Anonymous
Post 12/13/2023 11:16     Subject: Re:America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

States decide their own stances on abortion, and have done so legislatively and through elections.

You don’t agree that each state should be allowed to do that? Why do you think your opinion about abortion is more important than the right of states to have free elections and states to make their own decisions and laws about any issue?


Consider this: There are many *religions* that view abortion as a religious obligation/moral duty in some instances that are now outlawed by some states. Why are the states allowed to impose a law based on conservative Christian theology on all other religions? Isn't this a violation of their first amendment rights?



Explain what religions view abortion as a religious obligation/moral duty.

What religions obligated their adherents to have abortions?

What religions believe killing your unborn baby is a moral duty.


Your religious views and modern life, at least as far as medicine and science, are simply not compatible.

Women with complicated pregnancies will die because of your insistence that doctors somehow fit their care within what is medically permissible based on a biblical standard. Like women having to carry a dying fetus to term and risking sepsis. I’m sorry a 2,000 year old book doesn’t really have a good answer for that. It’s absurd. But you church going folks somehow can’t think critically enough on these sorts of complicated scenarios and mainly prefer to deal in black and white thinking.

You want reality to fit around your Bible, and within an often unworkable medical framework, and not the other way around.

You’re going to get fked like twin sisters in an oil rig at the polls by the way. Have you seen the votes on these ballot measure for abortion? You get that you are on the losing side of that right? Abortion is a wedge issue.

It’s annoying because I like low taxes. We are prob going to see democrat wins everywhere because you backwards people can’t see that women don’t want to have vital medical care restricted by a patriarchal organized religion based policy.

I know, I know you won’t even understand what I am writing because “abortion bad, Bible good” is really that’s bouncing around in your head.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2023 11:07     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't want to ban religion. I want US Christians to stop policing non-Christians. If you truly believed in religious freedom, you wouldn't police women's bodies...in the name of religion.


Where are Christian police policing anyone?


Are you willfully obtuse?

No one has the time to probe the depths of this. We all have jobs and lives.

Short version: Mainly there are tons of super high powered Evangelical or conservative Christians, for example, like politicians or judges in Texas who take a biblical view on abortion and that is their driving force in shaping their view. They set policy. They shape laws. They do it under the banner of Christianity. How the fk can you act like you don’t know that?
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2023 06:22     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:I don't want to ban religion. I want US Christians to stop policing non-Christians. If you truly believed in religious freedom, you wouldn't police women's bodies...in the name of religion.


Where are Christian police policing anyone?
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2023 05:41     Subject: Re:America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

States decide their own stances on abortion, and have done so legislatively and through elections.

You don’t agree that each state should be allowed to do that? Why do you think your opinion about abortion is more important than the right of states to have free elections and states to make their own decisions and laws about any issue?


Consider this: There are many *religions* that view abortion as a religious obligation/moral duty in some instances that are now outlawed by some states. Why are the states allowed to impose a law based on conservative Christian theology on all other religions? Isn't this a violation of their first amendment rights?



Explain what religions view abortion as a religious obligation/moral duty.

What religions obligated their adherents to have abortions?

What religions believe killing your unborn baby is a moral duty.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2023 15:53     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Two words. Texas abortion.
Anonymous
Post 12/10/2023 22:02     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Do you want to build a strawman?
Anonymous
Post 12/10/2023 21:47     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our country has a lot of things at its founding. Slaves. Only men getting to vote. Just because it was there in the beginning doesn’t make it right.

Also, it was founded as freedom from government imposed religion. I’m sure nobody actually wants to ban you from doing whatever stupid ish you want to do on your own time. But keep it to yourself.


No; lots of constant comments about religion being evil, Christians being evil, organized religion should be banned.

And you believe religion is stupid $hit? Just Christianity? Or are Jewish people stupid $hit too? What about UU? Episcopal churches and members, $hit?

Who is stupid $hit? All religions?


All religions are pretty stupid. Christianity is definitely one of the dumbest. And I think it’s followers are, on average, the dumbest.
Anonymous
Post 12/10/2023 21:45     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:I don't want to ban religion. I want US Christians to stop policing non-Christians. If you truly believed in religious freedom, you wouldn't police women's bodies...in the name of religion.


x1 billion

Keep your Jesus out of my pants.
Anonymous
Post 12/10/2023 21:44     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:So many posts here attack organized religion and call it evil and the source of evil in the world. People as recently as yesterday have posted they wish they could ban organized religion.

I, like many other posters here, am not interested at all in banning organized religion. I think that the world would be a better place without religion but I had never thought of banning religion. Like that could even be true. I've seen enough ISIS violence to know people feel weirdly strong about their religions and how other should act around that religion.

Why do these posters (atheists, anti-theists) not realize our entire country is based upon religious freedom? They are admitting openly they are in direct opposition of the express wishes of our country’s founders and our constitution and laws? Or do they realize and just don’t care?

This country is based on religious freedom, yet our calendars are based on religious holidays. Why are we shaping our schedules around Christian people's religious holidays? I would just like to be free from the impact of other people's religious observations. Ok great, go celebrate some fictional guy being reborn, but can I please have some room, somewhere in this huge country to be free from a religion's impositions?

Also, if you look at countries that limit religious freedom, you see a pattern of government control that makes said country extremely dangerous and authoritarian to live in, it’s not good. If you think organized religion is evil, why are the countries that limit or basically outlaw religion such terrible places to live?

Which one? How? Ever lived in one?

If you are an atheist or anti- theist who thinks organized religion is evil, and you would like to ban organized religion, how do you feel about our forefathers (who thought religious freedom was extremely important) and the emphasis our laws place on religious freedom and liberty?
Anonymous
Post 12/10/2023 21:23     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:So many posts here attack organized religion and call it evil and the source of evil in the world. People as recently as yesterday have posted they wish they could ban organized religion.

Why do these posters (atheists, anti-theists) not realize our entire country is based upon religious freedom? They are admitting openly they are in direct opposition of the express wishes of our country’s founders and our constitution and laws? Or do they realize and just don’t care?

Also, if you look at countries that limit religious freedom, you see a pattern of government control that makes said country extremely dangerous and authoritarian to live in, it’s not good. If you think organized religion is evil, why are the countries that limit or basically outlaw religion such terrible places to live?

If you are an atheist or anti- theist who thinks organized religion is evil, and you would like to ban organized religion, how do you feel about our forefathers (who thought religious freedom was extremely important) and the emphasis our laws place on religious freedom and liberty?


I'll give you an attempt at a good-faith answer. I hope you're willing to read and consider it with an open mind.

As an atheist, I *personally* do believe that religion is a net negative in the world. Not all atheists believe that, but I do. I'd never seek to ban religion in America, but that said, I definitely wish it wasn't a thing. I'm sure there are many Christians who would wish the whole world was Christian, and plenty of them would never do anything to actually impose their beliefs on others.

I also think that in general, the situation in America right now can tend to make atheists feel more anti-theist, because of how certain portions of Christianity (the loud, visible ones) are trying in so many ways to create laws that infringe on our first amendment rights. Trying to codify Christian beliefs and stomp on nonreligious people doesn't really endear us to organized religion. And frankly, the Supreme Court making rulings that are pretty obviously filled with pro-Christian religious bias isn't good for us as a democracy - the rule of law is important in America. When the system is skewed and corrupt and only one privileged viewpoint gets their way, there's little incentive for others to continue with the system. This makes me really nervous about our future as a country.

We've seen a lot of court cases and laws that, the way they are interpreted, are designed to privilege Christians, try to force the rest of us to accept/convert to Christianity, or allow Christians to opt-out of obeying laws that apply to everyone else. Consider:

-There are laws on the books that prohibit recognized churches from participating in partisan activities/endorsing candidates. This never gets enforced (seriously, look it up.) In fact, preachers have recorded sermons endorsing candidates, put them on the internet, and *dared the government to come at them for it* and the government did nothing.

-Bladensburg cross - a giant cross on government property that the supreme court basically ruled would normally be considered an unacceptable government endorsement of religion except that *it had been there for so long we don't want to make them take it down.* (So... if I break the law for a really long time, suddenly it's cool. And you can bet that no other religion's symbol would be allowed to stand on public grounds long enough to get the longevity needed for this to apply to anyone else.)

-Catholic nuns do not want to provide health insurance that provides birth control. So the government says fine, we will provide it, you just have to fill out a form. Nuns say, no, marking a checkbox on a form is an undue burden on our religious rights *and the court agreed.*

-Meanwhile, a woman invoking basically the same law saying that a mandatory 48 hour waiting period for an abortion approved of by her (non-Christian) religion is an undue burden and the courts disagree

-Hobby Lobby doesn't want to provide birth control to workers because it's the company's religious rights. Apparently the worker's religious rights to have birth control if it's approved by their faith aren't important.

-Greece v. Galloway ruled that towns who open government meetings with an invocation cannot only restrict these invocations to Christian invocations. Yet pretty frequently when a minority religion or group asks to give an invocation, they get stonewalled, the rules change and invocations go away, or new rules are put in place that don't specifically, but effectively, make it so that only Christians and an occasional Jew get to speak.

-The Satanic Temple makes their after school science club available in schools that already have a Christian evangelical after school club. This routinely sends the affected area into a tizzy with Christians trying to throw out the club. The last big one of these, Christians called in bomb threats to the school so the school tried to *ban the club* because it's existence was disruptive.

-Students who only want to sit and not say the pledge of allegiance in schools are routinely disciplined, despite the fact that the court ordered decades ago that the student can't be coerced into participating.

-Public School athletic coaches are routinely caught leading the whole team/sporting venue in prayer, proselytizing to their teams, and the last guy that took this to the supreme court *won*. We know that if someone got on a loudspeaker and asked everyone to join us in affirming that God wasn't real and we were glad to play football on this beautiful day that had no supernatural purpose, there would be a riot.

-Lots of prisons will permit inmates to get special privileges for joining a religious group, but only one recognized by the prison. Which is usually Christianity, maybe one other one; often atheists are effectively banned from these same sorts of privileges unless they're willing to pretend to be Christian (or at least, attend a Christian group.)

-Similarly, prisoners may get preferential treatment at parole board hearings if they "found their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." Can you imagine anyone would get the same for seeing the light after years of study of Carl Sagan?

-Judges have sometimes been caught making a point of opening court with an expressly Christian prayer. If you're an atheist in that courtroom, you have to either pretend to be Christian or risk offending the judge hearing your case.

-Some prisoners have been required to attend AA as a condition for parole. This is an expressly Christian program, and some people who have asked for secular alternatives have been denied.

Anonymous
Post 12/10/2023 20:49     Subject: Re:America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:

States decide their own stances on abortion, and have done so legislatively and through elections.

You don’t agree that each state should be allowed to do that? Why do you think your opinion about abortion is more important than the right of states to have free elections and states to make their own decisions and laws about any issue?


Consider this: There are many *religions* that view abortion as a religious obligation/moral duty in some instances that are now outlawed by some states. Why are the states allowed to impose a law based on conservative Christian theology on all other religions? Isn't this a violation of their first amendment rights?

Anonymous
Post 12/10/2023 19:40     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
I don't want to ban religion. I want US Christians to stop policing non-Christians. If you truly believed in religious freedom, you wouldn't police women's bodies...in the name of religion.
Anonymous
Post 12/10/2023 19:37     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


This thread is not about making people follow religion; it’s about the atheists and anti-theists here who post that religion is evil and religion should be banned. No one in our country is forced to be religious. However many people have espoused the belief that religion is stupid and should be banned, which is directly in opposition to our laws and traditions.


Religion may be stupid but there is no effort to ban religion.
Anonymous
Post 12/10/2023 19:35     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our country has a lot of things at its founding. Slaves. Only men getting to vote. Just because it was there in the beginning doesn’t make it right.

Also, it was founded as freedom from government imposed religion. I’m sure nobody actually wants to ban you from doing whatever stupid ish you want to do on your own time. But keep it to yourself.


No; lots of constant comments about religion being evil, Christians being evil, organized religion should be banned.

And you believe religion is stupid $hit? Just Christianity? Or are Jewish people stupid $hit too? What about UU? Episcopal churches and members, $hit?

Who is stupid $hit? All religions?


Just because someone thinks what you believe is stupid shit does not mean that they want to ban your stupid shit. Sorry, the problem with religious conservatives is that they want to be liked. Sorry, I do not. But that does not mean I support outlawing your warped version of Christianity.
Anonymous
Post 12/10/2023 19:32     Subject: America was founded on religious freedom; why do atheists want to ban organized religion?
Anonymous wrote:So many posts here attack organized religion and call it evil and the source of evil in the world. People as recently as yesterday have posted they wish they could ban organized religion.

Why do these posters (atheists, anti-theists) not realize our entire country is based upon religious freedom? They are admitting openly they are in direct opposition of the express wishes of our country’s founders and our constitution and laws? Or do they realize and just don’t care?

Also, if you look at countries that limit religious freedom, you see a pattern of government control that makes said country extremely dangerous and authoritarian to live in, it’s not good. If you think organized religion is evil, why are the countries that limit or basically outlaw religion such terrible places to live?

If you are an atheist or anti- theist who thinks organized religion is evil, and you would like to ban organized religion, how do you feel about our forefathers (who thought religious freedom was extremely important) and the emphasis our laws place on religious freedom and liberty?


No serious person wants to ban organized religion. Doing so obviously violates multiple parts of the First Amendment. However, the interest of some in imposing their personal religious views on others is un-American. People can believe whatever shit they want to believe. But the First Amendment does not require that others agree with their views, respect their views, or refrain from criticizing their views. So, get a life!