Anonymous wrote:I understand how you're feeling OP, I kind of feel the same way (moved from DC to a small town in NE) but I have to say my god I cannot imagine downsizing to that level with those age kids. Like 1400 sq ft is SMALL for that situation. It concerns me that you listed that in neutral, like you may not fully be thinking through what that means.

But I agree with others that you clearly should do SOMETHING if you're this unhappy. I will say I have gotten really involved in my community and that has helped. But I'm not going to try to convince you suburbs are better than the city, I can't wait to move back one day! I will say though echoing another poster, I really do feel like the childhood I'm giving my kids is much better for them, and that helps me be a bit more at peace with the whole thing.

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what is wrong with chain restaurants and coffee shops. They have all grown to be chains because what they offered was good.

It’s a lot of the same food - Chili’s is not that different than Applebee’s. But neither has Thai food or (as I ordered tonight from my city home) Pho. If you want fine dining or a menu that doesn’t have a chicken finger option you can’t go to a chain.

Good grief. The best Pho you can get (delivered or pick it up yourself) is in the suburbs of DC. Some of you are insufferable.

I didn't say you can't get Pho in the suburbs. I was responding to someone who asked why people are always knocking on chain restaurants. I think the knock is that they are very similar, not that they are bad, but if you want something different you don't go to a chain.

OP here- as I go through all these comments I realize I just REALLY like being part of my community. Living in the city for the first 26 years of my life I knew our butcher, the local diner owner, the bartenders at the pubs, the neighborhood grandma that owns the Italian deli, the ramen shop owner whose kids were always helping around the restaurant, the owner of the independent book store who gives back SO much to the local kids. I still go back and pop in those places and they ask about my kids, how my parents are, say they remember when I was first allowed to walk to those places with friends, etc. It's nothing like walking into a Chilis, having a bored teen as your waitress, and eating crappy deep fried food.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what is wrong with chain restaurants and coffee shops. They have all grown to be chains because what they offered was good.

It’s a lot of the same food - Chili’s is not that different than Applebee’s. But neither has Thai food or (as I ordered tonight from my city home) Pho. If you want fine dining or a menu that doesn’t have a chicken finger option you can’t go to a chain.

Good grief. The best Pho you can get (delivered or pick it up yourself) is in the suburbs of DC. Some of you are insufferable.

I didn't say you can't get Pho in the suburbs. I was responding to someone who asked why people are always knocking on chain restaurants. I think the knock is that they are very similar, not that they are bad, but if you want something different you don't go to a chain.

OP here- as I go through all these comments I realize I just REALLY like being part of my community. Living in the city for the first 26 years of my life I knew our butcher, the local diner owner, the bartenders at the pubs, the neighborhood grandma that owns the Italian deli, the ramen shop owner whose kids were always helping around the restaurant, the owner of the independent book store who gives back SO much to the local kids. I still go back and pop in those places and they ask about my kids, how my parents are, say they remember when I was first allowed to walk to those places with friends, etc. It's nothing like walking into a Chilis, having a bored teen as your waitress, and eating crappy deep fried food.

This isn’t unique to living in a city. It’s unique to NOT living in a soulless suburb.

I live in a small town and have a local butcher, farmers market, can walk/bike to parks, an independent book store where we always buy kid birthday parties, etc. No chains since they aren’t allowed. Actually we do have a CVS and that was controversial.

I do find city people a bit delusional about chains. They eat at sweetgreen and can’t understand that it’s a chain.

This isn't meant to be a city vs suburb debate. OP has a real decision to make about an actual piece of property in a neighborhood that she's lived in, in a building where her grandparents still live. Sure if that wasn't an option she could and should consider a wide variety of potential new neighborhoods, but in her reply above she's citing actual places that she knows and would be returning to.

+1. OP is asking about a specific opportunity - not generally whether city or suburbs are better, nor which type of suburb is better. She didn't suggest that she has the choice to relocate to a different suburb that may be a better fit. OP has replied throughout this thread with so many good reasons why she should return to the city. To be closer to family, return to a community they're both already established in, etc. Chicago is a fundamentally different city than DC. I lived there pre-kids, so the school situation is totally unfamiliar to me, but the Chicago posters have said it can be stressful, but manageable. Plus high school is far off for them. Seems like a once in a lifetime opportunity for OP, and I'd jump on it!

I think the chicago closer-in suburb posters are responding to what OP says she doesn’t like and her concerns — what comes across most is lack of community…and going from 5 bedrooms to 1400 sq ft with two kids. That’s tough. We live in a close in north shore suburb that has neighborhood block parties, cocktail parties, summer happy hours, walkable to train station (30 min to downtown chicago) tons of farmers markets and street festivals, etc, and great schools. It feels like the best of both worlds. We do occasionally go into the zoo / museums with kids as well. We have been into the city for concerts/date nights every couple of months. We had many friends that lived in the city with kids (and we did as well pre-kids), but they have all recently moved for space, schools and safety…so can’t always count on network not moving either. It’s easy to idealize your life pre-kids in the city - but would take a hard look at how it would work in reality and what the real trade off for your quality of life is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what is wrong with chain restaurants and coffee shops. They have all grown to be chains because what they offered was good.

It’s a lot of the same food - Chili’s is not that different than Applebee’s. But neither has Thai food or (as I ordered tonight from my city home) Pho. If you want fine dining or a menu that doesn’t have a chicken finger option you can’t go to a chain.

Good grief. The best Pho you can get (delivered or pick it up yourself) is in the suburbs of DC. Some of you are insufferable.

I didn't say you can't get Pho in the suburbs. I was responding to someone who asked why people are always knocking on chain restaurants. I think the knock is that they are very similar, not that they are bad, but if you want something different you don't go to a chain.

OP here- as I go through all these comments I realize I just REALLY like being part of my community. Living in the city for the first 26 years of my life I knew our butcher, the local diner owner, the bartenders at the pubs, the neighborhood grandma that owns the Italian deli, the ramen shop owner whose kids were always helping around the restaurant, the owner of the independent book store who gives back SO much to the local kids. I still go back and pop in those places and they ask about my kids, how my parents are, say they remember when I was first allowed to walk to those places with friends, etc. It's nothing like walking into a Chilis, having a bored teen as your waitress, and eating crappy deep fried food.

This isn’t unique to living in a city. It’s unique to NOT living in a soulless suburb.

I live in a small town and have a local butcher, farmers market, can walk/bike to parks, an independent book store where we always buy kid birthday parties, etc. No chains since they aren’t allowed. Actually we do have a CVS and that was controversial.

I do find city people a bit delusional about chains. They eat at sweetgreen and can’t understand that it’s a chain.

This isn't meant to be a city vs suburb debate. OP has a real decision to make about an actual piece of property in a neighborhood that she's lived in, in a building where her grandparents still live. Sure if that wasn't an option she could and should consider a wide variety of potential new neighborhoods, but in her reply above she's citing actual places that she knows and would be returning to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what is wrong with chain restaurants and coffee shops. They have all grown to be chains because what they offered was good.

It’s a lot of the same food - Chili’s is not that different than Applebee’s. But neither has Thai food or (as I ordered tonight from my city home) Pho. If you want fine dining or a menu that doesn’t have a chicken finger option you can’t go to a chain.

Good grief. The best Pho you can get (delivered or pick it up yourself) is in the suburbs of DC. Some of you are insufferable.

I didn't say you can't get Pho in the suburbs. I was responding to someone who asked why people are always knocking on chain restaurants. I think the knock is that they are very similar, not that they are bad, but if you want something different you don't go to a chain.

OP here- as I go through all these comments I realize I just REALLY like being part of my community. Living in the city for the first 26 years of my life I knew our butcher, the local diner owner, the bartenders at the pubs, the neighborhood grandma that owns the Italian deli, the ramen shop owner whose kids were always helping around the restaurant, the owner of the independent book store who gives back SO much to the local kids. I still go back and pop in those places and they ask about my kids, how my parents are, say they remember when I was first allowed to walk to those places with friends, etc. It's nothing like walking into a Chilis, having a bored teen as your waitress, and eating crappy deep fried food.

This isn’t unique to living in a city. It’s unique to NOT living in a soulless suburb.

I live in a small town and have a local butcher, farmers market, can walk/bike to parks, an independent book store where we always buy kid birthday parties, etc. No chains since they aren’t allowed. Actually we do have a CVS and that was controversial.

I do find city people a bit delusional about chains. They eat at sweetgreen and can’t understand that it’s a chain.

This isn't meant to be a city vs suburb debate. OP has a real decision to make about an actual piece of property in a neighborhood that she's lived in, in a building where her grandparents still live. Sure if that wasn't an option she could and should consider a wide variety of potential new neighborhoods, but in her reply above she's citing actual places that she knows and would be returning to.

+1. OP is asking about a specific opportunity - not generally whether city or suburbs are better, nor which type of suburb is better. She didn't suggest that she has the choice to relocate to a different suburb that may be a better fit. OP has replied throughout this thread with so many good reasons why she should return to the city. To be closer to family, return to a community they're both already established in, etc. Chicago is a fundamentally different city than DC. I lived there pre-kids, so the school situation is totally unfamiliar to me, but the Chicago posters have said it can be stressful, but manageable. Plus high school is far off for them. Seems like a once in a lifetime opportunity for OP, and I'd jump on it!

I think the chicago closer-in suburb posters are responding to what OP says she doesn’t like and her concerns — what comes across most is lack of community…and going from 5 bedrooms to 1400 sq ft with two kids. That’s tough. We live in a close in north shore suburb that has neighborhood block parties, cocktail parties, summer happy hours, walkable to train station (30 min to downtown chicago) tons of farmers markets and street festivals, etc, and great schools. It feels like the best of both worlds. We do occasionally go into the zoo / museums with kids as well. We have been into the city for concerts/date nights every couple of months. We had many friends that lived in the city with kids (and we did as well pre-kids), but they have all recently moved for space, schools and safety…so can’t always count on network not moving either. It’s easy to idealize your life pre-kids in the city - but would take a hard look at how it would work in reality and what the real trade off for your quality of life is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what is wrong with chain restaurants and coffee shops. They have all grown to be chains because what they offered was good.

It’s a lot of the same food - Chili’s is not that different than Applebee’s. But neither has Thai food or (as I ordered tonight from my city home) Pho. If you want fine dining or a menu that doesn’t have a chicken finger option you can’t go to a chain.

Good grief. The best Pho you can get (delivered or pick it up yourself) is in the suburbs of DC. Some of you are insufferable.

I didn't say you can't get Pho in the suburbs. I was responding to someone who asked why people are always knocking on chain restaurants. I think the knock is that they are very similar, not that they are bad, but if you want something different you don't go to a chain.

OP here- as I go through all these comments I realize I just REALLY like being part of my community. Living in the city for the first 26 years of my life I knew our butcher, the local diner owner, the bartenders at the pubs, the neighborhood grandma that owns the Italian deli, the ramen shop owner whose kids were always helping around the restaurant, the owner of the independent book store who gives back SO much to the local kids. I still go back and pop in those places and they ask about my kids, how my parents are, say they remember when I was first allowed to walk to those places with friends, etc. It's nothing like walking into a Chilis, having a bored teen as your waitress, and eating crappy deep fried food.

This isn’t unique to living in a city. It’s unique to NOT living in a soulless suburb.

I live in a small town and have a local butcher, farmers market, can walk/bike to parks, an independent book store where we always buy kid birthday parties, etc. No chains since they aren’t allowed. Actually we do have a CVS and that was controversial.

I do find city people a bit delusional about chains. They eat at sweetgreen and can’t understand that it’s a chain.

This isn't meant to be a city vs suburb debate. OP has a real decision to make about an actual piece of property in a neighborhood that she's lived in, in a building where her grandparents still live. Sure if that wasn't an option she could and should consider a wide variety of potential new neighborhoods, but in her reply above she's citing actual places that she knows and would be returning to.

+1. OP is asking about a specific opportunity - not generally whether city or suburbs are better, nor which type of suburb is better. She didn't suggest that she has the choice to relocate to a different suburb that may be a better fit. OP has replied throughout this thread with so many good reasons why she should return to the city. To be closer to family, return to a community they're both already established in, etc. Chicago is a fundamentally different city than DC. I lived there pre-kids, so the school situation is totally unfamiliar to me, but the Chicago posters have said it can be stressful, but manageable. Plus high school is far off for them. Seems like a once in a lifetime opportunity for OP, and I'd jump on it!

Anonymous wrote:We are not in DC, but another major city. DH and I both grew up in the city and are well traveled "city people". We bought a house before we had kids when we were 26yo thinking we'd go to a great school district in the suburbs and start a family which we did. We are now 34yo with kids ages 5 and 3. Older kid is in Kindergarten at our fantastic public school district, but I just HATE it here. There's no friendly feeling in our neighborhood. We have been here almost 8 years and do not have friendships with any of our neighbors despite really trying. I loathe having to drive everywhere- pack the kids in and out of the car seats, drive to all errands, etc. I hate that every restaurant near us is a fricken chain, there's no independent coffee shops, so many big box stores. We have 5bd/2ba but our house is so outdated, choppy, and I just haven't been able to put money into it because I'm not happy here. The last 3 weekends I've taken my kids on the 8am train into the city and come back before bedtime and just refueled my soul with park hopping, pastries at coffee shops, markets, museums, a play.

My grandparents own a 2 flat in my favorite part of the city. DH and I lived there 4 years before we got married and bought our house. The tenant who replaced us is moving out in April and my grandparents live on the first floor (in their late 80s). I cannot stop thinking about selling our house and moving back up there. Would it be insanely selfish towards my kids to actually consider doing that? My mind is bouncing all over the place.

Pros:
-I'd be where I love and walkable to EVERYTHING- beach, 10 parks, the public school is directly across the street, culture, arts, pubs, restaurants, community, farmers markets, dog parks, boutiques. Can hop on the train 1 block away and be anywhere in the city.
-We have about $100k equity in our house we could pull out if we sold it
-Our mortgage is $2800 and my grandparents would charge us $800 for rent, we'd be saving $2000 per month extra.
-Id get to be near my grandparents and support them as their health declines

Cons:
-We'd lose our 2.75% mortgage which seems so financially irresponsible to give up
-This is morbid but once my grandparents pass away, the building will be sold so we'd likely only get to be there for a few years unless we bought it after that (may be possible if we save that $2k per month). But would likely require another move.
-The public elementary school across the street is highly rated, but the high school district is horrible so we'd have to look at private, testing into a magnet school, or moving (but we'd likely already have to be out of grandparents house well before we hit high school).
-We have no idea what the interest rates or housing markets would be like if we had to buy again in a couple of years, we may have financially screwed ourselves by losing our mortgage rate.

Neutral:
-Older DD would have to switch schools, but our current district has Kindergarten in a different location than elementary school so even if we stayed, she would be at a "new" school next year though half of the kids in her class would be there. Seems like a lot to make her switch to a new district next year and then potentially again in a few more years.
-Dh and I both work fully remote forever so no commutes to consider
-We live right by my in laws which is so nice, but they're moving out of state for retirement. We'd be moving right by my grandparents and mom.
-Going from a 5bd/2ba to 2bed + tiny den, 1ba (apartment is SMALL). On one hand being on top of each other and kids sharing a room seems scary. On the other I just have the vast desire to purge stuff, sell one of our calls, live much more minimalist. The apartment does have both front and back porches and a VERY large fenced in yard and a playground across the street.

WWYD?

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Anonymous wrote:As someone who lives in the city, I find being a “city person” sort or laughable, especially if you have kids. Who cares at some point? Are you really going to a lot of killer restaurant and bars if you have kids? Even if you are, isn’t there a point in your life where that all starts to seem a bit shallow? I would stay where you are. Frankly, op, you sound a bit childish to me.

No, you don't go to the killer restaurants and bars but you are able to take your kids to world class museums, theater, diverse schools, high-quality extra curricurlers, etc without having to drive everywhere.

NYC is probably the only US city with extra curriculars that does not require driving.

Museums get old. After the age of 9 your kids won’t want to hand at Smithsonian museums. I wouldn’t want to take the metro there on the weekend with kids and crime that has been going on.

There is theatre in all large cities and most suburbs/towns. Most people don’t go to the theatre weekly when they have kids.

Most cities don’t have diverse schools. They have schools with poor minority kids and then private schools or magnets for wealthy whites.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what is wrong with chain restaurants and coffee shops. They have all grown to be chains because what they offered was good.

It’s a lot of the same food - Chili’s is not that different than Applebee’s. But neither has Thai food or (as I ordered tonight from my city home) Pho. If you want fine dining or a menu that doesn’t have a chicken finger option you can’t go to a chain.

Good grief. The best Pho you can get (delivered or pick it up yourself) is in the suburbs of DC. Some of you are insufferable.

I didn't say you can't get Pho in the suburbs. I was responding to someone who asked why people are always knocking on chain restaurants. I think the knock is that they are very similar, not that they are bad, but if you want something different you don't go to a chain.

OP here- as I go through all these comments I realize I just REALLY like being part of my community. Living in the city for the first 26 years of my life I knew our butcher, the local diner owner, the bartenders at the pubs, the neighborhood grandma that owns the Italian deli, the ramen shop owner whose kids were always helping around the restaurant, the owner of the independent book store who gives back SO much to the local kids. I still go back and pop in those places and they ask about my kids, how my parents are, say they remember when I was first allowed to walk to those places with friends, etc. It's nothing like walking into a Chilis, having a bored teen as your waitress, and eating crappy deep fried food.

This isn’t unique to living in a city. It’s unique to NOT living in a soulless suburb.

I live in a small town and have a local butcher, farmers market, can walk/bike to parks, an independent book store where we always buy kid birthday parties, etc. No chains since they aren’t allowed. Actually we do have a CVS and that was controversial.

I do find city people a bit delusional about chains. They eat at sweetgreen and can’t understand that it’s a chain.

This isn't meant to be a city vs suburb debate. OP has a real decision to make about an actual piece of property in a neighborhood that she's lived in, in a building where her grandparents still live. Sure if that wasn't an option she could and should consider a wide variety of potential new neighborhoods, but in her reply above she's citing actual places that she knows and would be returning to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who lives in the city, I find being a “city person” sort or laughable, especially if you have kids. Who cares at some point? Are you really going to a lot of killer restaurant and bars if you have kids? Even if you are, isn’t there a point in your life where that all starts to seem a bit shallow? I would stay where you are. Frankly, op, you sound a bit childish to me.

No, you don't go to the killer restaurants and bars but you are able to take your kids to world class museums, theater, diverse schools, high-quality extra curricurlers, etc without having to drive everywhere.

as someone who lives in the city, being "a city person" does in fact mean going to lots of restaurants and bars with my kids. Our street closes to cars on the weekend half the year and restaurants set their tables up outside and the kids are biking and chalking and bumping into friends while we're hanging out, eating, listening to live music, etc. This is all happening like 800 feet from my apartment. Our life feels rich, spontaneous, and healthy.

Aww, I used to live around the corner from Southport Ave. in Chicago, which did this every other weekend in the summer when the Cubs were out of town. It was the best! We'd always eat outside at this great Argentinian restaurant (can't remember the name, but the sangria was goooooood) or Coalfire Pizza. There was this DJ with a bubble machine that my littlest one loved, and tons of kids on scooters and bikes.

Anonymous wrote:As someone who lives in the city, I find being a “city person” sort or laughable, especially if you have kids. Who cares at some point? Are you really going to a lot of killer restaurant and bars if you have kids? Even if you are, isn’t there a point in your life where that all starts to seem a bit shallow? I would stay where you are. Frankly, op, you sound a bit childish to me.