Anonymous wrote:LOL you think people move because they're concerned about rigor in schools?

What a clown you are.

This is NOT a way normal people think.

Oh, sure. Absolutely NO ONE with children chooses a neighborhood based on school quality.

You are the clown.

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Anonymous wrote:If we limit housing options that aren’t $2M+ new builds, people cry that the county is losing families with young kids. But if we support new housing, including multi-family dwellings, people cry that the schools will be overcrowded. Which is it? There are ways to make it easier for families with young kids to live in Arlington county, but residents fight it any chance they get.

Let’s say the quiet part out loud. What many residents want are families that can afford $2M+ houses and young adults living in condos or apartments who pay taxes but don’t have kids. I suppose families with young kids crowded into apartments in South Arlington are ok as long as people north of Langston Blvd. don’t have to think about them.

The young families are leaving for single family homes with yards. Neither the $2M new builds or the missing middle six family units will change that

Totally agree. Missing middle isn't going to help keep young families in Arlington. They don't want to live in a 6-plex 2 bedroom condo with no yard and not enough parking for $1.5m. They'll go to Fairfax for a SFH.

Most MM won’t be 6-plex. MANY families live in THs/duplexes.

Move this thread to political. Or delete it. Too much misinformation.

Only 15% of approved MM permits are for duplexes, while about 50% of permits are for 4-6 unit buildings with the most of those being 6 units.

Overall, the greatest number of MM permits are for 6 unit buildings (about 37%).

Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached.
https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There are a limited number of large lots so as time goes on the average # units/building will go down.

WRONG. The percentages I posted are taken from the approved permits on the county site that you linked. Only 15% of approved permits are for duplexes. About 50% of permits are for 4-6 plexes.

I'm right. Look at the link.

There are 14 duplex/TH/semi-detached approved projects. And 13 MF (10 6-plex). 14 > 13

10 D/T/S are proposed and 8 MF. 10 > 8

I'll be waiting patiently for your apology.

I'm not wrong. Five out of 27 approved permits are for duplexes. Thirteen out of 27 approved projects are for 4-6 plexes.

OK. And there are also townhouses and semi-detached homes...

First, I said "Most MM won’t be 6-plex. MANY families live in THs/duplexes."

Then, I said: "Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached."

Both are 100% accurate according to the tracker.

14 > 13 approved
10 > 8 under review

Patiently waiting here...

The largest category of housing being built under MM is a 6 unit multi family building. That's the single most popular option.

A plurality isn’t a majority.

Again:
>Many families live in THs/duplexes.
>Most MM won’t be 6-plex.
>Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached.

You're lumping together 3-plexes with duplexes. I have serious doubts that young families are going to want to live in what MM is calling a 3 unit townhouse. The lots for these are tiny with no yards and aren't what people think of as a typical townhouse in Arlington. Families will choose Fairfax over these.

Be as pedantic as you want, but the vast majority of MM housing isnt anything a family would choose.

You’re mad because you misread what I wrote. I very clearly said THs/duplexes from the start.

Families all over the world, and even right here in Arlington, live in smaller THs/duplexes.

Families live in townhouses with an infant and then move. We lived in a townhouse complex with kids — they ALL left us behind.

All over the world doesn’t matter, and in Arlington being the “townhouse” family is nightmare for playdates — no one wants to deal with the parking and kids are bored with zero yard space. Now a townhouse community with nice playground and pool, maybe nice but none of those here with MM.

Sounds like THs can be great first homes for young families. Great way to start building equity for a future home purchase. Just like you and your neighbors all did.

The whole article is about young families leaving Arlington, likely when they want a SFH with a yard and more space. MM doesn't fill that gap. If anything those less expensive homes are being purchased by developers to be turned into 4 and 6 plexes.

And if it wasn’t that then it would be a giant $2m home. Arlington is going to have fewer and fewer of these less expensive older homes as time goes on no matter what.

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Anonymous wrote:We live in what's lovingly referred to by others as an Arlington sh*tshack. That was 6 years ago. Now we'd be priced out of the Arlington sfh market. It's about housing prices.

And availability of telework.

DP. DH and I both telework nearly full time (like twice a year I go into an office in DC and he sporadically goes out to Reston). We chose a SFH in Arlington because we wanted to be walkable to metro, parks, restaurants, etc. and have good neighborhood public schools so our kids would have friends nearby (I don’t like the idea of schlepping to play dates and sports all over town b/c their private school friends live 30 min away or they’re all divided up into the AP centers). It’s a very idyllic childhood with kids biking around, walking to school, etc.

But we bought in 2018 and would be totally unable to afford our neighborhood now. We plan to hang onto this property for a long time so we can hand it down to our kids and they can hopefully rent it out or use it for down payment money if they want to stay in Arlington.

Bottom line is that even many people teleworking want to live near amenities. I like popping out for coffee or to the gym on foot during lunch.

Tbh, more hipsters and empty nesters are moving pricing young families who want to buy a sfh out. I don’t know what the solution is.

Arlington is unaffordable.

Anonymous wrote:Real estate agent here. It's the cost of housing. If they don't have big salaries or funds from another house sale, they just can't make it work unless they go further out.

Some recent buyers have mentioned the decline of the schools, but they are still looking in Arlington. Of course, those that mentioned it have the funds to go private. As a former educator and a big believer in public education, this hits hard. The gutting of public education.

But if there's a capacity issue at Arlington, does it really matter if people go private? I used to think it was bad too, but now I think it doesn't matter much.

Real estate agent here. It's the cost of housing. If they don't have big salaries or funds from another house sale, they just can't make it work unless they go further out.

Some recent buyers have mentioned the decline of the schools, but they are still looking in Arlington. Of course, those that mentioned it have the funds to go private. As a former educator and a big believer in public education, this hits hard. The gutting of public education.

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Anonymous wrote:If we limit housing options that aren’t $2M+ new builds, people cry that the county is losing families with young kids. But if we support new housing, including multi-family dwellings, people cry that the schools will be overcrowded. Which is it? There are ways to make it easier for families with young kids to live in Arlington county, but residents fight it any chance they get.

Let’s say the quiet part out loud. What many residents want are families that can afford $2M+ houses and young adults living in condos or apartments who pay taxes but don’t have kids. I suppose families with young kids crowded into apartments in South Arlington are ok as long as people north of Langston Blvd. don’t have to think about them.

The young families are leaving for single family homes with yards. Neither the $2M new builds or the missing middle six family units will change that

Totally agree. Missing middle isn't going to help keep young families in Arlington. They don't want to live in a 6-plex 2 bedroom condo with no yard and not enough parking for $1.5m. They'll go to Fairfax for a SFH.

Most MM won’t be 6-plex. MANY families live in THs/duplexes.

Move this thread to political. Or delete it. Too much misinformation.

Only 15% of approved MM permits are for duplexes, while about 50% of permits are for 4-6 unit buildings with the most of those being 6 units.

Overall, the greatest number of MM permits are for 6 unit buildings (about 37%).

Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached.
https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There are a limited number of large lots so as time goes on the average # units/building will go down.

WRONG. The percentages I posted are taken from the approved permits on the county site that you linked. Only 15% of approved permits are for duplexes. About 50% of permits are for 4-6 plexes.

I'm right. Look at the link.

There are 14 duplex/TH/semi-detached approved projects. And 13 MF (10 6-plex). 14 > 13

10 D/T/S are proposed and 8 MF. 10 > 8

I'll be waiting patiently for your apology.

I'm not wrong. Five out of 27 approved permits are for duplexes. Thirteen out of 27 approved projects are for 4-6 plexes.

OK. And there are also townhouses and semi-detached homes...

First, I said "Most MM won’t be 6-plex. MANY families live in THs/duplexes."

Then, I said: "Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached."

Both are 100% accurate according to the tracker.

14 > 13 approved
10 > 8 under review

Patiently waiting here...

The largest category of housing being built under MM is a 6 unit multi family building. That's the single most popular option.

A plurality isn’t a majority.

Again:
>Many families live in THs/duplexes.
>Most MM won’t be 6-plex.
>Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached.

You're lumping together 3-plexes with duplexes. I have serious doubts that young families are going to want to live in what MM is calling a 3 unit townhouse. The lots for these are tiny with no yards and aren't what people think of as a typical townhouse in Arlington. Families will choose Fairfax over these.

Be as pedantic as you want, but the vast majority of MM housing isnt anything a family would choose.

You’re mad because you misread what I wrote. I very clearly said THs/duplexes from the start.

Families all over the world, and even right here in Arlington, live in smaller THs/duplexes.

Families live in townhouses with an infant and then move. We lived in a townhouse complex with kids — they ALL left us behind.

All over the world doesn’t matter, and in Arlington being the “townhouse” family is nightmare for playdates — no one wants to deal with the parking and kids are bored with zero yard space. Now a townhouse community with nice playground and pool, maybe nice but none of those here with MM.

Sounds like THs can be great first homes for young families. Great way to start building equity for a future home purchase. Just like you and your neighbors all did.

The whole article is about young families leaving Arlington, likely when they want a SFH with a yard and more space. MM doesn't fill that gap. If anything those less expensive homes are being purchased by developers to be turned into 4 and 6 plexes.

Exactly the supply of cheaper fixer uppers has gone to zero.

And you think that happened in response to MM/EHO? Could you explain what timeline you're looking at and give a $ figure for what counts as a "cheaper fixer-upper"? Because it's been happening on my street for 20 years.

I know teardowns have been happening in many parts of Arlington for many years, but I do feel like there are some neighborhoods where it has taken longer. I live in Waverly Hills and moved there in 2007. On my block, we just had our first actual teardown. But since I have lived there, there have been 5 houses that have added on additions onto the original 1930s house (including my own). The same is true for many of the houses around us since we have lived there. Just in the past 3-4 years have the teardowns started. Maybe that's because the price for buying an original non-renovated house is now about $900,000. Also, those who were able to renovate in the past 5 years usually paid much less since they bought the house 10+ years ago. It's hard to do that now when a buyer has to pay almost a million to begin with.

Arlington has become more expensive, but it’s still a desirable place to buy a home. I get that it’s increasingly hard to break in to the real estate market, but the schools remain crowded and competitive, and most neighborhoods that have traditionally been full of kids are still full of kids. FWIW, we bought a decade ago and it felt prohibitively expensive then. It’s not a new problem in Arlington.

It’s unfortunate that the housing prices in Arlington have skyrocketed to the point that it’s prohibitive to buy or upgrade. But Arlington looks pretty good to families in DC who can afford it and want to escape DCPSs and increasing crime.

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Anonymous wrote:If we limit housing options that aren’t $2M+ new builds, people cry that the county is losing families with young kids. But if we support new housing, including multi-family dwellings, people cry that the schools will be overcrowded. Which is it? There are ways to make it easier for families with young kids to live in Arlington county, but residents fight it any chance they get.

Let’s say the quiet part out loud. What many residents want are families that can afford $2M+ houses and young adults living in condos or apartments who pay taxes but don’t have kids. I suppose families with young kids crowded into apartments in South Arlington are ok as long as people north of Langston Blvd. don’t have to think about them.

The young families are leaving for single family homes with yards. Neither the $2M new builds or the missing middle six family units will change that

Totally agree. Missing middle isn't going to help keep young families in Arlington. They don't want to live in a 6-plex 2 bedroom condo with no yard and not enough parking for $1.5m. They'll go to Fairfax for a SFH.

Most MM won’t be 6-plex. MANY families live in THs/duplexes.

Move this thread to political. Or delete it. Too much misinformation.

Only 15% of approved MM permits are for duplexes, while about 50% of permits are for 4-6 unit buildings with the most of those being 6 units.

Overall, the greatest number of MM permits are for 6 unit buildings (about 37%).

Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached.
https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There are a limited number of large lots so as time goes on the average # units/building will go down.

WRONG. The percentages I posted are taken from the approved permits on the county site that you linked. Only 15% of approved permits are for duplexes. About 50% of permits are for 4-6 plexes.

I'm right. Look at the link.

There are 14 duplex/TH/semi-detached approved projects. And 13 MF (10 6-plex). 14 > 13

10 D/T/S are proposed and 8 MF. 10 > 8

I'll be waiting patiently for your apology.

I'm not wrong. Five out of 27 approved permits are for duplexes. Thirteen out of 27 approved projects are for 4-6 plexes.

OK. And there are also townhouses and semi-detached homes...

First, I said "Most MM won’t be 6-plex. MANY families live in THs/duplexes."

Then, I said: "Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached."

Both are 100% accurate according to the tracker.

14 > 13 approved
10 > 8 under review

Patiently waiting here...

The largest category of housing being built under MM is a 6 unit multi family building. That's the single most popular option.

A plurality isn’t a majority.

Again:
>Many families live in THs/duplexes.
>Most MM won’t be 6-plex.
>Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached.

You're lumping together 3-plexes with duplexes. I have serious doubts that young families are going to want to live in what MM is calling a 3 unit townhouse. The lots for these are tiny with no yards and aren't what people think of as a typical townhouse in Arlington. Families will choose Fairfax over these.

Be as pedantic as you want, but the vast majority of MM housing isnt anything a family would choose.

You’re mad because you misread what I wrote. I very clearly said THs/duplexes from the start.

Families all over the world, and even right here in Arlington, live in smaller THs/duplexes.

Families live in townhouses with an infant and then move. We lived in a townhouse complex with kids — they ALL left us behind.

All over the world doesn’t matter, and in Arlington being the “townhouse” family is nightmare for playdates — no one wants to deal with the parking and kids are bored with zero yard space. Now a townhouse community with nice playground and pool, maybe nice but none of those here with MM.

Sounds like THs can be great first homes for young families. Great way to start building equity for a future home purchase. Just like you and your neighbors all did.

The whole article is about young families leaving Arlington, likely when they want a SFH with a yard and more space. MM doesn't fill that gap. If anything those less expensive homes are being purchased by developers to be turned into 4 and 6 plexes.

Exactly the supply of cheaper fixer uppers has gone to zero.

And you think that happened in response to MM/EHO? Could you explain what timeline you're looking at and give a $ figure for what counts as a "cheaper fixer-upper"? Because it's been happening on my street for 20 years.

+1

Builders were already snapping them up for SFHs.

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Anonymous wrote:If we limit housing options that aren’t $2M+ new builds, people cry that the county is losing families with young kids. But if we support new housing, including multi-family dwellings, people cry that the schools will be overcrowded. Which is it? There are ways to make it easier for families with young kids to live in Arlington county, but residents fight it any chance they get.

Let’s say the quiet part out loud. What many residents want are families that can afford $2M+ houses and young adults living in condos or apartments who pay taxes but don’t have kids. I suppose families with young kids crowded into apartments in South Arlington are ok as long as people north of Langston Blvd. don’t have to think about them.

The young families are leaving for single family homes with yards. Neither the $2M new builds or the missing middle six family units will change that

Totally agree. Missing middle isn't going to help keep young families in Arlington. They don't want to live in a 6-plex 2 bedroom condo with no yard and not enough parking for $1.5m. They'll go to Fairfax for a SFH.

Most MM won’t be 6-plex. MANY families live in THs/duplexes.

Move this thread to political. Or delete it. Too much misinformation.

Only 15% of approved MM permits are for duplexes, while about 50% of permits are for 4-6 unit buildings with the most of those being 6 units.

Overall, the greatest number of MM permits are for 6 unit buildings (about 37%).

Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached.
https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There are a limited number of large lots so as time goes on the average # units/building will go down.

WRONG. The percentages I posted are taken from the approved permits on the county site that you linked. Only 15% of approved permits are for duplexes. About 50% of permits are for 4-6 plexes.

I'm right. Look at the link.

There are 14 duplex/TH/semi-detached approved projects. And 13 MF (10 6-plex). 14 > 13

10 D/T/S are proposed and 8 MF. 10 > 8

I'll be waiting patiently for your apology.

I'm not wrong. Five out of 27 approved permits are for duplexes. Thirteen out of 27 approved projects are for 4-6 plexes.

OK. And there are also townhouses and semi-detached homes...

First, I said "Most MM won’t be 6-plex. MANY families live in THs/duplexes."

Then, I said: "Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached."

Both are 100% accurate according to the tracker.

14 > 13 approved
10 > 8 under review

Patiently waiting here...

The largest category of housing being built under MM is a 6 unit multi family building. That's the single most popular option.

A plurality isn’t a majority.

Again:
>Many families live in THs/duplexes.
>Most MM won’t be 6-plex.
>Most of the approved (and pending) projects are duplex/THs/semi-detached.

You're lumping together 3-plexes with duplexes. I have serious doubts that young families are going to want to live in what MM is calling a 3 unit townhouse. The lots for these are tiny with no yards and aren't what people think of as a typical townhouse in Arlington. Families will choose Fairfax over these.

Be as pedantic as you want, but the vast majority of MM housing isnt anything a family would choose.

You’re mad because you misread what I wrote. I very clearly said THs/duplexes from the start.

Families all over the world, and even right here in Arlington, live in smaller THs/duplexes.

Families live in townhouses with an infant and then move. We lived in a townhouse complex with kids — they ALL left us behind.

All over the world doesn’t matter, and in Arlington being the “townhouse” family is nightmare for playdates — no one wants to deal with the parking and kids are bored with zero yard space. Now a townhouse community with nice playground and pool, maybe nice but none of those here with MM.

Sounds like THs can be great first homes for young families. Great way to start building equity for a future home purchase. Just like you and your neighbors all did.

The whole article is about young families leaving Arlington, likely when they want a SFH with a yard and more space. MM doesn't fill that gap. If anything those less expensive homes are being purchased by developers to be turned into 4 and 6 plexes.

Exactly the supply of cheaper fixer uppers has gone to zero.

And you think that happened in response to MM/EHO? Could you explain what timeline you're looking at and give a $ figure for what counts as a "cheaper fixer-upper"? Because it's been happening on my street for 20 years.

"Either that, or the county’s $1.5 billion annual fiscal budget will need to be nipped and tucked, in order to account for declines in valuations of commercial properties – declines that, potentially, could be permanent as work-from-home normality leads businesses, non-profits and government agencies to require less space."

Where's the guy who always tells us that Arlington is where all the job growth is? I guess Amazon and Boeing can't save the county from decline. (BTW, the actual job numbers actually always showed that the bulk of job growth in VA is happening in areas like Richmond.)

Anonymous wrote:APS = ACPS. That’s the new world order.

'

Now we're all screwed.

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Anonymous wrote:LOL you think people move because they're concerned about rigor in schools?

What a clown you are.

This is NOT a way normal people think.

This. It’s because you can get a tear down in Arlignton for $1m or a mansion in ashburn with all of their Va tech friends. Easy choice. Arlington is becoming like
Nyc. Rich and poor that’s it.

Arlington has ALWAYS been way more expensive than Ashburn. Something else has changed. Could be telework increase, but schools could be a factor. But maybe with fewer families overcrowding should ease.

But there comes a tipping point when that high cost is just prohibitive and/or no longer worth it.

+1 My kids are in college now. Arlington use to be the place where you could spend the same amount for a SFH as you would in Ashburn and it certainly wouldn't be as nice but it would be a decent, livable middle class house and the benefit was a short commute to work, good county services, and a district with small class sizes. Now that tier of SFH's is gone, fewer are commuting every day, and the advantage of class size seems to be gone. I see the new THs being developed through EHO and think that would mainly benefit people like me -- DH and I are empty nesters with strong ties in our community but would like to downsize in a few years, mostly to get rid of a lot of yard maintenance and the old-house issues. A new-build duplex in our neighborhood would be great. And then a developer will likely tear down our SFH and put up a 2M+ SFH (it's a small lot probably not a good option for MM housing)