Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Part of why it's gotten so insanely expensive to go to many colleges is because families that are UMC are expected to shoulder not just the cost of their own kid attending but all the kids that are attending for free or at low rates. I want those kids to go to college too but that should be funded from either government money or endowments not jacking up tuition on other families struggling to pay for school too.

💯

That’s the big secret of the schools that no one talks about. Who is really funding all of the need blind awards. It’s not the endowments. And it’s def not the government.

It’s the fact that tuition goes up every year and insane amount and families with over $300,000 in income are expected to be full pay. That is robbery from one group to satisfy the other.

Another +1

TO me the bigger issue is merit aid that takes away from the pot of money for financial need. If all that emrit aid went into the financial need jar, the income level you need to have to qualify for need based aid would be higher.

My nieces and nephews and cousins got 20 to 30k in merit aid for tons of schools. These are very well off kids whose parents can absolutely afford to be full pay. I'd rather see that money go to middle class kids, not kids whose parents make half a million a year.

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Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.

This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.

Ability to pay is often at the cost of liquidating retirement funds, home equity, life style and nursing home savings.

Shouldn't be. The top schools have excellent need based FA. Many who would be a fafsa doughnut hole would get FA. To be paying full price means, you are well off in earnings and non-retirement assets. Even home equity is often capped (not 2nd or 3rd home of course).

The real problem is failing to save. No one should expect to cashflow college. We started saving when kids in elementary and thought we were late to the game.

Bullsh. First of all, by the time you get to college aged kids, you may be making the most salary you've made. But almost no one makes that their entire career. We saved and save a LOT. We have old cars. No second home. No generational wealth. We have good retirement. Those are the things we've funded: college and retirement.

But all of those things are counted against us, as if we can cashflow $50-90k/year. We can't. And we aren't getting aid. We've made our peace with the schools are high stats kid can go (based on finances) and have had to forego much better schools b/c of money. It should not be this way.

I get that those of you not as well off like to dump on higher earners (UMC) to make yourselves feel better. But we've done everything right. Both coming from just above poverty line upbringings. The "American Dream" of work hard and good things flow from that is a bunch of horse sh-- when it comes to college admissions and sending your kids to the best school. The very wealthy get that opportunity. The poor get that opportunity. No one else.

You live under your means, you save starting at birth and when your income increases you save it vs changing your spending.

Will you be repeating this same ridiculous, tone-deaf message when the cost of elite schools exceeds $100K/year? $200K? Just save, sacrifice, drive an old car?

At what point in your view is it just not possible for donut hole families?

And why is this ok again?

The point is when you choose an expensive house, cars, vacations and lifestyle while others of us save and don't do those things on equal or less income, why do you feel entitled to tons of aid while we have to full pay?

It's all about choices. You chose to have the house, fancy cars, fancy vacations and fancy lifestyle and not save as much for college. No problem with that. As long as you don't now feel entitled to financial aid.
If I cannot afford a $80K car, I buy a $30K Honda/Toyota. I don't complain that it's not fair. Or I drive my current car another 2-3 years and actively save so that I can afford a nicer car (maybe a $50K). But I dont' complain that others can afford it and life isn't fair.
Same with a house or vacations. We lived our 20s paying off college debt and saving saving saving. Didn't have kids until we were 30+ so we could be financially sound. We were mid to late 30s before we took "fancy vacations". We still enjoyed life, just did it on a reasonable budget. But we knew plenty of people who spent spent spent. Maybe it was worth it for them. maybe not. I just know I don't regret getting a strong financial base when young, even if it meant forgoing "luxury items"

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Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it's ridiculous. Send your kid to a decent public school - there are plenty of them.

Most likely what we are doing- W&M or UVA

I just read all these people fighting over prestige and it’s crazy. My kid got into many of these schools they are raving about, but not worth the $.

Has your child been accepted to either of those schools? Not an easy get. Also - some kids are not a good fit for huge state schools. So - why do you care how others spend their money?

My DC has been accepted in state to w&m. The estimated cost for in state is $43k. Insane!

Welcome to the New World. That’s what I’ve been trying to tell family (incl DH) and until they looked it up themselves, they just didn’t believe me. Their “oh just go to [UVA/VT/W&M]” doesn’t fly. First, your DC has to get in (congrats, btw!!), then you’ve literally got to justify the multiple six-figures to go. Our household is having issues with the latter so some plans have been majorly (all puns intended?) changed.

I’m not really complaining but it sure is a bit of a bitter pill to swallow.

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Anonymous wrote:My god— my niece paid $100k freshmen year to attend Boston College.

It’s not very different from Georgetown or any of the SLACs.

My child has been accepted to some very adjective universities (5-6%%) acceptance rate—but paying $70k more per year over the very good VA public university seems ludicrous.

This is the point we have come to in higher education. A $400k undergrad degree?

Yep, we are at this same realization. We've saved a lot and thought it would be enough. It's not. We are foregoing all of those big, fancy schools as it does not make sense. Once out of grad school it will not matter that DC went to Bridgewater vs. Boston College. Sorry, it won't.

These prices are unsustainable and it's absurd we accept them as "normal" now.

Yes. My cousin just received his Master’s at Hopkins (Baltimore campus) after GMU. It’s the last school he attended that employees care about. Landed a great job.

That’s exactly what I told my kid and what he plans to do.

The private expensive colleges are getting weird socially anyway. Multigenerational wealth and low income people is a recipe for clique formation.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.

This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.

Ability to pay is often at the cost of liquidating retirement funds, home equity, life style and nursing home savings.

Shouldn't be. The top schools have excellent need based FA. Many who would be a fafsa doughnut hole would get FA. To be paying full price means, you are well off in earnings and non-retirement assets. Even home equity is often capped (not 2nd or 3rd home of course).

The real problem is failing to save. No one should expect to cashflow college. We started saving when kids in elementary and thought we were late to the game.

Bullsh. First of all, by the time you get to college aged kids, you may be making the most salary you've made. But almost no one makes that their entire career. We saved and save a LOT. We have old cars. No second home. No generational wealth. We have good retirement. Those are the things we've funded: college and retirement.

But all of those things are counted against us, as if we can cashflow $50-90k/year. We can't. And we aren't getting aid. We've made our peace with the schools are high stats kid can go (based on finances) and have had to forego much better schools b/c of money. It should not be this way.

I get that those of you not as well off like to dump on higher earners (UMC) to make yourselves feel better. But we've done everything right. Both coming from just above poverty line upbringings. The "American Dream" of work hard and good things flow from that is a bunch of horse sh-- when it comes to college admissions and sending your kids to the best school. The very wealthy get that opportunity. The poor get that opportunity. No one else.

You live under your means, you save starting at birth and when your income increases you save it vs changing your spending.

Will you be repeating this same ridiculous, tone-deaf message when the cost of elite schools exceeds $100K/year? $200K? Just save, sacrifice, drive an old car?

At what point in your view is it just not possible for donut hole families?

And why is this ok again?

The point is when you choose an expensive house, cars, vacations and lifestyle while others of us save and don't do those things on equal or less income, why do you feel entitled to tons of aid while we have to full pay?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it's ridiculous. Send your kid to a decent public school - there are plenty of them.

Most likely what we are doing- W&M or UVA

I just read all these people fighting over prestige and it’s crazy. My kid got into many of these schools they are raving about, but not worth the $.

Don't say you don't care about prestige and then throw out you're planning on UVA or W&M. GMAFB.

Or that their kid applied to the schools and are now not going to accept. Why apply?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it's ridiculous. Send your kid to a decent public school - there are plenty of them.

Most likely what we are doing- W&M or UVA

I just read all these people fighting over prestige and it’s crazy. My kid got into many of these schools they are raving about, but not worth the $.

Has your child been accepted to either of those schools? Not an easy get. Also - some kids are not a good fit for huge state schools. So - why do you care how others spend their money?

My DC has been accepted in state to w&m. The estimated cost for in state is $43k. Insane!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it's ridiculous. Send your kid to a decent public school - there are plenty of them.

Most likely what we are doing- W&M or UVA

I just read all these people fighting over prestige and it’s crazy. My kid got into many of these schools they are raving about, but not worth the $.

Don't say you don't care about prestige and then throw out you're planning on UVA or W&M. GMAFB.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.

This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.

Ability to pay is often at the cost of liquidating retirement funds, home equity, life style and nursing home savings.

Shouldn't be. The top schools have excellent need based FA. Many who would be a fafsa doughnut hole would get FA. To be paying full price means, you are well off in earnings and non-retirement assets. Even home equity is often capped (not 2nd or 3rd home of course).

The real problem is failing to save. No one should expect to cashflow college. We started saving when kids in elementary and thought we were late to the game.

Bullsh. First of all, by the time you get to college aged kids, you may be making the most salary you've made. But almost no one makes that their entire career. We saved and save a LOT. We have old cars. No second home. No generational wealth. We have good retirement. Those are the things we've funded: college and retirement.

But all of those things are counted against us, as if we can cashflow $50-90k/year. We can't. And we aren't getting aid. We've made our peace with the schools are high stats kid can go (based on finances) and have had to forego much better schools b/c of money. It should not be this way.

I get that those of you not as well off like to dump on higher earners (UMC) to make yourselves feel better. But we've done everything right. Both coming from just above poverty line upbringings. The "American Dream" of work hard and good things flow from that is a bunch of horse sh-- when it comes to college admissions and sending your kids to the best school. The very wealthy get that opportunity. The poor get that opportunity. No one else.

You live under your means, you save starting at birth and when your income increases you save it vs changing your spending.

Will you be repeating this same ridiculous, tone-deaf message when the cost of elite schools exceeds $100K/year? $200K? Just save, sacrifice, drive an old car?

At what point in your view is it just not possible for donut hole families?

And why is this ok again?

Anonymous wrote:I just filled out the NPC for Boston College with 180 AGI + 30k untaxed. Total cost of attendance $63K. Not nothing but not $100k.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.

This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.

Ability to pay when that ability means constant struggle, isn’t really comfortable.

Families with more than one kid and $250-300k don’t get financial aid. Paying $180-200k/year for kids’ tuition isn’t easy.

250k does at top tier schools, especially with more than one in at the same time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why it's gotten so insanely expensive to go to many colleges is because families that are UMC are expected to shoulder not just the cost of their own kid attending but all the kids that are attending for free or at low rates. I want those kids to go to college too but that should be funded from either government money or endowments not jacking up tuition on other families struggling to pay for school too.

💯

That’s the big secret of the schools that no one talks about. Who is really funding all of the need blind awards. It’s not the endowments. And it’s def not the government.

It’s the fact that tuition goes up every year and insane amount and families with over $300,000 in income are expected to be full pay. That is robbery from one group to satisfy the other.

Another +1

TO me the bigger issue is merit aid that takes away from the pot of money for financial need. If all that emrit aid went into the financial need jar, the income level you need to have to qualify for need based aid would be higher.

My nieces and nephews and cousins got 20 to 30k in merit aid for tons of schools. These are very well off kids whose parents can absolutely afford to be full pay. I'd rather see that money go to middle class kids, not kids whose parents make half a million a year.

Anonymous wrote:A tiny subset of people think it's smart and shows "value" by saving for 18 years - skipping out on taking kids to see London or having an apartment with a third bedroom - so you can blow it all for 4 years of Vassar. Just so that kid can then grow up to save and scrimp for 18 years in their 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment with 1.4 kids

Most Americans making 250k feel fine about having a 4th kid, putting in a pool, buying that Serena and Lilly patio set, going to see the World Cup, sending their parents on a cruise, buying their 18 year old a car, throwing a big wedding, writing a check for kid's downpayment and generally enjoying life. Sure, their kids go to U of Illinois or Wisconsin. Guess what? They have a ball and then get the same jobs as our kids.

DCUM is home to that first tiny subset. Most Americans do not find this life at all aspirational.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A tiny subset of people think it's smart and shows "value" by saving for 18 years - skipping out on taking kids to see London or having an apartment with a third bedroom - so you can blow it all for 4 years of Vassar. Just so that kid can then grow up to save and scrimp for 18 years in their 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment with 1.4 kids

Most Americans making 250k feel fine about having a 4th kid, putting in a pool, buying that Serena and Lilly patio set, going to see the World Cup, sending their parents on a cruise, buying their 18 year old a car, throwing a big wedding, writing a check for kid's downpayment and generally enjoying life. Sure, their kids go to U of Illinois or Wisconsin. Guess what? They have a ball and then get the same jobs as our kids.

DCUM is home to that first tiny subset. Most Americans do not find this life at all aspirational.

No, honey, we live like that to pay for a state school. So, yes, I'd love to take my kid to London but I'd rather pay for college and grad school for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of why it's gotten so insanely expensive to go to many colleges is because families that are UMC are expected to shoulder not just the cost of their own kid attending but all the kids that are attending for free or at low rates. I want those kids to go to college too but that should be funded from either government money or endowments not jacking up tuition on other families struggling to pay for school too.

💯

That’s the big secret of the schools that no one talks about. Who is really funding all of the need blind awards. It’s not the endowments. And it’s def not the government.

It’s the fact that tuition goes up every year and insane amount and families with over $300,000 in income are expected to be full pay. That is robbery from one group to satisfy the other.

Another +1

TO me the bigger issue is merit aid that takes away from the pot of money for financial need. If all that emrit aid went into the financial need jar, the income level you need to have to qualify for need based aid would be higher.

My nieces and nephews and cousins got 20 to 30k in merit aid for tons of schools. These are very well off kids whose parents can absolutely afford to be full pay. I'd rather see that money go to middle class kids, not kids whose parents make half a million a year.