 Claremont: Arlington Science Focus (1), Fleet (12), Ashlawn (1), Barrett (3), Cardinal (7), Innovation (3), Long Branch (2)
28 Key: Abingdon (5), Barcroft (2), Carlin Springs (6), Drew (5), Hoffman Boston (8), Oakridge (2)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

They are high performing because the class sizes are limited. It’s basically tax payer funded private school for the privileged few.

what do you mean by "the class sizes are limited"?

Option schools can cap the size of their classes, and turn students away because classes are filled. Neighborhood schools don't have that option. In our family's experience, the class sizes at our neighborhood elementary school were significantly larger than class sizes at nearby option schools.

Which school? How far back? Just looked at several years of traffic light reports and it doesn't seem to have been an issue for quite a while. It might have been a bubble in your kid's grade that they couldn't address by adding a class without then creating very small class sizes (and needing a trailer for that one additional class).

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

My experience has been that option schools fill up to the maximum planning factor, so tend to have big classes. Our neighborhood school often has smaller classes because they divide the kids into the correct number of classes to stay under the planning factor and this often results in smaller classes since the number rarely divides perfectly.

If you look at the stop light charts, its clear than once in a while there is one grade in one school where the planning factor for 4th grade is 24 and they have 105 kids so they made four classes of 26/27 instead of dividing into five classes of 21 -- probably because they didn't have an extra room and didn't have the budget for a teacher and a trailer. That grade was a little bigger than the planning factor for 4th grade, and probably 5th grade as well. You may have felt like your kid was in a big class, but it doesn't mean neighborhood schools are consistently losing out relative to the option schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

They are high performing because the class sizes are limited. It’s basically tax payer funded private school for the privileged few.

what do you mean by "the class sizes are limited"?

Option schools can cap the size of their classes, and turn students away because classes are filled. Neighborhood schools don't have that option. In our family's experience, the class sizes at our neighborhood elementary school were significantly larger than class sizes at nearby option schools.

Which school? How far back? Just looked at several years of traffic light reports and it doesn't seem to have been an issue for quite a while. It might have been a bubble in your kid's grade that they couldn't address by adding a class without then creating very small class sizes (and needing a trailer for that one additional class).

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

My experience has been that option schools fill up to the maximum planning factor, so tend to have big classes. Our neighborhood school often has smaller classes because they divide the kids into the correct number of classes to stay under the planning factor and this often results in smaller classes since the number rarely divides perfectly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

They are high performing because the class sizes are limited. It’s basically tax payer funded private school for the privileged few.

what do you mean by "the class sizes are limited"?

Option schools can cap the size of their classes, and turn students away because classes are filled. Neighborhood schools don't have that option. In our family's experience, the class sizes at our neighborhood elementary school were significantly larger than class sizes at nearby option schools.

Class sizes are specified by the planning factors and are the same for all schools (except Montessori which has higher class sizes but has aides). Option schools don't have lower planning factors than other schools. Neighborhood schools may be affected by late registrations or people moving in-boundary during the school year, but people also move away.

Correct. This was a few years back. The neighborhood school was significantly overenrolled, and the option schools were not. Are you saying class sizes are the same throughout APS? This was not our family's experience or observation.

Different poster. Take a look at the class size reports. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2024/06/CSR-Revised-5.7.24.pdf

I've known of APS teachers hired in the fall, after neighborhood schools see how many more kids show up than they were planning on (late enrollments), and then have dreamy small classes, like less than 15 kids.