Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is forcing anybody to "compete". If you feel you have to compete it is a you problem, not a them problem.

The people I know who have left this area because they wanted to raise their kids in a less competitive environment have seemed insecure to me. Instead of being happy with their home, they wanted bigger, nicer homes for less money. Felt obviously insecure if their snowflake wasn't the best on the team or the smartest in the class.

This

Thanks for reminding me why I don't miss DC!

Bye Felicia. Your kids are average wherever they may roam

Careful, your insecurity is showing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I'm pretty sure Loudon county is the richest county in Virginia, or actually the entire country. So not only do you live in the middle of nowhere, but you have crappy schools and you didn't remotely escape that striver mindset.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

We now live in McLean. We used to live in Alexandria. Plenty of normal not competitive people in both. Burke, Springfield and Fairfax are also full of normal people.

There are definitely some crazy competitive type people but I don’t mind them. There is this one family obsessed with AAP in kindergarten. I think everyone finds them annoying.

MHS or LHS?

We are zoned for Langley. Most of the families we have met are successful and value education. I’m happy with my kids’ friend groups. The peer group is very strong in McLean. It may be surprising but their friends are not materialistic either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I guess you didn’t think about what Loudoun is or why people move there before you chose to settle there. By and large it’s people who wanted a nicer/newer home and to be surrounded by nicer/newer infrastructure (relative to the more established parts of the DC area) but couldn’t afford the areas closer in where larger new homes were/are being built. Loudoun attracts people who place a high value on having nice things. In some cases they value that so much that they were/are willing to put up with a long commute (especially if they moved Covid) and loss of easy access to certain amenities in order to get it. So yeah, you’re going to have enough materialistic people in Loudoun to create the same competitive culture that you get in the rich areas of the closer in places. As PPs have said the most down to earth MC people are in older areas in more modest homes, because their value system does not place a high priority on having a bigger newer house and being surrounded by new things.

There is nothing fancy about my neighborhood. I assumed others moved here for the same reason we did - we couldn't afford a SFH any other way. Its not like we have a McMansion. I wish all these strivers would just move up to a fancier neighborhood but instead they are just over-renovating their houses and over-spending on cars and things for their kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

Except I have almost no influence on who my friends are friends with. Maybe some in ES (not much) but not really any beyond that. DH and I don’t encourage the competition or behave in a competitive way (and have the old cars and kitchen to show for it) and yet my kids have still picked up on this from their friends.

I’m one of the posters who moved and this was my issue as well. Once your kids get old enough, their choice of peer networks is their own and you lose the influence you had when they were in elementary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

+1 I haven't experienced this. I have one in college and a HS senior. I think it's friends AND mindset.

I really don’t get this. Have you all never lived outside the DC area? It’s a big country and it’s absolutely variable in terms of the pace of life. Maybe if you haven’t lived in other places, you don’t realize how different the northeast is generally. Places have different vibes, whether it’s east coast/west coast, southeast vs Midwest vs northeast, urban vs rural. And yes, some places are more competitive, driven and job/work oriented than others. None of this is a knock on DC or other fast paced areas! It doesn’t mean people in more fast paced areas aren’t nice. It’s just not for everyone.

I’m from NYC. Compared to my friends in NYC, our kids in a highly ranked DMV school pyramid seem to have it pretty easy. We don’t have to test into GT in kindergarten or apply to middle and high schools.

DH and I are both Ivy grad school educated. The friends we have in NYC are well educated and all want their kids to go to the Ivy schools they attended.

Our friends here in our UMC highly ranked public schools seem less concerned about their kids getting into ivy schools. People here seem satisfied with UVA, UMD, Penn State, etc.

Yup, the NYC area is in a league of its own for competitiveness IMO - I’ve lived in both areas!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

We now live in McLean. We used to live in Alexandria. Plenty of normal not competitive people in both. Burke, Springfield and Fairfax are also full of normal people.

There are definitely some crazy competitive type people but I don’t mind them. There is this one family obsessed with AAP in kindergarten. I think everyone finds them annoying.

MHS or LHS?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

+1 I haven't experienced this. I have one in college and a HS senior. I think it's friends AND mindset.

I really don’t get this. Have you all never lived outside the DC area? It’s a big country and it’s absolutely variable in terms of the pace of life. Maybe if you haven’t lived in other places, you don’t realize how different the northeast is generally. Places have different vibes, whether it’s east coast/west coast, southeast vs Midwest vs northeast, urban vs rural. And yes, some places are more competitive, driven and job/work oriented than others. None of this is a knock on DC or other fast paced areas! It doesn’t mean people in more fast paced areas aren’t nice. It’s just not for everyone.

You misunderstand. Of course DC or the Bay Area (where I grew up) or another city/town is not for everyone. The point of the OP is that raising kids in a competitive UMC is somehow detrimental or exhausting. Seeing that this is DCUM, I assume a place like Chevy Chase (where I reside) is the kind of place OP is talking about. Some people might find it unbearable because of what OP feels is inherent competitiveness. Others, like me, do not because I don't find it inherently competitive. I don't have my head buried, but I'm too caught up in what's right for our family to generally care about my neighbors' choices. I have many friends here and find that we can celebrate each others' accomplishments. I also generally believe through trial/error that you usually take your problems with you. You need to fix the problem (mindset) not the circumstances.

I’m not misunderstanding anything. You seem to think that the only people who would find a place like Chevy Chase competitive have “problems” or are too wrapped up in “neighbor’s choices” and that’s the only reason they would find an area competitive and not their vibe. I flatly disagree. Places have different feels to them, and it is totally ok to decide that a place is too goal oriented/fast paced/job oriented or whatever for your family’s tastes. It doesn’t mean you are insecure, it doesn’t mean there is a problem that needs to be fixed, it doesn’t mean you don’t have friends. We are so much happier with where we have moved to. Had great friends before, have great friends now. That was never the issue. But I absolutely like that where my kids live now, their peers and their schools are less of a pressure cooker.

I am the previous poster who said I wanted my kids to be intelligent, happy, and well-adjusted. I realize that intelligence and happiness are two different things and can even work at cross-purposes. Let me define further:

Intelligent - above average I.Q but enough emotional intelligence not to annoy other people by showing it off, considered to be smart enough to tackle a high-paying professional job and take on novel challenges, interested in academic subjects and intellectual issues widely discussed by the UMC, does well in school, makes well-reasoned life choices based on acquired knowledge

Happiness - good relations with friends and family so feels confident of social circle and trusts others to do the right thing, sees the glass as half full or at least has a reasonable perspective on setbacks and problems, accepting of personal limitations but still growth-oriented, not jealous of others and their success, typically enjoys daily life, looks forward to future, not constantly anxious or ruminating about small issues

Well-adjusted - able to be pleasant and kind to everyone who deserves it without snobbery, able to understand prejudices and counter one's one own inherent prejudices, able to adapt to changing times, able to travel globally and understand different cultures well enough to enjoy and share learnings, and modify one's own lifestyle for the better to become happier.

I have a pretty detailed set of thoughts on how I want my kids to have a better life and most of it involves life philosophy and attitude coaching. I've showed them various windows on the life they might have had in other neighborhoods, but let them choose their own path. For example, both of my kids turned down the chance to get in the lottery for a top-ranked multi-district public IB magnet school. Too much homework on a daily basis, and a very ordinary set of school facilities. In our area, that's the only school that reliably sends kids to Ivies. High school study abroad was another window for my oldest child. Bit of culture shock for him being around UMC kids from more competitive areas. The university he wants to go to (where I got my grad degree) is "just" a safety school for many of them.

I just didn't have the energy needed to live my current family lifestyle in the DMV in the suburbs I lived in as a kid and a single person. Sometimes you can "win" by walking away. That said, it's a fairly irreversible decision. My parents and my nuclear family would not be able to afford buying back in. And times change anyway. I visited Bethesda a year ago and stayed in the hotel above the Metro for a few days. It's turning into a big city vs. the little town it used to be. Can't believe the Tastee Diner is still there below all the high rises!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I guess you didn’t think about what Loudoun is or why people move there before you chose to settle there. By and large it’s people who wanted a nicer/newer home and to be surrounded by nicer/newer infrastructure (relative to the more established parts of the DC area) but couldn’t afford the areas closer in where larger new homes were/are being built. Loudoun attracts people who place a high value on having nice things. In some cases they value that so much that they were/are willing to put up with a long commute (especially if they moved Covid) and loss of easy access to certain amenities in order to get it. So yeah, you’re going to have enough materialistic people in Loudoun to create the same competitive culture that you get in the rich areas of the closer in places. As PPs have said the most down to earth MC people are in older areas in more modest homes, because their value system does not place a high priority on having a bigger newer house and being surrounded by new things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

We now live in McLean. We used to live in Alexandria. Plenty of normal not competitive people in both. Burke, Springfield and Fairfax are also full of normal people.

There are definitely some crazy competitive type people but I don’t mind them. There is this one family obsessed with AAP in kindergarten. I think everyone finds them annoying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

+1 I haven't experienced this. I have one in college and a HS senior. I think it's friends AND mindset.

I really don’t get this. Have you all never lived outside the DC area? It’s a big country and it’s absolutely variable in terms of the pace of life. Maybe if you haven’t lived in other places, you don’t realize how different the northeast is generally. Places have different vibes, whether it’s east coast/west coast, southeast vs Midwest vs northeast, urban vs rural. And yes, some places are more competitive, driven and job/work oriented than others. None of this is a knock on DC or other fast paced areas! It doesn’t mean people in more fast paced areas aren’t nice. It’s just not for everyone.

I’m from NYC. Compared to my friends in NYC, our kids in a highly ranked DMV school pyramid seem to have it pretty easy. We don’t have to test into GT in kindergarten or apply to middle and high schools.

DH and I are both Ivy grad school educated. The friends we have in NYC are well educated and all want their kids to go to the Ivy schools they attended.

Our friends here in our UMC highly ranked public schools seem less concerned about their kids getting into ivy schools. People here seem satisfied with UVA, UMD, Penn State, etc.

The operative word is seem

I have two Ivy League degrees and my kids won't go to an Ivy. They are in elementary so it's not sour grapes (yet?) - the value is just not there, academically, financially and socially. And they are, so far, ambitious kids. However, this crazy focus on the college brand is playing a short game.

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up and still live in an UMC area but it’s in the Midwest so it’s not overly competitive but it does have excellent schools. What it does lack is diversity but I’m not willing to move to deal with that.

Racist

Please learn to love yourself, and also to include body content above your signature.

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