Anonymous wrote:The good news is that people can just move to other areas where students may have better behavior.

Or go private.

https://www.osibaltimore.org/2020/09/new-report-indicates-major-impact-of-restorative-practices-in-baltimore-city-schools/

School suspensions dropped by 44% in one year
72% of school staff reported improved school climate
69% of school staff reported improved student respect for one another
64% of school staff reported improved student respect for staff

[quote=Anonymous]I'm a democrat in all things, but when it comes to school boards enough is enough. Good teachers are leaving the profession in droves because the troubled kids have been allowed to take over the classrooms. And teachers can do nothing. Every other kid gets denied a quality education because so much time is lost due to the disruptive students. Post-pandemic education has nosedived and you can see it in every measurement of student achievement - math, language, everything.

It really is time to toss democrats off the school board. I don't care if republicans ban a book or two that no one reads anyway. Every child suffers when schools have been allowed to become such stressful and chaotic environments that genuine learning becomes impossible and teachers quit. Restorative justice is an attack on education and leads to much anxiety and confusion for the kids that are well-behaved and there to learn. And we lose so many teachers. No one wants to work in a classroom anymore.

Enough. [/quote]
So I feel your frustration but have there been examples of Republican SBs improving academic outcomes and dealing with behavioral issues differently? Like how do districts in red states deal with discipline? Does anyone know?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a good idea because it works.

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/jstc-rcdvs/index-en.aspx
The offenders who participated in the restorative justice program had lower recidivism rates than the matched group of probationers. With each year during the follow-up the differences in recidivism rates for the two groups widened. At the first year, the restorative justice offenders had a recidivism rate of 15% compared to 38% for the probation group. At the second year the respective rates were 28% and 54% and by the third year the rates were 35% and 66%.

https://thedcline.org/2018/07/27/restorative-justice-program-for-juveniles-aims-to-foster-empathy-heal-trauma/
In the 60 juvenile cases that have gone through this program since its inception in 2016, 48 have had successful outcomes, according to Gajwani. Success is measured by the rate of rearrests. Nationally, the rate of recidivism for youth who opt for restorative justice as opposed to a traditional court proceeding is at 40 percent.

You're citing juvenile court cases. Taking restorative justice from that concept to schools is like using a blowtorch for weeding. Wrong tool, wrong setting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/07/15/restorative-justice-montgomery-county-schools/
"A recent report by Sean Darling-Hammond, assistant professor of health and education at UCLA, indicates that restorative practices improve middle school students’ academic achievement, while reducing suspension rates and disparities, misbehavior, substance abuse and student mental health challenges."

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED596786.pdf
"The earlier discussion about RJ theory suggests that a well-implemented program could
reduce punitive disciplinary actions and problem behavior over time (Tyler, 2006). All the
empirical studies we reviewed report a decrease in exclusionary discipline and harmful
behavior (e.g., violence) after implementing some type of RJ program. "

"But, across the studies, school attendance tended to improve after
RJ implementation. Baker (2009), for example, reports that students who participated in
an RJ program12 experienced a 50-percent reduction in absenteeism during the first year of
implementation and a decrease in tardiness of about 64 percent. "

"70 percent of staff reported
that RJ improved overall school climate during the first year of implementation."

It works in schools too.

No it doesn't.

Where is the data to support your opinion?

The studies show that it works.

Several people earlier in this thread reported their dismal and failed experiences here in FCPS when it was attempted.

In FCPS, it does not work apparently.

Anecdotal…

Look at the studies. It works.

No, Dr Reid. It doesn't.

What were effects to the victims under restorative justice program vs traditional discpline.

Do they experience more frequent or less frequent problem. That is more interest to me than effect to the perpentrator.

Great question. I’ll look for data on that.

RJ does also work on prevention. So hopefully fewer kids are bullied in the first place. It’s also victim-centered so hopefully victims come out of it with their needs addressed.

Looks like it’s a voluntary process that requires parent approval and can be used in conjunction with (or after) appropriate disciplinary actions (suspension):
https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/forms/RJInformationPacket.pdf

I like that it makes bullies directly accountable to their victims.

The good news is that people can just move to other areas where students may have better behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an extension of ongoing DEI virtue signaling with approaches that are not backed by evidence. It's also disturbing that it's just asserted that there are disparities in discipline. I would be willing to bet that the data do not support this. If anything students from certain groups are probably more likely to get handled with kid gloves than given consequences that might actually improve their behavior and/or the school environment. It's f'd up that families are expected to just stand by and tolerate an increasingly unsafe environment for their kids in the name of social justice.

You're really trying to rebut their "no evidence" with your own "no evidence"?

You aren't willing to bet unless you actually bet.

DP. FCPS publishes discipline statistics for schools and demographics - and they've changed. Suspensions for white children have increased and suspensions for Black children have significantly dropped. Has the behavior of the all children changed dramatically? That is unreported.

+1. I'm the PP who "betted" that there are no disparities in discipline. The claim that there are disparities rests on the notion that students of certain racial backgrounds (black, hispanic) are disproportionately targeted and punished for behavior, because of their race. This is asserted as fact because of correlational data, disregarding the possibility that, actually, kids in these groups actually are acting up more. The ideology does not allow for this to be spoken or acknowledged. I see this in research as well, which has a strong left-wing bias. The only way you'd know if students were disproportionately targeted is if you assessed if students with the exact same history and same behaviors were given different punishments. This study has not been done.

No, not “targeted.” The point of the research is the bias is much more subtle than that.

It also patterns incarceration in the justice system.

What does this even mean? Be specific.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think it's a good idea because it works.

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/jstc-rcdvs/index-en.aspx
The offenders who participated in the restorative justice program had lower recidivism rates than the matched group of probationers. With each year during the follow-up the differences in recidivism rates for the two groups widened. At the first year, the restorative justice offenders had a recidivism rate of 15% compared to 38% for the probation group. At the second year the respective rates were 28% and 54% and by the third year the rates were 35% and 66%.

https://thedcline.org/2018/07/27/restorative-justice-program-for-juveniles-aims-to-foster-empathy-heal-trauma/
In the 60 juvenile cases that have gone through this program since its inception in 2016, 48 have had successful outcomes, according to Gajwani. Success is measured by the rate of rearrests. Nationally, the rate of recidivism for youth who opt for restorative justice as opposed to a traditional court proceeding is at 40 percent.
[/quote]

You're citing juvenile court cases. Taking restorative justice from that concept to schools is like using a blowtorch for weeding. Wrong tool, wrong setting.[/quote]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/07/15/restorative-justice-montgomery-county-schools/
[i]"A recent report by Sean Darling-Hammond, assistant professor of health and education at UCLA, indicates that restorative practices improve middle school students’ academic achievement, while reducing suspension rates and disparities, misbehavior, substance abuse and student mental health challenges."[/i]

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED596786.pdf
[i]"The earlier discussion about RJ theory suggests that a well-implemented program could
reduce punitive disciplinary actions and problem behavior over time (Tyler, 2006). [b]All the
empirical studies we reviewed report a decrease in exclusionary discipline and harmful
behavior [/b](e.g., violence) after implementing some type of RJ program. "

"But, across the studies, [b]school attendance tended to improve[/b] after
RJ implementation. Baker (2009), for example, reports that students who participated in
an RJ program12 experienced a 50-percent reduction in absenteeism during the first year of
implementation and a decrease in tardiness of about 64 percent. "

"70 percent of staff reported
that RJ [b]improved overall school climate[/b] during the first year of implementation."

[/i]
[/quote]

It works in schools too. [/quote]

No it doesn't. [/quote]

Where is the data to support your opinion?

The studies show that it works. [/quote]

Several people earlier in this thread reported their dismal and failed experiences here in FCPS when it was attempted.

In FCPS, it does not work apparently.[/quote]

Anecdotal…

Look at the studies. It works.
[/quote]

No, Dr Reid. It doesn't. [/quote]

What were effects to the victims under restorative justice program vs traditional discpline.

Do they experience more frequent or less frequent problem. That is more interest to me than effect to the perpentrator.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an extension of ongoing DEI virtue signaling with approaches that are not backed by evidence. It's also disturbing that it's just asserted that there are disparities in discipline. I would be willing to bet that the data do not support this. If anything students from certain groups are probably more likely to get handled with kid gloves than given consequences that might actually improve their behavior and/or the school environment. It's f'd up that families are expected to just stand by and tolerate an increasingly unsafe environment for their kids in the name of social justice.

You're really trying to rebut their "no evidence" with your own "no evidence"?

You aren't willing to bet unless you actually bet.

DP. FCPS publishes discipline statistics for schools and demographics - and they've changed. Suspensions for white children have increased and suspensions for Black children have significantly dropped. Has the behavior of the all children changed dramatically? That is unreported.

+1. I'm the PP who "betted" that there are no disparities in discipline. The claim that there are disparities rests on the notion that students of certain racial backgrounds (black, hispanic) are disproportionately targeted and punished for behavior, because of their race. This is asserted as fact because of correlational data, disregarding the possibility that, actually, kids in these groups actually are acting up more. The ideology does not allow for this to be spoken or acknowledged. I see this in research as well, which has a strong left-wing bias. The only way you'd know if students were disproportionately targeted is if you assessed if students with the exact same history and same behaviors were given different punishments. This study has not been done.

No, not “targeted.” The point of the research is the bias is much more subtle than that.

It also patterns incarceration in the justice system.

Actually, the point of the research is to show exactly that, that Black and Hispanic students are disproportionately and inappropriately targeted purely due to their skin color and teacher bias rather than any other reason. Read the studies. Their conclusions are not subtle or nuanced.

Checks problematic stats from other countries

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a good idea because it works.

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/jstc-rcdvs/index-en.aspx
The offenders who participated in the restorative justice program had lower recidivism rates than the matched group of probationers. With each year during the follow-up the differences in recidivism rates for the two groups widened. At the first year, the restorative justice offenders had a recidivism rate of 15% compared to 38% for the probation group. At the second year the respective rates were 28% and 54% and by the third year the rates were 35% and 66%.

https://thedcline.org/2018/07/27/restorative-justice-program-for-juveniles-aims-to-foster-empathy-heal-trauma/
In the 60 juvenile cases that have gone through this program since its inception in 2016, 48 have had successful outcomes, according to Gajwani. Success is measured by the rate of rearrests. Nationally, the rate of recidivism for youth who opt for restorative justice as opposed to a traditional court proceeding is at 40 percent.

Watch out. If you post a link someone might read it and quote it.

"Providing some form of restitution to victims was the activity most associated with reductions in offender recidivism."

Giving victims a poop sandwich and calling it Restorative Justice doesn't make it work or good.

If restitution does lead to reduced recidivism then it is working.

At the juvenile justice level - not at the school level.

It makes sense. Let’s say someone vandalized, I don’t know, playground equipment in a public park. And was caught. Instead of just sentencing the vandal to juvie, jail, probation, etc. the restorative consequence would be helping to repair the playground. Targeted community service basically. But there are a lot of things in the schools where there’s not an immediate restorative consequence. A kid is being bullied, all that kid wants is to be left alone and to be separated from the bullies. Not to talk about their feelings in a drum circle or whatever.

Asking people to put someone else’s problem child ahead of their own kid is the definition of insane.

As human parents, we’re programmed to ensure our own children remain healthy and survive. Other people’s children are important but will always come second.

It’s clear school districts were targeted and *SOLD* a bill of goods while they had loads of federal money on their hands. “It’s expensive, but I’ve got the perfect program to help you with all of that white guilt!”

Everyone needs to get over themselves and go back to basics.

Worry about your own kids. Worry about yourself!

I am so thankful every day that I don't have to send my kids to fcps. But it makes me so sad for the students. We as a society are failing our kids.

But for the first time, I’ll make sure I vote in the SB elections.

I'm a democrat in all things, but when it comes to school boards enough is enough. Good teachers are leaving the profession in droves because the troubled kids have been allowed to take over the classrooms. And teachers can do nothing. Every other kid gets denied a quality education because so much time is lost due to the disruptive students. Post-pandemic education has nosedived and you can see it in every measurement of student achievement - math, language, everything.

It really is time to toss democrats off the school board. I don't care if republicans ban a book or two that no one reads anyway. Every child suffers when schools have been allowed to become such stressful and chaotic environments that genuine learning becomes impossible and teachers quit. Restorative justice is an attack on education and leads to much anxiety and confusion for the kids that are well-behaved and there to learn. And we lose so many teachers. No one wants to work in a classroom anymore.

Enough.

I guess we will be waiting a very long time for you to come up with the data to support your (biased, inaccurate) opinion.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think it's a good idea because it works.

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/jstc-rcdvs/index-en.aspx
The offenders who participated in the restorative justice program had lower recidivism rates than the matched group of probationers. With each year during the follow-up the differences in recidivism rates for the two groups widened. At the first year, the restorative justice offenders had a recidivism rate of 15% compared to 38% for the probation group. At the second year the respective rates were 28% and 54% and by the third year the rates were 35% and 66%.

https://thedcline.org/2018/07/27/restorative-justice-program-for-juveniles-aims-to-foster-empathy-heal-trauma/
In the 60 juvenile cases that have gone through this program since its inception in 2016, 48 have had successful outcomes, according to Gajwani. Success is measured by the rate of rearrests. Nationally, the rate of recidivism for youth who opt for restorative justice as opposed to a traditional court proceeding is at 40 percent.
[/quote]

You're citing juvenile court cases. Taking restorative justice from that concept to schools is like using a blowtorch for weeding. Wrong tool, wrong setting.[/quote]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/07/15/restorative-justice-montgomery-county-schools/
[i]"A recent report by Sean Darling-Hammond, assistant professor of health and education at UCLA, indicates that restorative practices improve middle school students’ academic achievement, while reducing suspension rates and disparities, misbehavior, substance abuse and student mental health challenges."[/i]

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED596786.pdf
[i]"The earlier discussion about RJ theory suggests that a well-implemented program could
reduce punitive disciplinary actions and problem behavior over time (Tyler, 2006). [b]All the
empirical studies we reviewed report a decrease in exclusionary discipline and harmful
behavior [/b](e.g., violence) after implementing some type of RJ program. "

"But, across the studies, [b]school attendance tended to improve[/b] after
RJ implementation. Baker (2009), for example, reports that students who participated in
an RJ program12 experienced a 50-percent reduction in absenteeism during the first year of
implementation and a decrease in tardiness of about 64 percent. "

"70 percent of staff reported
that RJ [b]improved overall school climate[/b] during the first year of implementation."

[/i]
[/quote]

It works in schools too. [/quote]

No it doesn't. [/quote]

Where is the data to support your opinion?

The studies show that it works. [/quote]

Several people earlier in this thread reported their dismal and failed experiences here in FCPS when it was attempted.

In FCPS, it does not work apparently.[/quote]

Anecdotal…

Look at the studies. It works.
[/quote]

No, Dr Reid. It doesn't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a good idea because it works.

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/jstc-rcdvs/index-en.aspx
The offenders who participated in the restorative justice program had lower recidivism rates than the matched group of probationers. With each year during the follow-up the differences in recidivism rates for the two groups widened. At the first year, the restorative justice offenders had a recidivism rate of 15% compared to 38% for the probation group. At the second year the respective rates were 28% and 54% and by the third year the rates were 35% and 66%.

https://thedcline.org/2018/07/27/restorative-justice-program-for-juveniles-aims-to-foster-empathy-heal-trauma/
In the 60 juvenile cases that have gone through this program since its inception in 2016, 48 have had successful outcomes, according to Gajwani. Success is measured by the rate of rearrests. Nationally, the rate of recidivism for youth who opt for restorative justice as opposed to a traditional court proceeding is at 40 percent.

You're citing juvenile court cases. Taking restorative justice from that concept to schools is like using a blowtorch for weeding. Wrong tool, wrong setting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/07/15/restorative-justice-montgomery-county-schools/
"A recent report by Sean Darling-Hammond, assistant professor of health and education at UCLA, indicates that restorative practices improve middle school students’ academic achievement, while reducing suspension rates and disparities, misbehavior, substance abuse and student mental health challenges."

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED596786.pdf
"The earlier discussion about RJ theory suggests that a well-implemented program could
reduce punitive disciplinary actions and problem behavior over time (Tyler, 2006). All the
empirical studies we reviewed report a decrease in exclusionary discipline and harmful
behavior (e.g., violence) after implementing some type of RJ program. "

"But, across the studies, school attendance tended to improve after
RJ implementation. Baker (2009), for example, reports that students who participated in
an RJ program12 experienced a 50-percent reduction in absenteeism during the first year of
implementation and a decrease in tardiness of about 64 percent. "

"70 percent of staff reported
that RJ improved overall school climate during the first year of implementation."

It works in schools too.

No it doesn't.

Where is the data to support your opinion?

The studies show that it works.

Several people earlier in this thread reported their dismal and failed experiences here in FCPS when it was attempted.

In FCPS, it does not work apparently.

Anecdotal…

Look at the studies. It works.