Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

Because it can easily be a bad decision that never pays off...in fact it has a negative opportunity cost. Why would you fund a bad decision that may end up with a worse life outcome?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

You do appreciate that "very poor" people are literally just trying to survive. It is maybe .01% of very poor people that are in a position to make their kids high achievers.

What rubbish! Are we talking about people living in a waitron place that are just trying to survive? The "very poor" people in US are still doing alright. If you can speak, read and write English, and have access to a library - your kids can be enriched at home by you. If the parents are drug addicts, mentally sick and you are living in a cardboard box then they should not be having kids in the first place.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

You do appreciate that "very poor" people are literally just trying to survive. It is maybe .01% of very poor people that are in a position to make their kids high achievers.

What rubbish! Are we talking about people living in a waitron place that are just trying to survive? The "very poor" people in US are still doing alright. If you can speak, read and write English, and have access to a library - your kids can be enriched at home by you. If the parents are drug addicts, mentally sick and you are living in a cardboard box then they should not be having kids in the first place.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

You do appreciate that "very poor" people are literally just trying to survive. It is maybe .01% of very poor people that are in a position to make their kids high achievers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

Anonymous wrote:We wanted to pay for our kids' college (public school budget) because our parents did that for us. For me, it was going to a good CA state U, living on campus but had to turn down more expensive private schools. for DS it was living at home to go to the local university, the only place he applied to as a working class kid who'd never been expected to go to college.

Starting off with no loan payments is a huge gift.

We took the same approach my parents did - we set a budget of in-state public cost and let them apply where they wanted. Both picked schools in our budget (one in-state and one OOS) and grandparents ended up paying for one year for each of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people I know didn't have loans.

Are most of the people you know from very upper class families?

No, it was just cheaper back then. But now that I think about it, I know people who had grad school loans.

I don't know a single person who didn't have undergrad loans who wasn't very wealthy. (class of '89)

Considering college was cheaper back then, this exemplifies why the pressure for middle class to pay all of it is becoming unrealistic. There was a separate thread about saving $1M(!!!!).

Only the very wealthy can do that, or perhaps middle class who essentially live poorly and/or have some form of generational wealth (like didn't have loans, unexpected inheritance, etc.) to help them in that pursuit.

College was not that much cheaper given incomes and inflation. A private was still $40-50k 30 years ago.

No it wasn't. I attended a T10 uni, graduated in 93 (that university is now 90K+). My last year the total cost/all-in with all fees/travel/etc was estimated at 27K. My first year (took 5 years for 2 degrees) was ~$20 or 21K.

But the differential between private/public was still huge. My public U cost <$2k in tuition/fees (can't recall the room & board cost) so my parents insisted I do that vs. private college that they felt was too expensive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We plan pay between 80-100% of an in state public undergraduate degree. The way that loan companies go after young adults who have zero experience is shameful and can impact them for the rest of their lives.

For grad school, we’ll work with them on choices and financial pros/cons but it will be their money at that point.

Usually parents do 50/50 split on grad school. Your money is more their money. You will be dead soon anyhow

I don't think this is true at all.

They can use their inheritance to pay off what remains of their grad school loans.

I'm 55, my parents are early/mid 80s and still going strong. Most people could be 60+ before they "get their inheritance". Smart parents (if they have the money) will help kids with grad school and avoid the major interest collection

My parent gave my sister an interest-free loan for grad school, which I think is a good way to handle it. I would do the same for our kids but also, as a late-50s with one surviving mid-80s parent in poor health, we might consider paying for grad school with the stipulation that it will come out of the kid's share of the inheritance from grandma (since my dad died recently and we helped mom with financial stuff, I have a pretty good sense of what to expect).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people I know didn't have loans.

Are most of the people you know from very upper class families?

No, it was just cheaper back then. But now that I think about it, I know people who had grad school loans.

I don't know a single person who didn't have undergrad loans who wasn't very wealthy. (class of '89)

Considering college was cheaper back then, this exemplifies why the pressure for middle class to pay all of it is becoming unrealistic. There was a separate thread about saving $1M(!!!!).

Only the very wealthy can do that, or perhaps middle class who essentially live poorly and/or have some form of generational wealth (like didn't have loans, unexpected inheritance, etc.) to help them in that pursuit.

DP to add, even becoming unrealistic for UMC. UMC can perhaps cover state tuition if they plan very well, but private tuition for more than one kid? It's like fully owning 3 houses.

Umc can afford college. It’s about lifestyle choices.

Depends on a lot. Are you UMC because you got there quickly with generational wealth, your parents helped you pay for college and/or cars previously, a down payment on a house, etc. Or are you UMC after spending 1-2 decades paying off prior loans, saving for a down payment (in our case, $3k was all we could afford on a fixer upper in an "undesirable" area), and climbing the ladder?

Are you UMC technically by national income standards but MC in an urban area because you are beholden to a job in a HCOL area? FAFSA doesn't care if you live in DC or rural flyover country. My income is $120k but would be $40k less outside of the DMV area. DH would also earn considerably less.

But yes, we're UMC technically speaking. No, we won't be able to afford to send our kids full ride.

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.