Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eat healthy. Exercise. Done.

Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.

NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol

That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point

Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.

Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.

Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?

Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.

The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.

Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.

Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."

This affects all of us. The OP is an entitled brat. Here is the post for your failed memory:

I have 25 pounds to lose. I do workout regularly but am menopausal and am really having a difficult time with diet. Insurance won’t cover weight loss drugs for me. My BMI is close to normal.

How long until the free shit army demands these drugs along with a bunch of other handouts? How much more are these people going to foist on to others to clean up their mess?

This thread of full of people demanding other humans give away their work for free. That’s effectively the premise of the entire thread. Isn’t it enough that people are way out of energy consumption balance and already sucking up extra resources? Now we need to ensure wide availability of novel pharmaceuticals to clean up a mess of their own making? It’s like idiocracy and we are talking about brawndo

Make that your last glass of wine tonight

Sorry, I don’t drink. This is a typical reply on here when the responder doesn’t have anything rational to say. I wrote the above after swimming 3500 yards which followed an hour running. What did you do productive today besides try and free ride on others?

Maybe we can have these threads moved to the Health and Medicine Forum. I come here to gain inspiration from others who train hard in whatever they love doing, eat healthy, and whatever works for them to keep them going. A magic drug does not inspire me.

Why did you click this thread if it is not of interest to you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eat healthy. Exercise. Done.

Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.

NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol

That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point

Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.

Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.

Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?

Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.

The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.

Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.

Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."

I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.

I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.

+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.

Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.

And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?

It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.

There but for the grace of God…

NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.

Okay. Here’s my truth.In 2000, before PPD was screened for or treated well (especially in the rural South, where I lived at the time) I had a premie who almost died— more than once, while I stood there. I finally got her home, but literally stopped sleeping at all over a period of months because she was high SIDs risk. I was afraid she would die if I wasn’t watching her 24/7. So I did. And I developed crippling anxiety and depression. But, I kept getting up and caring for my child, because that was my job. Just like you are saying depressed and anxious people should do. I tried to push through. (Plus, there was an ADHD toddler in the mix). And I didn’t tell anyone how bad it was and how in over my head I was, because mothers are supposed to instantly bond with their babies and feel all love and wonder all the time and enjoy every minute. I couldn’t admit out loud that I didn’t feel overwhelming love and awe. I felt crippling anxiety every moment of every day and by month I hated myself more and more because I was a crappy mother— because a good mother wouldn’t pray that her kids would just go away for a week or two so she could sleep and take care of herself. And I loved my kids so much, I knew they deserved amazing parents— so not me. Eventually, I decided that my kids would be better off if I wasn’t there. And better off if I died before they could even remember me, because I was that terrible a parent. So, I celebrate my daughters first birthday. And the next day called in sick with a “migraine”. And took every pill I could find. And woke up three days later on a ventilator. The path back was so long and so hard and the depression was so intense that two years later (after trying so many meds and so much therapy) we seriously considered electroshock therapy.

I could have asked for help months earlier. I could have started medication and therapy 9 months earlier when I realized I had a problem. But I didn’t- because of your TRUTH that anxiety and depression could be managed by sheer willpower and that it was shameful to need medication and therapy and medical interventions because of PPD. After all, love for your children and willpower can solve these issues. I believed that. And when it didn’t, I decided I was so defective that my kids were better off without me. And now, 20+ years later, no one besides my husband, parents, in-laws. And doctors know this about me. Because it’s still shameful to admit you tried kill yourself while parenting young children (and because I would never want my children o know and feel that they in any way, at any point drove to suicide.

So here’s a TRUTH— mental illness, ADHD, substance abuse, obesity — these are not moral failings. They are are usually a combination of bad genetics, difficult circumstances, a person’s environment and biochemical imbalances. And when you say these disease are self inflicted or easily controlled with willpower, people become afraid to admit they need treatment because of the stigma— you would judge them for not just powering through. And because you would rather see people like me die than take advantage of medications like Zoloft and Zepbound and interventions like psychotherapy.

Jesus Christ woman, post partum depression is of course a real (and temporary) condition that is known about and of course needs acute treatment. It’s unfortunate they didn’t screen for it when you needed help (or that you chose not to get screened when you knew you had a problem- your statements are actually contradictory). But your story doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority or people suffering from anxiety or depression are NOT dealing with PPD and would be BETTER OFF making the lifestyle changes that have been discussed. (IOW - *everything* is not about *you*)

And I ALREADY SAID these are not moral failings but you apparently refuse to acknowledge that because you are so determined to be a victim. I also never said that depression and anxiety can be managed through “sheer willpower” or that taking medication is “shameful”. You are putting words in my mouth. Your last paragraph is not only ridiculously over dramatic, it is a really disgusting and unfounded accusation against me (I don’t want to see anyone die, what a nasty, horrible thing to say).

DP. You really are a piece of work. G-d grant you the continued good fortune to never deal with a serious mental illness.

Why do you assume that I don’t? Why do you assume that I don’t practice what I preach?

I think some if you need anger management classes more than you need anxiety meds.

At this point I have no doubt that you are dealing with some sort of mental illness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eat healthy. Exercise. Done.

Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.

NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol

That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point

Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.

Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.

Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?

Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.

The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.

Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.

Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."

I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.

I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.

+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.

Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.

And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?

It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.

There but for the grace of God…

NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.

Okay. Here’s my truth.In 2000, before PPD was screened for or treated well (especially in the rural South, where I lived at the time) I had a premie who almost died— more than once, while I stood there. I finally got her home, but literally stopped sleeping at all over a period of months because she was high SIDs risk. I was afraid she would die if I wasn’t watching her 24/7. So I did. And I developed crippling anxiety and depression. But, I kept getting up and caring for my child, because that was my job. Just like you are saying depressed and anxious people should do. I tried to push through. (Plus, there was an ADHD toddler in the mix). And I didn’t tell anyone how bad it was and how in over my head I was, because mothers are supposed to instantly bond with their babies and feel all love and wonder all the time and enjoy every minute. I couldn’t admit out loud that I didn’t feel overwhelming love and awe. I felt crippling anxiety every moment of every day and by month I hated myself more and more because I was a crappy mother— because a good mother wouldn’t pray that her kids would just go away for a week or two so she could sleep and take care of herself. And I loved my kids so much, I knew they deserved amazing parents— so not me. Eventually, I decided that my kids would be better off if I wasn’t there. And better off if I died before they could even remember me, because I was that terrible a parent. So, I celebrate my daughters first birthday. And the next day called in sick with a “migraine”. And took every pill I could find. And woke up three days later on a ventilator. The path back was so long and so hard and the depression was so intense that two years later (after trying so many meds and so much therapy) we seriously considered electroshock therapy.

I could have asked for help months earlier. I could have started medication and therapy 9 months earlier when I realized I had a problem. But I didn’t- because of your TRUTH that anxiety and depression could be managed by sheer willpower and that it was shameful to need medication and therapy and medical interventions because of PPD. After all, love for your children and willpower can solve these issues. I believed that. And when it didn’t, I decided I was so defective that my kids were better off without me. And now, 20+ years later, no one besides my husband, parents, in-laws. And doctors know this about me. Because it’s still shameful to admit you tried kill yourself while parenting young children (and because I would never want my children o know and feel that they in any way, at any point drove to suicide.

So here’s a TRUTH— mental illness, ADHD, substance abuse, obesity — these are not moral failings. They are are usually a combination of bad genetics, difficult circumstances, a person’s environment and biochemical imbalances. And when you say these disease are self inflicted or easily controlled with willpower, people become afraid to admit they need treatment because of the stigma— you would judge them for not just powering through. And because you would rather see people like me die than take advantage of medications like Zoloft and Zepbound and interventions like psychotherapy.

Jesus Christ woman, post partum depression is of course a real (and temporary) condition that is known about and of course needs acute treatment. It’s unfortunate they didn’t screen for it when you needed help (or that you chose not to get screened when you knew you had a problem- your statements are actually contradictory). But your story doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority or people suffering from anxiety or depression are NOT dealing with PPD and would be BETTER OFF making the lifestyle changes that have been discussed. (IOW - *everything* is not about *you*)

And I ALREADY SAID these are not moral failings but you apparently refuse to acknowledge that because you are so determined to be a victim. I also never said that depression and anxiety can be managed through “sheer willpower” or that taking medication is “shameful”. You are putting words in my mouth. Your last paragraph is not only ridiculously over dramatic, it is a really disgusting and unfounded accusation against me (I don’t want to see anyone die, what a nasty, horrible thing to say).

DP. You really are a piece of work. G-d grant you the continued good fortune to never deal with a serious mental illness.

Why do you assume that I don’t? Why do you assume that I don’t practice what I preach?

I think some if you need anger management classes more than you need anxiety meds.

You just wrote a multi-paragraph screed in response to a post about a woman’s battle with a sick baby, PPD and suicide. you have ISH.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we truly know the long term effects of these drugs? Everyone I know on it has indeed lost weight but they look sickly. No fat, no muscle mass, skin just laying on bones. It is as if they were deprived of nutrients.

The hate just never stops. Yeah, Oprah and Kelly and so many celebs who used the drug really look exactly like you described. I use them as examples because they are famous and people know them. I lost 60 lbs over more than a year. I are healthy and exercised and didn’t lose the weight super quickly. I look like nothing you describe. I’m also keeping it off (a year so far) without Ozempic. But you know what I DID lose in addition to pounds? High BP and high cholesterol. My IBS is a lot better managed too. But as far long term, feel free to use Google and educate yourself. But of course you won’t.

I guess we will have to ask in 10 years about some of the potential long-term side affects.

“There are some negative implications of Ozempic, particularly its correlation with various health factors, including, thyroid cancer, pancreatitis, and pancreatic cancer, hypoglycemia risks, acute kidney injury occurrences, gallbladder events, gastrointestinal disturbances, and cardiovascular effects.”

You can only hope.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eat healthy. Exercise. Done.

Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.

NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol

That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point

Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.

Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.

Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?

Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.

The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.

Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.

Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."

I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.

I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.

+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.

Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.

And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?

It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.

There but for the grace of God…

NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves on social media. You are not telling THE TRUTH. You are stating your misinformed opinion but you believe in your BS so HARD that you think it's the truth. It's an opinion. An uneducated one. So maybe go get a medical degree, spend a year reading research on these drugs and how to treat obesity and secondary diseases that accompany it, or simply STFU.

I’m sorry, you clearly have a lot more issues than obesity to be so filled with hate and rage. But no, “eating fewer calories than you burn will cause weight loss” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). “Keeping busy physically to keep you out of your own head all day will help with depression and anxiety” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). And on and on.

I think the fundamental problem is that when you “try” these things and it’s not an INSTANT fix you decide it “doesn’t work”. That’s why you want pills and injections, because the sustained effort required to deal with these issues yourself is difficult.

DP. You have serious issues with wanting to control other people. My guess is you are projecting. You’re so terrified that you will lose control that you have to lash out at people who are doing something that you cannot admit you want - avail yourself of an easy solution to a problem. At some point you internalized a message that being thin is a moral mandate and it terrifies you to be faced with people who don’t see it that way. Because if you lose the security of knowing you are good because you are thin, what else is left for you?

This is a bizarre response. I’m not trying to control anyone, but I refuse to pretend that obesity is some uncontrollable disease just to protect others’ egos. I’m gaining weight as I age but I know it’s because I’m eating more and moving less than I used to. I don’t feel like a bad person or a moral failure, but I also know d@mn well that my weight gain is 100% my own “fault” and I could lose it if I really wanted to.

You are on here haranguing people repeatedly for taking a medication to lose weight. You’re fighting some kind of psychological proxy battle; could not be more obvious! Generally this kind of behavior is a defense mechanism of some sort. My guess is you strongly rely on notions of “fault” and “self control” for your identity, and it really disturbs you to see that these may not be necessary anymore when it comes to weight.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eat healthy. Exercise. Done.

Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.

NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol

That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point

Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.

Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.

Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?

Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.

The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.

Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.

Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."

I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.

I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.

+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.

Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.

And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?

It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.

There but for the grace of God…

NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.

Okay. Here’s my truth.In 2000, before PPD was screened for or treated well (especially in the rural South, where I lived at the time) I had a premie who almost died— more than once, while I stood there. I finally got her home, but literally stopped sleeping at all over a period of months because she was high SIDs risk. I was afraid she would die if I wasn’t watching her 24/7. So I did. And I developed crippling anxiety and depression. But, I kept getting up and caring for my child, because that was my job. Just like you are saying depressed and anxious people should do. I tried to push through. (Plus, there was an ADHD toddler in the mix). And I didn’t tell anyone how bad it was and how in over my head I was, because mothers are supposed to instantly bond with their babies and feel all love and wonder all the time and enjoy every minute. I couldn’t admit out loud that I didn’t feel overwhelming love and awe. I felt crippling anxiety every moment of every day and by month I hated myself more and more because I was a crappy mother— because a good mother wouldn’t pray that her kids would just go away for a week or two so she could sleep and take care of herself. And I loved my kids so much, I knew they deserved amazing parents— so not me. Eventually, I decided that my kids would be better off if I wasn’t there. And better off if I died before they could even remember me, because I was that terrible a parent. So, I celebrate my daughters first birthday. And the next day called in sick with a “migraine”. And took every pill I could find. And woke up three days later on a ventilator. The path back was so long and so hard and the depression was so intense that two years later (after trying so many meds and so much therapy) we seriously considered electroshock therapy.

I could have asked for help months earlier. I could have started medication and therapy 9 months earlier when I realized I had a problem. But I didn’t- because of your TRUTH that anxiety and depression could be managed by sheer willpower and that it was shameful to need medication and therapy and medical interventions because of PPD. After all, love for your children and willpower can solve these issues. I believed that. And when it didn’t, I decided I was so defective that my kids were better off without me. And now, 20+ years later, no one besides my husband, parents, in-laws. And doctors know this about me. Because it’s still shameful to admit you tried kill yourself while parenting young children (and because I would never want my children o know and feel that they in any way, at any point drove to suicide.

So here’s a TRUTH— mental illness, ADHD, substance abuse, obesity — these are not moral failings. They are are usually a combination of bad genetics, difficult circumstances, a person’s environment and biochemical imbalances. And when you say these disease are self inflicted or easily controlled with willpower, people become afraid to admit they need treatment because of the stigma— you would judge them for not just powering through. And because you would rather see people like me die than take advantage of medications like Zoloft and Zepbound and interventions like psychotherapy.

Jesus Christ woman, post partum depression is of course a real (and temporary) condition that is known about and of course needs acute treatment. It’s unfortunate they didn’t screen for it when you needed help (or that you chose not to get screened when you knew you had a problem- your statements are actually contradictory). But your story doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority or people suffering from anxiety or depression are NOT dealing with PPD and would be BETTER OFF making the lifestyle changes that have been discussed. (IOW - *everything* is not about *you*)

And I ALREADY SAID these are not moral failings but you apparently refuse to acknowledge that because you are so determined to be a victim. I also never said that depression and anxiety can be managed through “sheer willpower” or that taking medication is “shameful”. You are putting words in my mouth. Your last paragraph is not only ridiculously over dramatic, it is a really disgusting and unfounded accusation against me (I don’t want to see anyone die, what a nasty, horrible thing to say).

DP. You really are a piece of work. G-d grant you the continued good fortune to never deal with a serious mental illness.

Why do you assume that I don’t? Why do you assume that I don’t practice what I preach?

I think some if you need anger management classes more than you need anxiety meds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used it to lose 15 pounds. I paid out of pocket. Even though I was not technically overweight, I am prediabetic and had a hard time losing with menopause. I work out every day and eat really healthy. My family is thin and diabetic. In order to get my glucose levels lower, I needed to lose at least 10 pounds.

Congrats! I bet you look and feel great now. I for one have enjoyed the face gains and increased confidence.

What about rebound? I’d take it to lose 20lbs but I’m worried about it coming right back and then more. I believe my ideal weight (for BP and joints) is 20lb lighter but I’m really not unhealthy at this weight …

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eat healthy. Exercise. Done.

Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.

NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol

That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point

Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.

Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.

Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?

Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.

The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.

Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.

Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."

I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.

I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.

+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.

Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.

And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?

It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.

There but for the grace of God…

NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves on social media. You are not telling THE TRUTH. You are stating your misinformed opinion but you believe in your BS so HARD that you think it's the truth. It's an opinion. An uneducated one. So maybe go get a medical degree, spend a year reading research on these drugs and how to treat obesity and secondary diseases that accompany it, or simply STFU.

I’m sorry, you clearly have a lot more issues than obesity to be so filled with hate and rage. But no, “eating fewer calories than you burn will cause weight loss” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). “Keeping busy physically to keep you out of your own head all day will help with depression and anxiety” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). And on and on.

I think the fundamental problem is that when you “try” these things and it’s not an INSTANT fix you decide it “doesn’t work”. That’s why you want pills and injections, because the sustained effort required to deal with these issues yourself is difficult.

DP. You have serious issues with wanting to control other people. My guess is you are projecting. You’re so terrified that you will lose control that you have to lash out at people who are doing something that you cannot admit you want - avail yourself of an easy solution to a problem. At some point you internalized a message that being thin is a moral mandate and it terrifies you to be faced with people who don’t see it that way. Because if you lose the security of knowing you are good because you are thin, what else is left for you?

This is a bizarre response. I’m not trying to control anyone, but I refuse to pretend that obesity is some uncontrollable disease just to protect others’ egos. I’m gaining weight as I age but I know it’s because I’m eating more and moving less than I used to. I don’t feel like a bad person or a moral failure, but I also know d@mn well that my weight gain is 100% my own “fault” and I could lose it if I really wanted to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eat healthy. Exercise. Done.

Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.

NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol

That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point

Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.

Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.

Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?

Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.

The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.

Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.

Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."

I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.

I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.

+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.

Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.

And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?

It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.

There but for the grace of God…

NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.

Okay. Here’s my truth.In 2000, before PPD was screened for or treated well (especially in the rural South, where I lived at the time) I had a premie who almost died— more than once, while I stood there. I finally got her home, but literally stopped sleeping at all over a period of months because she was high SIDs risk. I was afraid she would die if I wasn’t watching her 24/7. So I did. And I developed crippling anxiety and depression. But, I kept getting up and caring for my child, because that was my job. Just like you are saying depressed and anxious people should do. I tried to push through. (Plus, there was an ADHD toddler in the mix). And I didn’t tell anyone how bad it was and how in over my head I was, because mothers are supposed to instantly bond with their babies and feel all love and wonder all the time and enjoy every minute. I couldn’t admit out loud that I didn’t feel overwhelming love and awe. I felt crippling anxiety every moment of every day and by month I hated myself more and more because I was a crappy mother— because a good mother wouldn’t pray that her kids would just go away for a week or two so she could sleep and take care of herself. And I loved my kids so much, I knew they deserved amazing parents— so not me. Eventually, I decided that my kids would be better off if I wasn’t there. And better off if I died before they could even remember me, because I was that terrible a parent. So, I celebrate my daughters first birthday. And the next day called in sick with a “migraine”. And took every pill I could find. And woke up three days later on a ventilator. The path back was so long and so hard and the depression was so intense that two years later (after trying so many meds and so much therapy) we seriously considered electroshock therapy.

I could have asked for help months earlier. I could have started medication and therapy 9 months earlier when I realized I had a problem. But I didn’t- because of your TRUTH that anxiety and depression could be managed by sheer willpower and that it was shameful to need medication and therapy and medical interventions because of PPD. After all, love for your children and willpower can solve these issues. I believed that. And when it didn’t, I decided I was so defective that my kids were better off without me. And now, 20+ years later, no one besides my husband, parents, in-laws. And doctors know this about me. Because it’s still shameful to admit you tried kill yourself while parenting young children (and because I would never want my children o know and feel that they in any way, at any point drove to suicide.

So here’s a TRUTH— mental illness, ADHD, substance abuse, obesity — these are not moral failings. They are are usually a combination of bad genetics, difficult circumstances, a person’s environment and biochemical imbalances. And when you say these disease are self inflicted or easily controlled with willpower, people become afraid to admit they need treatment because of the stigma— you would judge them for not just powering through. And because you would rather see people like me die than take advantage of medications like Zoloft and Zepbound and interventions like psychotherapy.

Jesus Christ woman, post partum depression is of course a real (and temporary) condition that is known about and of course needs acute treatment. It’s unfortunate they didn’t screen for it when you needed help (or that you chose not to get screened when you knew you had a problem- your statements are actually contradictory). But your story doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority or people suffering from anxiety or depression are NOT dealing with PPD and would be BETTER OFF making the lifestyle changes that have been discussed. (IOW - *everything* is not about *you*)

And I ALREADY SAID these are not moral failings but you apparently refuse to acknowledge that because you are so determined to be a victim. I also never said that depression and anxiety can be managed through “sheer willpower” or that taking medication is “shameful”. You are putting words in my mouth. Your last paragraph is not only ridiculously over dramatic, it is a really disgusting and unfounded accusation against me (I don’t want to see anyone die, what a nasty, horrible thing to say).

DP. You really are a piece of work. G-d grant you the continued good fortune to never deal with a serious mental illness.

Anonymous wrote:I used it to lose 15 pounds. I paid out of pocket. Even though I was not technically overweight, I am prediabetic and had a hard time losing with menopause. I work out every day and eat really healthy. My family is thin and diabetic. In order to get my glucose levels lower, I needed to lose at least 10 pounds.

Congrats! I bet you look and feel great now. I for one have enjoyed the face gains and increased confidence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eat healthy. Exercise. Done.

Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.

NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol

That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point

Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.

Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.

Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?

Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.

The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.

Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.

Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."

I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.

I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.

+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.

Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.

And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?

It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.

There but for the grace of God…

NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.

Okay. Here’s my truth.In 2000, before PPD was screened for or treated well (especially in the rural South, where I lived at the time) I had a premie who almost died— more than once, while I stood there. I finally got her home, but literally stopped sleeping at all over a period of months because she was high SIDs risk. I was afraid she would die if I wasn’t watching her 24/7. So I did. And I developed crippling anxiety and depression. But, I kept getting up and caring for my child, because that was my job. Just like you are saying depressed and anxious people should do. I tried to push through. (Plus, there was an ADHD toddler in the mix). And I didn’t tell anyone how bad it was and how in over my head I was, because mothers are supposed to instantly bond with their babies and feel all love and wonder all the time and enjoy every minute. I couldn’t admit out loud that I didn’t feel overwhelming love and awe. I felt crippling anxiety every moment of every day and by month I hated myself more and more because I was a crappy mother— because a good mother wouldn’t pray that her kids would just go away for a week or two so she could sleep and take care of herself. And I loved my kids so much, I knew they deserved amazing parents— so not me. Eventually, I decided that my kids would be better off if I wasn’t there. And better off if I died before they could even remember me, because I was that terrible a parent. So, I celebrate my daughters first birthday. And the next day called in sick with a “migraine”. And took every pill I could find. And woke up three days later on a ventilator. The path back was so long and so hard and the depression was so intense that two years later (after trying so many meds and so much therapy) we seriously considered electroshock therapy.

I could have asked for help months earlier. I could have started medication and therapy 9 months earlier when I realized I had a problem. But I didn’t- because of your TRUTH that anxiety and depression could be managed by sheer willpower and that it was shameful to need medication and therapy and medical interventions because of PPD. After all, love for your children and willpower can solve these issues. I believed that. And when it didn’t, I decided I was so defective that my kids were better off without me. And now, 20+ years later, no one besides my husband, parents, in-laws. And doctors know this about me. Because it’s still shameful to admit you tried kill yourself while parenting young children (and because I would never want my children o know and feel that they in any way, at any point drove to suicide.

So here’s a TRUTH— mental illness, ADHD, substance abuse, obesity — these are not moral failings. They are are usually a combination of bad genetics, difficult circumstances, a person’s environment and biochemical imbalances. And when you say these disease are self inflicted or easily controlled with willpower, people become afraid to admit they need treatment because of the stigma— you would judge them for not just powering through. And because you would rather see people like me die than take advantage of medications like Zoloft and Zepbound and interventions like psychotherapy.

Jesus Christ woman, post partum depression is of course a real (and temporary) condition that is known about and of course needs acute treatment. It’s unfortunate they didn’t screen for it when you needed help (or that you chose not to get screened when you knew you had a problem- your statements are actually contradictory). But your story doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority or people suffering from anxiety or depression are NOT dealing with PPD and would be BETTER OFF making the lifestyle changes that have been discussed. (IOW - *everything* is not about *you*)

And I ALREADY SAID these are not moral failings but you apparently refuse to acknowledge that because you are so determined to be a victim. I also never said that depression and anxiety can be managed through “sheer willpower” or that taking medication is “shameful”. You are putting words in my mouth. Your last paragraph is not only ridiculously over dramatic, it is a really disgusting and unfounded accusation against me (I don’t want to see anyone die, what a nasty, horrible thing to say).

Anonymous wrote:After 3 years of not working out, I am doing fast walking on the tread mill every day for half an hour and on the weekends for an hour. My 15 lbs. is going away without dietary changes. Seems painless, only positive side effects and free as I had the treadmill for a long while.

Why don't you walk outside?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eat healthy. Exercise. Done.

Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.

NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol

That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point

Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.

Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.

Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?

Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.

The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.

Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.

Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."

I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.

I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.

+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.

Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.

And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?

It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.

There but for the grace of God…

NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.

Okay. Here’s my truth.In 2000, before PPD was screened for or treated well (especially in the rural South, where I lived at the time) I had a premie who almost died— more than once, while I stood there. I finally got her home, but literally stopped sleeping at all over a period of months because she was high SIDs risk. I was afraid she would die if I wasn’t watching her 24/7. So I did. And I developed crippling anxiety and depression. But, I kept getting up and caring for my child, because that was my job. Just like you are saying depressed and anxious people should do. I tried to push through. (Plus, there was an ADHD toddler in the mix). And I didn’t tell anyone how bad it was and how in over my head I was, because mothers are supposed to instantly bond with their babies and feel all love and wonder all the time and enjoy every minute. I couldn’t admit out loud that I didn’t feel overwhelming love and awe. I felt crippling anxiety every moment of every day and by month I hated myself more and more because I was a crappy mother— because a good mother wouldn’t pray that her kids would just go away for a week or two so she could sleep and take care of herself. And I loved my kids so much, I knew they deserved amazing parents— so not me. Eventually, I decided that my kids would be better off if I wasn’t there. And better off if I died before they could even remember me, because I was that terrible a parent. So, I celebrate my daughters first birthday. And the next day called in sick with a “migraine”. And took every pill I could find. And woke up three days later on a ventilator. The path back was so long and so hard and the depression was so intense that two years later (after trying so many meds and so much therapy) we seriously considered electroshock therapy.

I could have asked for help months earlier. I could have started medication and therapy 9 months earlier when I realized I had a problem. But I didn’t- because of your TRUTH that anxiety and depression could be managed by sheer willpower and that it was shameful to need medication and therapy and medical interventions because of PPD. After all, love for your children and willpower can solve these issues. I believed that. And when it didn’t, I decided I was so defective that my kids were better off without me. And now, 20+ years later, no one besides my husband, parents, in-laws. And doctors know this about me. Because it’s still shameful to admit you tried kill yourself while parenting young children (and because I would never want my children o know and feel that they in any way, at any point drove to suicide.

So here’s a TRUTH— mental illness, ADHD, substance abuse, obesity — these are not moral failings. They are are usually a combination of bad genetics, difficult circumstances, a person’s environment and biochemical imbalances. And when you say these disease are self inflicted or easily controlled with willpower, people become afraid to admit they need treatment because of the stigma— you would judge them for not just powering through. And because you would rather see people like me die than take advantage of medications like Zoloft and Zepbound and interventions like psychotherapy.

Anonymous wrote:My physician tried to get it covered for me and my insurance refused. Then, two things happened. One, she referred me to a weight loss clinic. I finally agreed to try it. It helped me lose about 5 pounds, but that was it. But because I had been working regularly with the clinic, when the weight loss doctor tried again to get me approved, they finally approved it. I've lost 45 pounds on it. I hope to lose 10-15 more. I expect to be on it the rest of my life. At some point, insurance companies are going to realize the cost savings of covering obese patients. Patients who are not obese have better health outcomes.
I'm crossing fingers that everyone who has struggled with weight and has a prescription can get this drug covered.

Thank you for that crack actuarial analysis.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eat healthy. Exercise. Done.

Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.

NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol

That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point

Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.

Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.

Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?

Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.

The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.

Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.

Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."

I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.

I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.

Self inflicted obesity is not in any way remotely like cancer. The victim complex here is ridiculous. I’m sure it’s the food systems fault.

How many cancers are self inflicted by simply doing the job you do or consuming the food you eat or using the products we use?

I mean— many. Lung cancer and smoking obviously. Cervical cancer from contracting HPV, which is an STD. Coal miners and people who work with asbestos get cancer at high rates. Soldiers exposed to Agent Orange on their jobs (after they CHOSE to enlist). Using baby powder was recently linked to mesothelioma FFS. And on and on and on.

This is just offensive. AO was used in Vietnam, where a very large percentage of soldiers were drafted. Blaming them for the abuses of the US Army is really a terrible look. What is wrong with you?

We are saying the same thing. And, you are making my point. People exposed to AO are clearly not responsible for their cancer. Neither are people with cervical cancer because of HPV, mesothelioma because their parents used baby powder during diaper changes, coal miners or people addicted to nicotine long before the tobacco industry was forced to reveal how addictive it was. And, yet, their choices DO have a direct correlation with their cancer. (Untreated obesity also has a direct correlation with some cancers). “Lifestyle choices,” like smoking and obesity and diet (even for people ant a normal BMI) are also correlated with cognitive impairment and dementia. And yet, no one (who is sane) says don’t provide people with cancer with incredibly expensive life saving or life prolonging drugs. No one says— exclude dementia treatment because that person smoked or ate a lot of trans fats.

Now Agent Orange. Maybe I should have said burn pits. But the fact is that if you wanted to avoid the draft enough, there were ways. Get a student deferral. Shoot yourself in the foot. Flee to Canada. Claim a religious exemption. Now does it sound crazy and unfeeling to say— they could have avoided Agent Orange if they had taken extreme (and unethical) measures? Yes it does. But, it also sounds crazy to say “just eat less” to lose weight, when the person has done that for years without success. And when 90% of people who lose a lot of weight gain it back. Do you really think that 90% had the willpower to drop 50 pounds, but at the same time lack willpower and gained it back. So you want to exclude treatment. And, instead of giving them a safe and effective medication that can be reversed in a week or two if there are side effects, you want force them to do something crazy that harms their body like cutting their stomach in half to lose weight. Because fatties don’t deserve safe and effective. They should suffer.

How extreme does someone’s behavior have to be before you decide that they have tried hard enough to be deemed worth of medical care? Do they have to shoot themselves in the foot or do bariatric surgery to be worth of medical care in your eyes?

Obesity isn’t treated the same as other “lifestyle diseases”. And the proof is in your response. Your plan to just have people reduced calories tried every diet and exercise out there over decades or to have them undergo surgery that can mess up their GI system for the rest of their lives is as crazy as saying that people who are drafted should have fled the country of maimed themselves to avoid Vietnam and Agent Orange.