Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sons will be told to marry a girl with her own income.

Just like my parents told me to always be able to support myself (keep a foot in the workplace) because you never know what will happen in life.

Get an ironclad pre-nup.

I was told the same and have yet to find a man that didn’t feel like I was competing with him in some fashion. Or even worse - men who can’t pull their own weight. Even if I wanted to be the stay at home type- I’ve been conditioned not to be and am essentially “priced out” of the market. I never found my equal.. either they wanted to control or be babies.

Yep. Heaven forbid a woman’s career go better than the man’s, especially if they come in as “equal”. Things do no stay the same and always move in a upwards trajectory. The ones posting here thinking they can control all this stuff are hilarious. You don’t want to be married. You don’t want kids. You can’t control those outcomes so stay single. You’ll be here posting about pathetic and lonely you are, but you’ll have your assets.

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Anonymous wrote:What’s the attraction to a woman who makes only 1/10 your income? I suspect that’s not the only imbalance. Question why you want to be with someone who is okay with this imbalance. Question why you are okay with this imbalance.

I think your whole relationship is a red flag: she’s presumable less educated than you, statistically she is less intelligent than you, less driven. What’s the connection?

So a person's income is part of "attraction" in your mind. Got it. And anyone who doesn't make a certain income level is presumed to be less intelligent, less educated and less driven.

PP, you won't believe this because you are surely certain your experience and values are The Only Way, but your life experience of different types of people, with careers and values different from your own, is extremely limited. How sad for you. But you're probably in an echo chamber of like-minded people who will only associate with those in their income bracket and who live on assumptions that those not in particular fields are not driven, intelligent or educated, because you associate those qualities only with income levels. Enjoy the bubble.

No that’s not what I said. I said that with a low income comes other statistically likely things. Someone making $500k is stistcically more likely to be intelligent, well educated and driven than someone making $50k. It’s so statistically likely that I think it’s safe to assume ops gf is all those things unless he tells us otherwise. I think all of those things are red flags. Not the lack of income by itself, but all the correlating features that are probably true here.

Also, any woman who is 27 and making $50k (again, making some assumptions here) is well, not super financially responsible. Instead of putting in their own hard work to guarantee a financial future, their plan is to (hopefully) find a man and let him do the hard work. You can build a financially stable life on $50k. So yeah that’s another huge red flag: overall irresponsibility.

What if she is a school teacher at a private school? They are probably high IQ, but not well off.

Any super bright woman making $50k as a private school teacher is 100% banking on meeting and marrying a rich dude. That's not an income you can plan a life around.

Hence, totally financially irresponsible and not planning ahead.

You offered a great example to prove my point.

It’s mostly a moot point because the truly super bright and well educated private school teachers I know pretty much all come from money to begin with.

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Anonymous wrote:I mean, you are banking half of your income on her, but she is banking ALL of her youth and beauty on you.
You both have a lot to lose in a divorce.

Oh, not to mention her ability to bear children. If she marries you and stays married long enough to get alimony, you are going to be the father of her children.
She’s putting everything she has on you being a good guy who will love her and take care of her.

This is a much bigger risk for the woman.

Right? OP is worried about losing half, but his girlfriend is putting everything she has on the line.

The internalized misogyny of this statement is breathtaking.

Yep, the womb ultimately goes to the highest bidder.

I doubt it. She probably loves him and thinks he loves her and wants to be a good husband and father. Here he is not caring about any of that, obsessing about money, and thinking about divorce.
It kind of makes me sick.

Anonymous wrote:My sons will be told to marry a girl with her own income.

Just like my parents told me to always be able to support myself (keep a foot in the workplace) because you never know what will happen in life.

Get an ironclad pre-nup.

I was told the same and have yet to find a man that didn’t feel like I was competing with him in some fashion. Or even worse - men who can’t pull their own weight. Even if I wanted to be the stay at home type- I’ve been conditioned not to be and am essentially “priced out” of the market. I never found my equal.. either they wanted to control or be babies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These idealized views of marriage are quaint. You can legally protect yourself and determine the terms of the marriage contract in every state with a prenup. If you are ok leaving yourself exposed, your choice.

Marriage is quaint, you idiot. Just don’t do it. There is literally no reason to. Just date other high earners and live your separate lives.

And dont give me any “but i want kids” drama. You don’t. Too much of a financial hit.

Eh even George Clooney blinked. Men are desperate to be married, just look at quickly most marry after a divorce or widowhood.

Clooney’s no spring chicken. He plays by the old generation’s rule.

Anonymous wrote:Marrying someone who does not have a stable or well paying career is risky. My husband's ex, who initiated their divorce in what I think was a very self destructive move, is a financial disaster. It sucks for everyone involved - my husband who has to raise financially support his children with next to no help from his ex, her because she is broke (having run through all the money from the divorce settlement), and her kids who will have to support her. Her career was unstable when they married around age 27, she couldn't support herself before they married so they lived together, she never got her career off the ground, she became a SAHM, and now she is broke.

If I had sons, I would recommend they marry a woman with a stable, reasonably well paying career who can support herself and who wants to keep her career going.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These idealized views of marriage are quaint. You can legally protect yourself and determine the terms of the marriage contract in every state with a prenup. If you are ok leaving yourself exposed, your choice.

Marriage is quaint, you idiot. Just don’t do it. There is literally no reason to. Just date other high earners and live your separate lives.

And dont give me any “but i want kids” drama. You don’t. Too much of a financial hit.

Eh even George Clooney blinked. Men are desperate to be married, just look at quickly most marry after a divorce or widowhood.

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Anonymous wrote:What’s the attraction to a woman who makes only 1/10 your income? I suspect that’s not the only imbalance. Question why you want to be with someone who is okay with this imbalance. Question why you are okay with this imbalance.

I think your whole relationship is a red flag: she’s presumable less educated than you, statistically she is less intelligent than you, less driven. What’s the connection?

So a person's income is part of "attraction" in your mind. Got it. And anyone who doesn't make a certain income level is presumed to be less intelligent, less educated and less driven.

PP, you won't believe this because you are surely certain your experience and values are The Only Way, but your life experience of different types of people, with careers and values different from your own, is extremely limited. How sad for you. But you're probably in an echo chamber of like-minded people who will only associate with those in their income bracket and who live on assumptions that those not in particular fields are not driven, intelligent or educated, because you associate those qualities only with income levels. Enjoy the bubble.

No that’s not what I said. I said that with a low income comes other statistically likely things. Someone making $500k is stistcically more likely to be intelligent, well educated and driven than someone making $50k. It’s so statistically likely that I think it’s safe to assume ops gf is all those things unless he tells us otherwise. I think all of those things are red flags. Not the lack of income by itself, but all the correlating features that are probably true here.

Also, any woman who is 27 and making $50k (again, making some assumptions here) is well, not super financially responsible. Instead of putting in their own hard work to guarantee a financial future, their plan is to (hopefully) find a man and let him do the hard work. You can build a financially stable life on $50k. So yeah that’s another huge red flag: overall irresponsibility.

What if she is a school teacher at a private school? They are probably high IQ, but not well off.

Any super bright woman making $50k as a private school teacher is 100% banking on meeting and marrying a rich dude. That's not an income you can plan a life around.

Hence, totally financially irresponsible and not planning ahead.

You offered a great example to prove my point.

And some men are okay with that, because that job provides benefits for the rich dude.

Now if you are not rich enough to afford that kind of marriage, marry your financial equal. As one PP said, you can't have it all.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the attraction to a woman who makes only 1/10 your income? I suspect that’s not the only imbalance. Question why you want to be with someone who is okay with this imbalance. Question why you are okay with this imbalance.

I think your whole relationship is a red flag: she’s presumable less educated than you, statistically she is less intelligent than you, less driven. What’s the connection?

So a person's income is part of "attraction" in your mind. Got it. And anyone who doesn't make a certain income level is presumed to be less intelligent, less educated and less driven.

PP, you won't believe this because you are surely certain your experience and values are The Only Way, but your life experience of different types of people, with careers and values different from your own, is extremely limited. How sad for you. But you're probably in an echo chamber of like-minded people who will only associate with those in their income bracket and who live on assumptions that those not in particular fields are not driven, intelligent or educated, because you associate those qualities only with income levels. Enjoy the bubble.

No that’s not what I said. I said that with a low income comes other statistically likely things. Someone making $500k is stistcically more likely to be intelligent, well educated and driven than someone making $50k. It’s so statistically likely that I think it’s safe to assume ops gf is all those things unless he tells us otherwise. I think all of those things are red flags. Not the lack of income by itself, but all the correlating features that are probably true here.

Also, any woman who is 27 and making $50k (again, making some assumptions here) is well, not super financially responsible. Instead of putting in their own hard work to guarantee a financial future, their plan is to (hopefully) find a man and let him do the hard work. You can build a financially stable life on $50k. So yeah that’s another huge red flag: overall irresponsibility.

What if she is a school teacher at a private school? They are probably high IQ, but not well off.

Any super bright woman making $50k as a private school teacher is 100% banking on meeting and marrying a rich dude. That's not an income you can plan a life around.

Hence, totally financially irresponsible and not planning ahead.

You offered a great example to prove my point.

What are you talking about? She is smart, well educated, has a secure, flexible, highly portable job. Her kids can go to a private school for free. What makes you think she is financially irresponsible?

Anonymous wrote:I would compare worst-case scenarios. How do you feel about worst-case not being with her versus worst-case being together (within reason)? Do you want to be with someone who makes a tenth of what you make and might become a SAHM? Some working partners love and honor the SAHM role, while others feel trapped and resentful.

Also, What makes you think you’d be ruined financially if you got divorced? I’m not disagreeing with this idea, but want more explanation. Are you worried about alimony payments stretching forever, for example. You can create a prenup with her that protects you both in that scenario, while you’re still happy and wanting the best for each other. After all, neither of you wants to be left clawing at each other over resources if you split up and hate each other.

Why would I want the best for her if she breaks the marriage vow?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These idealized views of marriage are quaint. You can legally protect yourself and determine the terms of the marriage contract in every state with a prenup. If you are ok leaving yourself exposed, your choice.

Marriage is quaint, you idiot. Just don’t do it. There is literally no reason to. Just date other high earners and live your separate lives.

And dont give me any “but i want kids” drama. You don’t. Too much of a financial hit.

I guess I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. The law allows you to get married and waive specific rights. We all look at things differently.

I mean, of course you can choose to proceed as you wish. But in terms of OP, the guy doesn’t want to get married. It’s obvious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These idealized views of marriage are quaint. You can legally protect yourself and determine the terms of the marriage contract in every state with a prenup. If you are ok leaving yourself exposed, your choice.

Marriage is quaint, you idiot. Just don’t do it. There is literally no reason to. Just date other high earners and live your separate lives.

And dont give me any “but i want kids” drama. You don’t. Too much of a financial hit.

I guess I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. The law allows you to get married and waive specific rights. We all look at things differently.

Anonymous wrote:Look at Michael J. Fox and his wife. He was stricken by Parkinson's Disease. His wife stayed with him. He had to change courses in his life.

OP marriage is in sickness and in health, richer or poorer, til death do you part. When you exchange those vows, you should be prepared for almost anything happening. That's what a commitment means.

If you can't make that commitment, then don't. Why not have a prenup that is fair to both husband and wife? Unless your wife cheats on you or abuses you in some way, you're both making the financial decisions for you to be the primary breadwinner. If you don't want that, then find a woman who will continue working.

DP. Glad you brought up the fact that we cannot predict what life is going to hand us that is totally outside our control -- like our spouse, ourselves, or our child be stricken with a condition, a disease, being injured in an accident and forever changed. It really does happen.

OP sounds like someone who might consider his "deal" with his wife void if she were impaired. He's already concerned about the idea of her being an SAHM. He's already fixated on what percentage of his fat income she now earns and how that isn't enough. Imagine if she developed Parkinson's, or had a stroke (young people do indeed have strokes), or were injured irrevocably in an accident, or, or, or....Would OP see her as a drain on the finances and a roadblock to the lifestyle they expected?

Actual love for the person, as opposed to an interest mostly in sexual availability and financial lifestyle, means being willing to stay and chart a new course as a team. I know someone who suddenly became seriously disabled in his mid-40s and his spouse has been an incredible rock, and is caregiver and chauffeur, cheerleader and thorn in the side when needed, because they are a team no matter what. I do not see OP being that level of spouse, if he is this focused on "what about ME" before they are even married. So, OP, picture your fiancee if she were ill, or disabled, possibly for life, and ask yourself bluntly if you would stay with her and work out who you are as a couple, no matter what. If you cannot say you are committed in that way, let her go now.

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Anonymous wrote:I mean, you are banking half of your income on her, but she is banking ALL of her youth and beauty on you.
You both have a lot to lose in a divorce.

Oh, not to mention her ability to bear children. If she marries you and stays married long enough to get alimony, you are going to be the father of her children.
She’s putting everything she has on you being a good guy who will love her and take care of her.

This is a much bigger risk for the woman.

Right? OP is worried about losing half, but his girlfriend is putting everything she has on the line.

The internalized misogyny of this statement is breathtaking.

Yep, the womb ultimately goes to the highest bidder.

Because beauty and breeding are the only values women possess, apparently.

What values are important in a mate that aren't needed in a friend? I have many friends with many virtues, but that's not a reason to marry any of them.

THEN DON’T MARRY ANYONE.

I just can’t believe this stupid thread is this many pages when the answer is in front of your face.

Anonymous wrote:A pre nup is not necessarily, "sign this document that protects ME and all MY assets or I won't marry you". It's, let's have a friendly and reasonable conversation today which outlines, should our marriage ever end, how we BOTH will be protected." Obviously she'd be a fool to just sign something that lets you keep everything if you cheat and dump her in 20 years or whatever. And your desire to protect your assets is also reasonable. See a lawyer who may have ideas on how to proceed.

Anyone who would be "ruined" in a divorce is looking for a house slave, because they couldn't afford to hire someone to of the work they expect their spouse to do.