Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a mom of older kids, I'm confused why everyone things the pandemic told them something new. Yes the pandemic sucked but we weren't supported before the pandemic either.

Yeah but the pandemic shook up the delicate balance we had to manage. My kids’ preschool closed for a while and then drastically cut hours to put kids in cohorts when they reopened. Then instead of the usual burning through PTO for routine illnesses, we were all hemorrhaging leave for 10 day quarantines often while our kids were perfectly healthy. Or if we were “lucky” told we could catch up on work at night, which isn’t really sustainable. The icing on the cake was the total shutdown of places like playgrounds so we were truly stuck at home going crazy, no play dates, no mom group meetups, etc.

So not only did we not have support, but we also had societal factors coming together to make things even harder.

Some of you act like you were uniquely affected by the pandemic. Talk to families with teens and high school teachers…rampant mental health issues amongst that age group. High school and college years derailed.
Or talk to nursing home personnel (I volunteer at one)….the isolation and feelings of abandonment for many elderly, including people approaching death with no access to loved ones was horrible. I get that many of you are not in a good place, but so are other people. Please stop acting as if you were uniquely victimized by the pandemic. Some of you have no fricken clue.

Please stop telling people how to feel, or rather how they’re allowed to feel, based on the fact that others may have had it worse. (And you truly have no idea the extent to what ANY posters have gone through.) Please try to have a little empathy.

I think that’s what saddens me the most about covid. What a missed opportunity for self-reflection and the development of a more functional, loving, supportive society. Instead, hypercapitalism has run amok and nobody knows how to function “normally” anymore, because it seems there’s no baseline anymore. It’s awful.

What does this actually mean and look like IRL for your average working parent? Free daycares? Relatives babysitting your kids? Long maternity leaves?

I don’t quite get the “support” everyone is saying that they need. Raising kids is hard work and I don’t see how support can make it all that easier. Maternity leave has to eventually end and even a free daycare has its many challenges.

If you want an easier life, be a SAHM but that comes with its own set of challenges.

Did you really just say that you don't understand why people want "support" or how it would make anything easier? WTF?

Yes, I did and I notice you didn’t respond to my specific question.

What does this support look like? My assumption is you want others to provide you with *free labor.*. By others I mean mostly women. You want the government to provide you childcare, grandparents to babysit, neighbors to pitch in, other employees to pick up your slack at work, etc.

DP. No, what I think we need is a return to community. This could be organized by community centers or by neighborhoods or by organizations. There are already groups who do this, including schools, local businesses, civic centers, and other groups - but while this used to be a mainstay of American life, it no longer is and people are insular, isolated, and unhappy.

In order to implement this, it requires two things: organizers and organizees - people need to be show up, attend, in order to be part of the group. We're all very independent-minded but it's hurting us. We need to become a bit more community-minded.

No one is gonna give you a community. You have to build it. It takes time and effort. You have to give of yourself to receive something back. If you want a community then make one.

This is false. Or like a half truth.

You can actually just sort of be handed community. Some people with certain kinds of family have community in their family and it's not something they built, they were born to it. There are similar things with be invited/accepted into certain existing communities, by virtue of where you go to school or where you live or having certain qualities or abilities. You don't have to build those communities, they already exist. But you do have to earn admission, which sometimes is a fair process and sometimes is more about luck.

You can also put effort into building community and have it not happen. Sometimes you just don't have the right personality or skills. You can't build a community on your own if people just aren't drawn to you or you just don't have certain people skills. I've watched people try to do this and it's painful.

Anyway, I think better advice is to seek out community, whether it's an existing community you can join or maybe people in your life who could be gathered together to form community somehow. Or changing your idea of what it looks like -- maybe it's more of a loose coalition of neighbors, maybe it's the parents from school who you'll never be best friends with but who could be a parenting community. But the idea that the only way to have community is to build it yourself from scratch is actually really awful advice, because that is simply not achievable for many people and it's not necessary for others.

Point is, they aren't going to knock on your door. And if you can't find one that already exists, you can complain or you can make one. Every existing community has people who decided to make it so. It seems many posters just want to complain and blame covid rather than sorting their own situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a mom of older kids, I'm confused why everyone things the pandemic told them something new. Yes the pandemic sucked but we weren't supported before the pandemic either.

Yeah but the pandemic shook up the delicate balance we had to manage. My kids’ preschool closed for a while and then drastically cut hours to put kids in cohorts when they reopened. Then instead of the usual burning through PTO for routine illnesses, we were all hemorrhaging leave for 10 day quarantines often while our kids were perfectly healthy. Or if we were “lucky” told we could catch up on work at night, which isn’t really sustainable. The icing on the cake was the total shutdown of places like playgrounds so we were truly stuck at home going crazy, no play dates, no mom group meetups, etc.

So not only did we not have support, but we also had societal factors coming together to make things even harder.

Some of you act like you were uniquely affected by the pandemic. Talk to families with teens and high school teachers…rampant mental health issues amongst that age group. High school and college years derailed.
Or talk to nursing home personnel (I volunteer at one)….the isolation and feelings of abandonment for many elderly, including people approaching death with no access to loved ones was horrible. I get that many of you are not in a good place, but so are other people. Please stop acting as if you were uniquely victimized by the pandemic. Some of you have no fricken clue.

Please stop telling people how to feel, or rather how they’re allowed to feel, based on the fact that others may have had it worse. (And you truly have no idea the extent to what ANY posters have gone through.) Please try to have a little empathy.

I think that’s what saddens me the most about covid. What a missed opportunity for self-reflection and the development of a more functional, loving, supportive society. Instead, hypercapitalism has run amok and nobody knows how to function “normally” anymore, because it seems there’s no baseline anymore. It’s awful.

What does this actually mean and look like IRL for your average working parent? Free daycares? Relatives babysitting your kids? Long maternity leaves?

I don’t quite get the “support” everyone is saying that they need. Raising kids is hard work and I don’t see how support can make it all that easier. Maternity leave has to eventually end and even a free daycare has its many challenges.

If you want an easier life, be a SAHM but that comes with its own set of challenges.

Did you really just say that you don't understand why people want "support" or how it would make anything easier? WTF?

Yes, I did and I notice you didn’t respond to my specific question.

What does this support look like? My assumption is you want others to provide you with *free labor.*. By others I mean mostly women. You want the government to provide you childcare, grandparents to babysit, neighbors to pitch in, other employees to pick up your slack at work, etc.

DP. No, what I think we need is a return to community. This could be organized by community centers or by neighborhoods or by organizations. There are already groups who do this, including schools, local businesses, civic centers, and other groups - but while this used to be a mainstay of American life, it no longer is and people are insular, isolated, and unhappy.

In order to implement this, it requires two things: organizers and organizees - people need to be show up, attend, in order to be part of the group. We're all very independent-minded but it's hurting us. We need to become a bit more community-minded.

No one is gonna give you a community. You have to build it. It takes time and effort. You have to give of yourself to receive something back. If you want a community then make one.

This is false. Or like a half truth.

You can actually just sort of be handed community. Some people with certain kinds of family have community in their family and it's not something they built, they were born to it. There are similar things with be invited/accepted into certain existing communities, by virtue of where you go to school or where you live or having certain qualities or abilities. You don't have to build those communities, they already exist. But you do have to earn admission, which sometimes is a fair process and sometimes is more about luck.

You can also put effort into building community and have it not happen. Sometimes you just don't have the right personality or skills. You can't build a community on your own if people just aren't drawn to you or you just don't have certain people skills. I've watched people try to do this and it's painful.

Anyway, I think better advice is to seek out community, whether it's an existing community you can join or maybe people in your life who could be gathered together to form community somehow. Or changing your idea of what it looks like -- maybe it's more of a loose coalition of neighbors, maybe it's the parents from school who you'll never be best friends with but who could be a parenting community. But the idea that the only way to have community is to build it yourself from scratch is actually really awful advice, because that is simply not achievable for many people and it's not necessary for others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a mom of older kids, I'm confused why everyone things the pandemic told them something new. Yes the pandemic sucked but we weren't supported before the pandemic either.

Yeah but the pandemic shook up the delicate balance we had to manage. My kids’ preschool closed for a while and then drastically cut hours to put kids in cohorts when they reopened. Then instead of the usual burning through PTO for routine illnesses, we were all hemorrhaging leave for 10 day quarantines often while our kids were perfectly healthy. Or if we were “lucky” told we could catch up on work at night, which isn’t really sustainable. The icing on the cake was the total shutdown of places like playgrounds so we were truly stuck at home going crazy, no play dates, no mom group meetups, etc.

So not only did we not have support, but we also had societal factors coming together to make things even harder.

Some of you act like you were uniquely affected by the pandemic. Talk to families with teens and high school teachers…rampant mental health issues amongst that age group. High school and college years derailed.
Or talk to nursing home personnel (I volunteer at one)….the isolation and feelings of abandonment for many elderly, including people approaching death with no access to loved ones was horrible. I get that many of you are not in a good place, but so are other people. Please stop acting as if you were uniquely victimized by the pandemic. Some of you have no fricken clue.

Please stop telling people how to feel, or rather how they’re allowed to feel, based on the fact that others may have had it worse. (And you truly have no idea the extent to what ANY posters have gone through.) Please try to have a little empathy.

I think that’s what saddens me the most about covid. What a missed opportunity for self-reflection and the development of a more functional, loving, supportive society. Instead, hypercapitalism has run amok and nobody knows how to function “normally” anymore, because it seems there’s no baseline anymore. It’s awful.

What does this actually mean and look like IRL for your average working parent? Free daycares? Relatives babysitting your kids? Long maternity leaves?

I don’t quite get the “support” everyone is saying that they need. Raising kids is hard work and I don’t see how support can make it all that easier. Maternity leave has to eventually end and even a free daycare has its many challenges.

If you want an easier life, be a SAHM but that comes with its own set of challenges.

Did you really just say that you don't understand why people want "support" or how it would make anything easier? WTF?

Yes, I did and I notice you didn’t respond to my specific question.

What does this support look like? My assumption is you want others to provide you with *free labor.*. By others I mean mostly women. You want the government to provide you childcare, grandparents to babysit, neighbors to pitch in, other employees to pick up your slack at work, etc.

DP. No, what I think we need is a return to community. This could be organized by community centers or by neighborhoods or by organizations. There are already groups who do this, including schools, local businesses, civic centers, and other groups - but while this used to be a mainstay of American life, it no longer is and people are insular, isolated, and unhappy.

In order to implement this, it requires two things: organizers and organizees - people need to be show up, attend, in order to be part of the group. We're all very independent-minded but it's hurting us. We need to become a bit more community-minded.

No one is gonna give you a community. You have to build it. It takes time and effort. You have to give of yourself to receive something back. If you want a community then make one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a mom of older kids, I'm confused why everyone things the pandemic told them something new. Yes the pandemic sucked but we weren't supported before the pandemic either.

Yeah but the pandemic shook up the delicate balance we had to manage. My kids’ preschool closed for a while and then drastically cut hours to put kids in cohorts when they reopened. Then instead of the usual burning through PTO for routine illnesses, we were all hemorrhaging leave for 10 day quarantines often while our kids were perfectly healthy. Or if we were “lucky” told we could catch up on work at night, which isn’t really sustainable. The icing on the cake was the total shutdown of places like playgrounds so we were truly stuck at home going crazy, no play dates, no mom group meetups, etc.

So not only did we not have support, but we also had societal factors coming together to make things even harder.

Some of you act like you were uniquely affected by the pandemic. Talk to families with teens and high school teachers…rampant mental health issues amongst that age group. High school and college years derailed.
Or talk to nursing home personnel (I volunteer at one)….the isolation and feelings of abandonment for many elderly, including people approaching death with no access to loved ones was horrible. I get that many of you are not in a good place, but so are other people. Please stop acting as if you were uniquely victimized by the pandemic. Some of you have no fricken clue.

Please stop telling people how to feel, or rather how they’re allowed to feel, based on the fact that others may have had it worse. (And you truly have no idea the extent to what ANY posters have gone through.) Please try to have a little empathy.

I think that’s what saddens me the most about covid. What a missed opportunity for self-reflection and the development of a more functional, loving, supportive society. Instead, hypercapitalism has run amok and nobody knows how to function “normally” anymore, because it seems there’s no baseline anymore. It’s awful.

What does this actually mean and look like IRL for your average working parent? Free daycares? Relatives babysitting your kids? Long maternity leaves?

I don’t quite get the “support” everyone is saying that they need. Raising kids is hard work and I don’t see how support can make it all that easier. Maternity leave has to eventually end and even a free daycare has its many challenges.

If you want an easier life, be a SAHM but that comes with its own set of challenges.

Did you really just say that you don't understand why people want "support" or how it would make anything easier? WTF?

Yes, I did and I notice you didn’t respond to my specific question.

What does this support look like? My assumption is you want others to provide you with *free labor.*. By others I mean mostly women. You want the government to provide you childcare, grandparents to babysit, neighbors to pitch in, other employees to pick up your slack at work, etc.

DP. No, what I think we need is a return to community. This could be organized by community centers or by neighborhoods or by organizations. There are already groups who do this, including schools, local businesses, civic centers, and other groups - but while this used to be a mainstay of American life, it no longer is and people are insular, isolated, and unhappy.

In order to implement this, it requires two things: organizers and organizees - people need to be show up, attend, in order to be part of the group. We're all very independent-minded but it's hurting us. We need to become a bit more community-minded.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm pissed this thread became a pile-on of a bunch of people telling anyone talking about their struggles that actually they don't have struggles and should stop talking about it. I think a lot of you have MAJOR issues that this is how you choose to spend your time.

Anyway, I'm going to go through and report a bunch of these comments as off-tope and ask Jeff to clean up the thread because I actually do think it could be a source of support and commiseration for people who need it. If that's not you, you can go away. Thanks!

I'm convinced these are the same people who, during the height of pandemic shutdowns, daycare closures, indefinite remote learning, etc., were telling anyone who had a hard time that their children were "thriving." Completely pathological.

To OP and the rest of us who feel similarly: you/we aren't alone. Hang in there.

Thank you.

I don't get what's happening in the thread. I feel like I became a punching bag for people who are mad about something but I don't even know what.

You're welcome. I think it really is the same "we're THRIVING" people, the ones who either had no empathy to begin with or who lost it due to the stressors of COVID. They're putting you/us down to make themselves feel better, and because you're the OP, they're going after you. I've been there, too, and it's awful and unfair.

One thing that's helped me some is a book called "Real Self-Care," by Pooja Lakshmin. She's a psychiatrist with expertise in treating women, and the book talks explicitly about societal failures to support women and also how to work on putting yourself not last. It's a fairly quick read and for me, was worth it. Not that I have my groove back, but it's given me a bit of hope, even amidst my cynicism.

Thank you, I'll check out that book. It sounds on point.

I've been thinking about this whole idea of "putting myself last" this afternoon and one thing that strikes me is how at some point, I made a lot of my "me" things stuff that is useful for the family. Like among my hobbies: baking, organizing, deep cleaning. Seriously. And I do actually enjoy those things. But sometimes DH will take our kid to a playground on a Saturday morning so that I can deep clean the bathrooms, and then in the afternoon he'll go for a long bike ride by himself. And in a way we both got our alone time to do something we enjoy, but.... cleaning a bathroom is not the same as going for a bike ride. But I literally don't have the equivalent of that long bike ride, that thing that gets me out of the house and away from all the responsibilities there and that is purely for enjoyment and for me and not for everyone else, too. It's sad.

And I did use to have that stuff. I used to have an expensive, impractical hobby that took me away and was really just for me. But I think the ship has sailed on it (I don't want to go back and it's even more expensive now and just blah) but I haven't replaced it and I don't even know how because I'm so out of touch with what even makes me happy at this point. It's like "I'm happy when the chores are done and we know what we're having for dinner and my kid is getting her needs met." So I spend all my time doing that, but that's really not "me time" you know?

Read in the bathtub! Enjoy your clean bathroom with some nice bath bombs and a good book. I have a hard time finding hobbies I can fit in, but a relaxing bath and a good book (maybe even a cup of tea) feels like me time that I can actually manage to fit in. You could also look for a book club if you want something social but not unreasonably demanding.

I've never been a "hobby person"; my me time consists of working out, reading, and listening to podcasts. Maybe start with more things like that. Your DD is in kindergarten, right? have you thought about getting more involved in her school -- the PTA, volunteer to be a room parent... Would your DD like to play a rec sport (soccer usually in the fall) -- this is a nice way to meet parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm pissed this thread became a pile-on of a bunch of people telling anyone talking about their struggles that actually they don't have struggles and should stop talking about it. I think a lot of you have MAJOR issues that this is how you choose to spend your time.

Anyway, I'm going to go through and report a bunch of these comments as off-tope and ask Jeff to clean up the thread because I actually do think it could be a source of support and commiseration for people who need it. If that's not you, you can go away. Thanks!

I'm convinced these are the same people who, during the height of pandemic shutdowns, daycare closures, indefinite remote learning, etc., were telling anyone who had a hard time that their children were "thriving." Completely pathological.

To OP and the rest of us who feel similarly: you/we aren't alone. Hang in there.

Thank you.

I don't get what's happening in the thread. I feel like I became a punching bag for people who are mad about something but I don't even know what.

You're welcome. I think it really is the same "we're THRIVING" people, the ones who either had no empathy to begin with or who lost it due to the stressors of COVID. They're putting you/us down to make themselves feel better, and because you're the OP, they're going after you. I've been there, too, and it's awful and unfair.

One thing that's helped me some is a book called "Real Self-Care," by Pooja Lakshmin. She's a psychiatrist with expertise in treating women, and the book talks explicitly about societal failures to support women and also how to work on putting yourself not last. It's a fairly quick read and for me, was worth it. Not that I have my groove back, but it's given me a bit of hope, even amidst my cynicism.

Thank you, I'll check out that book. It sounds on point.

I've been thinking about this whole idea of "putting myself last" this afternoon and one thing that strikes me is how at some point, I made a lot of my "me" things stuff that is useful for the family. Like among my hobbies: baking, organizing, deep cleaning. Seriously. And I do actually enjoy those things. But sometimes DH will take our kid to a playground on a Saturday morning so that I can deep clean the bathrooms, and then in the afternoon he'll go for a long bike ride by himself. And in a way we both got our alone time to do something we enjoy, but.... cleaning a bathroom is not the same as going for a bike ride. But I literally don't have the equivalent of that long bike ride, that thing that gets me out of the house and away from all the responsibilities there and that is purely for enjoyment and for me and not for everyone else, too. It's sad.

And I did use to have that stuff. I used to have an expensive, impractical hobby that took me away and was really just for me. But I think the ship has sailed on it (I don't want to go back and it's even more expensive now and just blah) but I haven't replaced it and I don't even know how because I'm so out of touch with what even makes me happy at this point. It's like "I'm happy when the chores are done and we know what we're having for dinner and my kid is getting her needs met." So I spend all my time doing that, but that's really not "me time" you know?

Read in the bathtub! Enjoy your clean bathroom with some nice bath bombs and a good book. I have a hard time finding hobbies I can fit in, but a relaxing bath and a good book (maybe even a cup of tea) feels like me time that I can actually manage to fit in. You could also look for a book club if you want something social but not unreasonably demanding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, good lord! Covid is over and people need to stop blaming their problems on covid! Everyone went through the same thing but most of us coped without whining and complaining. OP, et al, GROW UP!

Yeah, you coped by going to anonymous message boards and criticizing people who were having a hard time. And you're supposed to be the positive example?

PS - everyone did not go through the same thing, not even close

Right because quite a few of us had not replied on schools, teachers, housekeepers, nannies, to take care of our lives,! Covid was an opportunity to get back to living and take charge of our lives. Too bad so many of you weren't able to figure this out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm pissed this thread became a pile-on of a bunch of people telling anyone talking about their struggles that actually they don't have struggles and should stop talking about it. I think a lot of you have MAJOR issues that this is how you choose to spend your time.

Anyway, I'm going to go through and report a bunch of these comments as off-tope and ask Jeff to clean up the thread because I actually do think it could be a source of support and commiseration for people who need it. If that's not you, you can go away. Thanks!

I'm convinced these are the same people who, during the height of pandemic shutdowns, daycare closures, indefinite remote learning, etc., were telling anyone who had a hard time that their children were "thriving." Completely pathological.

To OP and the rest of us who feel similarly: you/we aren't alone. Hang in there.

Thank you.

I don't get what's happening in the thread. I feel like I became a punching bag for people who are mad about something but I don't even know what.

You're welcome. I think it really is the same "we're THRIVING" people, the ones who either had no empathy to begin with or who lost it due to the stressors of COVID. They're putting you/us down to make themselves feel better, and because you're the OP, they're going after you. I've been there, too, and it's awful and unfair.

One thing that's helped me some is a book called "Real Self-Care," by Pooja Lakshmin. She's a psychiatrist with expertise in treating women, and the book talks explicitly about societal failures to support women and also how to work on putting yourself not last. It's a fairly quick read and for me, was worth it. Not that I have my groove back, but it's given me a bit of hope, even amidst my cynicism.

Thank you, I'll check out that book. It sounds on point.

I've been thinking about this whole idea of "putting myself last" this afternoon and one thing that strikes me is how at some point, I made a lot of my "me" things stuff that is useful for the family. Like among my hobbies: baking, organizing, deep cleaning. Seriously. And I do actually enjoy those things. But sometimes DH will take our kid to a playground on a Saturday morning so that I can deep clean the bathrooms, and then in the afternoon he'll go for a long bike ride by himself. And in a way we both got our alone time to do something we enjoy, but.... cleaning a bathroom is not the same as going for a bike ride. But I literally don't have the equivalent of that long bike ride, that thing that gets me out of the house and away from all the responsibilities there and that is purely for enjoyment and for me and not for everyone else, too. It's sad.

And I did use to have that stuff. I used to have an expensive, impractical hobby that took me away and was really just for me. But I think the ship has sailed on it (I don't want to go back and it's even more expensive now and just blah) but I haven't replaced it and I don't even know how because I'm so out of touch with what even makes me happy at this point. It's like "I'm happy when the chores are done and we know what we're having for dinner and my kid is getting her needs met." So I spend all my time doing that, but that's really not "me time" you know?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, good lord! Covid is over and people need to stop blaming their problems on covid! Everyone went through the same thing but most of us coped without whining and complaining. OP, et al, GROW UP!

Yeah, you coped by going to anonymous message boards and criticizing people who were having a hard time. And you're supposed to be the positive example?

PS - everyone did not go through the same thing, not even close

Right because quite a few of us had not replied on schools, teachers, housekeepers, nannies, to take care of our lives,! Covid was an opportunity to get back to living and take charge of our lives. Too bad so many of you weren't able to figure this out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, good lord! Covid is over and people need to stop blaming their problems on covid! Everyone went through the same thing but most of us coped without whining and complaining. OP, et al, GROW UP!

Yeah, you coped by going to anonymous message boards and criticizing people who were having a hard time. And you're supposed to be the positive example?

PS - everyone did not go through the same thing, not even close