Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, it isn't only on DCUM.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/10/survey-31percent-of-millionaires-say-they-are-part-of-the-middle-class.html

A recent Ameriprise survey found that about 60% of milllionaires consider themselves "middle class." A quarter of households making $175k called themselves "very poor," "poor," or "getting by but things are tight." An Edelman Financial survey found that Americans said they'd need to earn $233,000 on average to feel financially secure and $483,000 to feel rich.

What about you?
1. What's your HHI and what do you consider yourself?
2. Do you feel poor, comfortable or rich? Why?
3. What level would you need to achieve to feel "rich?"

Small business owner; income $225k before taxes; net worth 1.2M excluding 2 homes; home value approx 1M; and I consider myself middle class. Am I more?

PP. Only child graduates HS and goes to college in 2025. Hoping he goes in state, but he may not. No 529 and he will not need student loans; There are liquid assets; only debt is about 150k on one home and $9000 left on a car. Open to feedback.

Anonymous wrote:See, it isn't only on DCUM.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/10/survey-31percent-of-millionaires-say-they-are-part-of-the-middle-class.html

A recent Ameriprise survey found that about 60% of milllionaires consider themselves "middle class." A quarter of households making $175k called themselves "very poor," "poor," or "getting by but things are tight." An Edelman Financial survey found that Americans said they'd need to earn $233,000 on average to feel financially secure and $483,000 to feel rich.

What about you?
1. What's your HHI and what do you consider yourself?
2. Do you feel poor, comfortable or rich? Why?
3. What level would you need to achieve to feel "rich?"

Small business owner; income $225k before taxes; net worth 1.2M excluding 2 homes; home value approx 1M; and I consider myself middle class. Am I more?

Anonymous wrote:See, it isn't only on DCUM.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/10/survey-31percent-of-millionaires-say-they-are-part-of-the-middle-class.html

A recent Ameriprise survey found that about 60% of milllionaires consider themselves "middle class." A quarter of households making $175k called themselves "very poor," "poor," or "getting by but things are tight." An Edelman Financial survey found that Americans said they'd need to earn $233,000 on average to feel financially secure and $483,000 to feel rich.

What about you?
1. What's your HHI and what do you consider yourself?
2. Do you feel poor, comfortable or rich? Why?
3. What level would you need to achieve to feel "rich?"

1. 350k, consider ourselves UMC
2. Comfortable in the day-to-day, definitely rich in the grand scheme of things
3. NW of maybe $6 or 7M would put me firmly into "rich" in my head. We don't have expensive tastes but we do have extended family we would like to help out if we had the means

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a HHI of about $250K. Two kids in private school. We are saving well for retirement and college. We take vacations… a couple a year. We don’t really worry much about money. No inheritance or family money. Living in the DMV.

We feel very UMC. We know we have options and advantages that many people don’t have.

Are these catholic private schools? We calculate (non-religious) private in our area around $120k a year for 2 kids, before paying for aftercare and summer camp. Are you spending 50% of your pretax income on schools?

They are Catholic. We pay ~$35K a year in tuition, so it is a big chunk of our income. We absolutely love these schools and what they offer our children, so that becomes a priority. We are happy we can afford it rather easily.

Reading through this thread, I see a trend. When people think about what they lack in relation to others, they feel less wealthy. I wonder if a perception shift would help. Most people posting here are extremely privileged, including me with my “mere” 250K a year.

Anonymous wrote:I believe it. There was a caller to the Ramsey show the other day that had $9M in investments and making $1.4 annually, who thought he shouldn't be spending $15k on a vacation. Even the hosts laughed at him.

Right but 9M on paper is different than 9M cash. Look at how much wealth evaporated from the CEO of Zoom after the pandemic ended.

Anonymous wrote:See, it isn't only on DCUM.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/10/survey-31percent-of-millionaires-say-they-are-part-of-the-middle-class.html

A recent Ameriprise survey found that about 60% of milllionaires consider themselves "middle class." A quarter of households making $175k called themselves "very poor," "poor," or "getting by but things are tight." An Edelman Financial survey found that Americans said they'd need to earn $233,000 on average to feel financially secure and $483,000 to feel rich.

What about you?
1. What's your HHI and what do you consider yourself?
2. Do you feel poor, comfortable or rich? Why?
3. What level would you need to achieve to feel "rich?"

Nice topic.

1. HHI varies. Last year before taxes it was 260k. It’s gone as high as 450k in the past. Market dependent.

2. Comfortable but definitely not rich.

3. NW of 10M to feel rich imo.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe it. There was a caller to the Ramsey show the other day that had $9M in investments and making $1.4 annually, who thought he shouldn't be spending $15k on a vacation. Even the hosts laughed at him.

That could be me. I have a hard time spending money on things like that. We did go over $15k last Christmas for a ski trip for a family of 5 adults (a big chunk of that was airfare, we were not staying in high end hotels). And only recently do we even pay for premium economy on international flights, I can’t bring myself to pay for business class when it’s $6-10k per person. I think it has to do with how I was raised which was to be frugal, almost to an extreme.

I felt the same way about business class international travel until after one 10 hour flight in economy it took my back almost three days to recover.

Yep. After a 13-hr flight to Africa in economy on Ethiopian Air ... I will never fly economy abroad again. Never. I'll vacation every other year instead of every year or whatever I have to do to pay for business class seats. But I will not fly that far in economy again.

Anonymous wrote:Millionaires ARE muddle class- they’re not poor, and they’re not phenomenally rich either. Up until the 1950s “middle class” meant something very different from “median income”. For most of human history, there were the aristocrats, the poor who worked the land, and a very small educated or tradesman class in the middle.

It’s the “middle class” that doesn’t realize they are actually poor or working class. If you can’t afford property, healthcare, education of some sort, and to not work for some period of your life, you’re not middle class, you’re working class. The fact that you have TVs, cars, and cheap food you bought on credit means nothing, really.

^^This. This is it exactly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all relative but many of you are correct- you can't afford the things that you think you are entitled to. I grew up in the 80s and my parents were upper middle class but they encouraged us to go in-state or go where we got the most merit aid. All 3 of us did that and got undergrad degrees with no debt. My parents had a mortgage and needed to save for retirement. Nothing wrong with it.

This is the problem though--the 5k my parents paid a semester for tuition for an in-state school in the 1990s, isn't 5k anymore. So a state school doesn't make it affordable necessarily.

Almost every state has schools that are $25-35K, all in. So instead of the $10K per year your parents put in, let's say $20K from parents (from savings and cash flow). If kid works summers, breaks and PT while in college (10 hours/week) they can earn 10K (or more). Take the $5.5K in federal loans and you are there for most state schools.

So for UMC that is doable and for MC that is likely also doable, might just need a bit more in parent loans if parents cannot pay $20K/year.
And many state schools (outside the top flagships) will offer a bit of merit for good students, so $2-4K in merit at minimum. Or find private schools that are more affordable. It is possible for MC/UMC to do college with only $80K or less from parents total over 4 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe it. There was a caller to the Ramsey show the other day that had $9M in investments and making $1.4 annually, who thought he shouldn't be spending $15k on a vacation. Even the hosts laughed at him.

That could be me. I have a hard time spending money on things like that. We did go over $15k last Christmas for a ski trip for a family of 5 adults (a big chunk of that was airfare, we were not staying in high end hotels). And only recently do we even pay for premium economy on international flights, I can’t bring myself to pay for business class when it’s $6-10k per person. I think it has to do with how I was raised which was to be frugal, almost to an extreme.

I felt the same way about business class international travel until after one 10 hour flight in economy it took my back almost three days to recover.

Anonymous wrote:We have a HHI of about $250K. Two kids in private school. We are saving well for retirement and college. We take vacations… a couple a year. We don’t really worry much about money. No inheritance or family money. Living in the DMV.

We feel very UMC. We know we have options and advantages that many people don’t have.

Are these catholic private schools? We calculate (non-religious) private in our area around $120k a year for 2 kids, before paying for aftercare and summer camp. Are you spending 50% of your pretax income on schools?

Anonymous wrote:I believe it. There was a caller to the Ramsey show the other day that had $9M in investments and making $1.4 annually, who thought he shouldn't be spending $15k on a vacation. Even the hosts laughed at him.

That could be me. I have a hard time spending money on things like that. We did go over $15k last Christmas for a ski trip for a family of 5 adults (a big chunk of that was airfare, we were not staying in high end hotels). And only recently do we even pay for premium economy on international flights, I can’t bring myself to pay for business class when it’s $6-10k per person. I think it has to do with how I was raised which was to be frugal, almost to an extreme.

Millionaires ARE muddle class- they’re not poor, and they’re not phenomenally rich either. Up until the 1950s “middle class” meant something very different from “median income”. For most of human history, there were the aristocrats, the poor who worked the land, and a very small educated or tradesman class in the middle.

It’s the “middle class” that doesn’t realize they are actually poor or working class. If you can’t afford property, healthcare, education of some sort, and to not work for some period of your life, you’re not middle class, you’re working class. The fact that you have TVs, cars, and cheap food you bought on credit means nothing, really.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These questions are so fact-specific. We earn a lot of money but my spouse insists on providing for extended family members, so we never feel rich, even though most of you would balk at that because our income is so high.

The ability to provide for extended family members is the purview of the rich.

This. People think rich is a feeling, and they don't feel rich because they don't have unlimited money, and it's so stupid.

Anonymous wrote:These questions are so fact-specific. We earn a lot of money but my spouse insists on providing for extended family members, so we never feel rich, even though most of you would balk at that because our income is so high.

The ability to provide for extended family members is the purview of the rich.